Will this setup burn my house down?

[Wpence]

Good evening everyone, new guy here with a question. My dad ran an indoor wood furnace for 30 years and had one chimney fire ( burned too green of wood, learned his lesson though). He has since switched to his dream outdoor wood furnace. My wife and I recently bought and renovated a house and wanted to heat with wood. We found a used England Indoor Wood Furnace. Model: WH2800. I like the design of the furnace. I’ve got it all hooked up but am a newb when it comes to setting these up and wanted to post a couple pics for y’all to weigh in on. The connection for the chimney is a little high up the wall for my liking (and a little close to the electrical panel ) but it can’t be moved without major work. I took out the clay liner in the chimney and installed a new insulated flexible stainless one. The insurance inspector took some pics and they never made a fuss about it but they also acted like they had never seen on before. House inspector also didn’t seem concerned but also not sure how much they know about these. Does this setup look ok or am I fixin to burn my house down? Thanks for your input!

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

You need to use chimney pipe!

The adjustable elbows are not suitable!

 

[Wpence]

You need to use chimney pipe!

The adjustable elbows are not suitable!

Ok, fair enough. After some research it seems the adjustable ones can let air in. I’ll look into replacing them with fixed elbows. It’s weird though cause I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stove installed without them so your reply kinda took me by surprise. Plus I bought them in the same gauge stainless as the stovepipe so I thought I was doing better than most who use the black stovepipe. But thanks for bringing it up. That’s why I wanted other people to look at this.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Insurance and home inspectors will surprisingly have little knowledge about most wood burning appliances. If you are looking for peace of mind I would have a certified to installer/sweep take a look at it. Do you know if that elbow is made of galvanized steel? That would be a pretty big no no to start with

 

[stoveliker]

It all that is stainless (I don't think the elbow is galvanized), and the foil is just around some ceramic (!not glass fiber!) insulation, then I think the pipe is safe.

Chimney pipe is only used outside or after any wall or ceiling penetration.

However, is the pipe single wall? Clearance.to combustibles is larger for those and I am not sure that insulation is a code compliant way to decrease that.

Also,.you have to have I believe 3 ft of clear space in front of the electric panel. You could move your furnace to the right (making a combo angle elbow up and sideways and adding one at the wall too - and for the air ducts too). These inspectors often don't know the requirements for other (wood appliance vs electric) fields... (As I have experienced).

 

[brenndatomu]

You need to use chimney pipe!

The adjustable elbows are not suitable!

What?
That's SS stovepipe I think...better install than most.
Looks good to me.

 

[EbS-P]

The only possible issue I see the clearance to the joist from the thimble. And the single wall stove pipe clearance to the same rim joist. How did the thimble look when you installed the pipe any cracks?

Edit… fixed it.

 

[stoveliker]

clearance to the joint from the thimbal.

Just to avoid confusion for the OP: joist and thimble

 

[EbS-P]

Just to avoid confusion for the OP: joist and thimble

Thanks….

 

[coaly]

Ok, fair enough. After some research it seems the adjustable ones can let air in. I’ll look into replacing them with fixed elbows. It’s weird though cause I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stove installed without them so your reply kinda took me by surprise. Plus I bought them in the same gauge stainless as the stovepipe so I thought I was doing better than most who use the black stovepipe. But thanks for bringing it up. That’s why I wanted other people to look at this.

Connector pipe is used from appliance to chimney. Stainless is even better than steel black painted pipe normally used. The only code requirement is 24 gauge minimum with 3 screws at each joint.

Single wall requires 18 inches to combustible material US, or can be reduced to 6 with approved ventilated shielding, or double wall close clearance pipe can be used down to 6 inch minimum.

It cannot pass through combustible wall, ceiling or roof. That is what Class A chimney pipe is for, including outside where insulation around inner flue pipe is required.

 

[Wpence]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Yes, all the flue components (including the connector pipe from the stove to the chimney) are stainless. Can’t remember the gauge off the top of my head but I’m pretty sure it’s heavier than 24. All connections are secured with 3 screws. For the clearance of the actual appliance I followed the manufactures recommendations. But the stove pipe is a different story. I really don’t like how high the thimble is (and its proximity to wood) but didn’t see any way to change it. The inside looked fine when I installed the new liner. The tee snout from the liner basically stuck the whole way through the wall anyway. But the house was built in the 60s and I don’t trust the building codes they had in this area at that time. The pipe is single wall. The insulation you see was leftover ceramic wrap from the new liner. I think Wisco is probably right that I should have a pro come look at it. I didn’t have great luck finding any local when I was looking at redoing the chimney liner but maybe I should expand my search. It would certainly be worth the peace of mind.
So what I’m gathering is that there are some less than ideal things going on and I should probably consult with a local pro about it. I think I would feel better having a double walled stovepipe so maybe they can hook me up with what I need there. Thanks!

