Will there be another big rush this year to change to wood heat?

[Backwoods Savage]

This year I am reminded of the 1970's with the cost of gas and oil shooting skyward. Back then, here in Michigan it seemed almost everyone and his brother were installing wood heat. It was great because it surely cleaned up a bunch of fence rows and got a lot of dead or dying wood out of some woodlots. Even State and Federal lands got cleaned up a lot.

However, over time it seems a big majority went back to heating the old way. Probably most found it too much work and lots of ladies did not like the mess. Now we are faced with another very expensive heating season.

How does everyone feel about this year? Will there be another big push to install wood heat?

On another note, around this area there has been a huge installation of the outdoor furnaces over the past 3 or 4 years and also lots of pellet stoves. Last year the corn burners seemed big. Now with the price of corn over $3 instead of $1.50 the corn burners have slowed but the outdoor furnaces and pellet stoves are going great. But the outdoor furnaces are having lots of problems with leakage too. One of our neighbors is on his third one and this is only his third year

 

[JohnnyBravo]

i can see it comming, while it is initilay expenceive to set up a lot of people see it as cheep heat. the only problem is that most of those stoves and chimnies from the 70s are still out there and may not be in the best of repair. hopefully people don't try to cut costs and just stick a new stove under a suspect chimney. i think the cost these days make for some unsafe install desisions.

 

[gpcollen1]

I think many folks just think it is too much work to run a wood stove 24/7 in the winter, even for part-time heat. Many I know have turned to pellet stoves. Easy, cleaner in the house and wife friendly. I try and point out that with a bit of planning, doing the wood thing is not too bad and great excercise during a time of year that we slow down a bit...

Most of the show rooms around here are full of pellet stoves with less and less woodstoves. One of the folks I spoke too said most of the woodstoves he sells are for replacing old outdated stoves and not for new installs.

I suppose it will depend on where you live. In Rockland County , NY. last year they were trying to ban outdoor wood furnace/boilers. Do not know where that got to...

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think $3 per gallon home heating oil is the trigger for many people. People seem to have disposable income, especially when it comes to making this kind of long-term investment, so I think you'll see a big push towards wood as the fuel bills start to arrive.

On a related not, there's a big stack of bagged pellets at a tractor supply place on my way to work. The sign in big letters proclaims "$245 per ton." That may be more than coal.

 

[elkimmeg]

The construction industry is so depressed that activity is almost non existent. I can tell you permits for new stoves is down below last year except one or two after a tax free weekend.

Everybody hoped and expected the Sept rush. well it remained warmer than normal and it never materialized. Most stoves are $2k investment factoring installation and venting the ones most effected by energy cost spike don't have a spare $2k kicking around for a stove they are living day to day or week to week. IT'S almost too late into the season for the rush

Another factor pellets cost are high now and try finding real seasoned wood just about impossible around here now.

another factor was so many bought right after the Katrina disaster and now they are not in the market. What is happening is the economy is killing sales. One would think the high fossil fuel cost would trigger sales ,but so far that has not happened. Steel cost and stainless steel has increased and pushed stove cost up. as much as $250 per stove ,in just a couple of years.

I waiting for the rush but its getting late in the game

love Hillary's new campaign slogan "turn up the heat" don't we all wish it was that simple?

 

[emory]

People will do whatever is cheapest. If the barriers to entry are low, ie: available flue, then I think you will see people jumping over. For those who don't it may take a bit longer to make the switch but ultimately if the costs of fuels continue to trend over a 3-5 year period in the same direction then that will dictate where they go.

 

[swestall]

I like the comment which introduces the wife factor. Unless it is in their blood, they think "we are nuts, these things are messy and why do we have to do this when we could get pellets, etc." That would be a quote from my wife. She doesn't realize that we are only burning 325 gal oil a year which includes hot water production and supplementing the Woodstove when we are away. In New England many folks are using 300 gal + a month during the cold season and some again in the spring/fall. If you pay 3.00 gal and use 1200 + gal that's $3600 in anyone's book. So, $900+or- and some wood is a better deal. Not to mention that the house is a constant 72+or- degrees versus hot/cold and keep that thermostat down because we can't afford the oil. At $100 a barrel our country is in trouble. Sooner or later the oil that is in everything has to have an impact on the cost of producing and delivering everything: when it does you will see a return to the inflationary spiraling of wages and costs. To make matters worse, the expansion of the economy to a worldwide basis impacting the value of the dollar will make your pay worth a lot less. (the best example yet is the price of gas,fuel oil, etc.) The increasing world demand for the product is what is enabling traders to push the price ever higher: not just you and me now we have demand in China, India, Mexico and everywhere else on the planet. Because, they moved our production there for cheap labor and the cycle is coming full circle: with a cheaper dollar we are becomming cheap labor from a comparative viewpoint.
So yes, we will see an increase in demand for alternative fuels (wood/pellets/coal/etc) here in the USA. Historically the People of the US (have to stay warm) the will get very resourceful when under the pressure of $4.00 or $5.00 per gallon. And, don't let anyone kid you that is exactly where the folks that make the money are taking this.