 

[brenndatomu]

Thanks for all the input everyone. Yes, all the flue components (including the connector pipe from the stove to the chimney) are stainless. Can’t remember the gauge off the top of my head but I’m pretty sure it’s heavier than 24. All connections are secured with 3 screws. For the clearance of the actual appliance I followed the manufactures recommendations. But the stove pipe is a different story. I really don’t like how high the thimble is (and its proximity to wood) but didn’t see any way to change it. The inside looked fine when I installed the new liner. The tee snout from the liner basically stuck the whole way through the wall anyway. But the house was built in the 60s and I don’t trust the building codes they had in this area at that time. The pipe is single wall. The insulation you see was leftover ceramic wrap from the new liner. I think Wisco is probably right that I should have a pro come look at it. I didn’t have great luck finding any local when I was looking at redoing the chimney liner but maybe I should expand my search. It would certainly be worth the peace of mind.
So what I’m gathering is that there are some less than ideal things going on and I should probably consult with a local pro about it. I think I would feel better having a double walled stovepipe so maybe they can hook me up with what I need there. Thanks!

That liner insulation you put on the pipe is rated to take the CTC (clearance to combustibles) requirement down to 2"...but if you like to wear a belt and suspenders, you can fabricate a heat shield to mount on the wall between the top of the pipe and the framing, just cut a piece of stove pipe in half to make a half moon shape, mount that to the wall 3-4" away from the pipe, that takes your CTC down 50%, so even uninsulated single wall pipe goes from a requirement of 18", down to 9".
If you already passed inspection, I personally would not worry about the electrical panel at all (unless it's closer than it looks)
That Englander furnace is a decent lil unit...if you do a Google search on that furnace/hearth.com, you'll find a ton of tips on running them, etc!

 

[brenndatomu]

That heat duct that you tied the Englander into, does that have 2" clearance to the floor joists? If not I'd try to lower it a lil bit...or if too much PITA to move, make a heat shield to go midway between the duct and that joist that's directly above the Englanders heat duct/pipe (and maybe the next ones to the left and right too)
Reason being, if the power goes out right when a new load of wood is just rippin hot, and that blower can't run, you would be surprised how hot that duct can get! And if it happens repeatedly over the years, pyrolysis can come into play...you'll hear the old timers say "it's been fine that way for 30 years"...yup, until one day it wasn't.

 

[brenndatomu]

Oh, and one other thing I thought of, is the clay thimble still in the wall, or did it leave with the clay chimney liner?
If it's still there, was there room to slide some of that insulation over the snout where it passes through the wall?
If it goes through the clay thimble tight with no insulation, you'll find that spot to be one that runs cold and accumulates creosote a little there

 

[bholler]

The only issue I see is that you only have 8" of masonry (probably with open cores) between the crock and the sill plate. Inthe event of a chimney fire that sill plate could easily see enough heat to ignite.

 

[brenndatomu]

The only issue I see is that you only have 8" of masonry (probably with open cores) between the crock and the sill plate. Inthe event of a chimney fire that sill plate could easily see enough heat to ignite.

Open block cores, didn't think of that!
Good place to mortar in a piece of insulated double wall chimney pipe to pass the snout through?

 

[bholler]

Open block cores, didn't think of that!
Good place to mortar in a piece of insulated double wall chimney pipe to pass the snout through?

Yup that's my normal approach. Even if that block was solid it's not the required 12" but I would be less concerned about it if it was solid.

 

[Wpence]

Thanks for all the help y’all! Places like this give me hope for the internet.
There is almost two inches between the ductwork and the joists. I think I would feel better with some extra protection though and moving it down isn’t a great option due to several factors. . I have some cement board that came with the stove so I’m going to try to install that as a heat shield between the two. It might be over kill but I’m the type of guy that would wear a belt and suspenders. 😂
As far as the stove pipe thimble… it was a tight fit for the tee snout to go through. I feel pretty comfortable with the stovepipe other than the proximity to the sill. I’m thinking the best option may be to knock out the old thimble and install a double wall thimble. But I’m gonna try to get a pro out here to look at it and maybe they can supply me with the needed parts or offer a better idea.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all the help y’all! Places like this give me hope for the internet.
There is almost two inches between the ductwork and the joists. I think I would feel better with some extra protection though and moving it down isn’t a great option due to several factors. . I have some cement board that came with the stove so I’m going to try to install that as a heat shield between the two. It might be over kill but I’m the type of guy that would wear a belt and suspenders. 😂
As far as the stove pipe thimble… it was a tight fit for the tee snout to go through. I feel pretty comfortable with the stovepipe other than the proximity to the sill. I’m thinking the best option may be to knock out the old thimble and install a double wall thimble. But I’m gonna try to get a pro out here to look at it and maybe they can supply me with the needed parts or offer a better idea.

Yeah I see absolutely no problem with the pipe other than through the wall

 

[begreen]

You need to use chimney pipe!

The adjustable elbows are not suitable!

Not within the room envelope. Stove pipe is ok here. bholler brings up a very good point about the thimble through the hollow block wall. An insulated thimble would be better.