 

[woodconvert]

"The construction industry is so depressed that activity is almost non existent. I can tell you permits for new stoves is down below last year except one or two after a tax free weekend."

I know quite a few that have caught up with the times and burn....but none of them pulled permits. Permits here in Michigan, unless you are in a city, well....a lot gets done without them. From what i've seen most are pretty handy so they do good installations. They certainly go the distance to not burn their homes down.

That said, I have no clue what heating oil is going for here. I do know that propane is over $3/gallon and a face cord of "seasoned hardwood" is anywhere from $55-$65 with a few at $75.

I think if I lived out east and didn't want the mess or work of the wood and oil was prohibitive i'd have to say anthracite looks very appealing to me...and I may make the switch down the road (that would make for a nice road trip once a year!!)

 

[webbie]

I have to concur with Elk and say that a lot of people are being hard hit by the economy and cannot afford 3-5K stove installations. We can see here on the forums that folks are attempting to rescue old units "from the grave" and install them inexpensively. I think there is a great undercurrent of economic problems in this country, and although we may not all see it (after all, we are hanging out online!), lots of people are hurting.

Money is non-existent to borrow....even for previously good risks. My cc company send me an update this week, and I say the interest rate of something like 34% buried in there! Must be because of so many defaults. Luckily, I pay mine off.

 

[CK-1]

I think you will see more people with existing chimneys purchase pellet or wood burning stoves like last year. Its been a warmer than usually but we did have a cold spell for a few days.

 

[Ted69]

In my area of Canada..about an hour west of Toronto. The place I bought my wood stove the owner showed me his installation board for gas and wood appliances.
The next two months are booked solid for wood installs and very few gas. He said that was a huge change from previous years.
That will make getting cheap sources of wood harder.
Ted

 

[carpniels]

A client of mine just ordered oil. $3.11 a gallon in Upstate NY. He was not happy.

I am sure many people will be researching it, some will buy it and many will abandon it. The wood they buy is not well seasoned, the constant attention a stove needs, the learning curve to run it well, the fact that most houses are empty all day because everyone is working or in school, etc.

Many will try, few will stick with it.

carpniels

 

[jpl1nh]

I agree with Elk and Web about the difficulty people have cracking the big initial expense. What I know is that even at $250 a cord, I would be saving almost a grand a year in heating costs compared to oil. A2-4 year payback seems pretty reasonable if you can come up with the capital now. Don't know how many stove shops or companies can offer financing but that could help because the capital now is often a big issue. I think most folks who have some sort of wood stove/insert set up are definately going to be putting it to better use this year. And I agree that pellet stoves are definately booming. They too are a cost savings off of fossil fuel (at least now they are) and have all the above mentioned factors in their favor. I feel blessed to have a nice stove and lots of wood. My heating cost this winter will be close to zero! Hard not to be feeling pretty smug about it. I surely advocate to anyone that asks that wood is a great way to go. And fossil fuel is only going to cost more in the future.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I don't know--you see what people go into longterm debt to drive, and a $3,000 wood stove or $8,000 boiler starts to look like chicken feed. And at 10 or 20 percent of the cost of a new car, you get something that starts paying you back immediately--instead of costing you the minute you sign the papers. Even if you put it on a credit card, you can take what you save every month on oil or gas and use it to pay off the loan. Or you can give it to the fuel company.

What am I trying to do, convince you guys that wood is a good deal?

I'll stick my neck out and predict that more wood-burning appliances will be sold this year than last.

 

[webbie]

Eric, you didn't see that 34% cc notice they sent out recently (amendment to the agreement!).

The car is an extension of the ego more than a stove is. It is also 100% required in most places to live modern life.

I guess I am looking at this season (all in all) as a normal season. There is not really such thing, but there are many forces which affect the total sales. I agree that it may be better than last year (the entire fall/winter figured in), but will be worse than the year before (Katrina).

 

[dtabor]

My father, who burned wood and coal for years tells me all the time when he's at my place that Im absolutely crazy putting that much time and effort for burning wood...."All I have to do when I want heat is turn the dial".....and I say, yep, and open the checkbook! I also point out that when its below zero out this winter, and his power goes out so long that he can see his breath, he's welcome to head up to my place and sit by the stove and be warm

I get log length firewood for $800 for a 10-11 cord load. This will be my first winter with my new stove so Im not sure what I will use this winter but even if I use the entire 10 cord, for $800 Im still way ahead of the game compared to oil cost!

 

[littlalex]

Webmaster et al.

I don't think it's so much an undercurrent. I think most of us are aware of it. Your are right re: your comment that folks are attempting to rescue old units “from the grave.”

I suspect there are some others like myself cruising the board for info to do exactly what you said.

I don't feel pathetic about the following because i'm sure there are others on this board with similar issues.

I posted a while ago about a problem I had with a runaway fire, trying to use a '77 Vigilant that was in the new (downsized)
house we moved into 8 months ago. I got lots of feedback and useful information. But the fact remains it is an old stove (inefficient) that probably needs rebuilding (which doesn't make sense financially) and I would love to buy and Englander nc-13 or even a Century stove (low cost) But the stove has to be installed, the chimney/flue might have to be replaced and if you're two old retired farts like the old lady and myself with a very fixed income (SS) and no appreciable savings the thing does become difficult. We have credit, which is useless if you can't pay it back.

We've got a fine oil furnace, but the price of oil just passed $3.15. So i'm going to have to make do with the smoke dragon and hope
I don't burn down the house. 8^)

Littlalex

 

[Stevebass4]

Eric, you didn't see that 34% cc notice they sent out recently (amendment to the agreement!).

The car is an extension of the ego more than a stove is. It is also 100% required in most places to live modern life.

I guess I am looking at this season (all in all) as a normal season. There is not really such thing, but there are many forces which affect the total sales. I agree that it may be better than last year (the entire fall/winter figured in), but will be worse than the year before (Katrina).

what CC company would send out a notice of 34% ??!! i would guess that rate is for people who are in default because no one in their right mind would pay 34% interest.

Me, I think I have close to five cords done with another 7 cords of log length coming next week ($350.00 for the load)

Honestly at 3.15 a gallon even with the new furnace I really don’t think I could afford to heat my house with oil as warm and as comfortable as I am with a insert. Heck I am thinking of adding another stove in the basement to help keep the floors warm

 

[lobsta1]

I got the same notice about my CC going to a default rate of 34%. This is for a card I've had since 1978. It could also be that since I don't carry a balance they are trying to get rid of me.

I would also love to upgrade my old Russo smoke dragon. I am very handy, but the total cost of the stove plus relining my exterior masonry chimney is just way to much money. I think the reason my chimney stays so clean burning 24/7 is because the stove is so inefficient & keeps the chimney hot.
Al

 

[Bill]

I think the average person is to lazy to burn wood. I have free wood so for me it's a great value. But for someone from the city, with a smaller lot, limited time, I don't see wood burning in there future. Maybe a gas fireplace, with thermostat.

Today on the radio I heard them say that the Escalade (Giant SUV) sales are up 12 % this year. This defies logic, but it's true.

I can see more people insulating and turning down the thermostat, but you have to be the right person to like burning wood.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I also think the average person is too lazy to burn wood and that is one of the reasons pellet and corn burners have caught on. However, we also have to bear in mind all the folks who live in the city. Can you imagine what even a small city would be like if all heated with wood?! Sure makes me happy we live way out in the country, cut and haul our wood from our own woodlot and put the ashes on our vegetable gardens.

btw, we also are two old farts living on a fixed income (small at that) but we saved our coins and this summer built a new hearth, installed a Woodstock Fireview stove and also put up a new chimney. That should be the last time for this in our lifetime....I hope.

And would someone please explain to me what effect Katrina had on woodstove sales? I don't get it.

 

[tbl01]

I am having a wood stove installed this Friday. I cant wait!! One of the main driving forces is the price of oil.

I burn about 200 ga/month during an average winter. About 800-1000 per year. Two co- wokers just filled up at 3.22, and 3.32/ gallon.

My estimation is it will take one cold winter at these prices to recoup the cost of the stove. Maybe a little longer.

Wood costs for me vary. Working for a city I have access to free wood removed from storm damaged, decay etc. The neighbor has a tree removal service and will be suppling some free wood via this avenue. Many tree services just cant get rid of all the wood. Good resource is you can find a local guy. My time and labor is the $$ cost this season. Last resort is buying firewwod split and delivered. About $160/cord.

Basically depending how my first heating season goes, I will be able to plan better for next year. this year was late in season to do the insert route;however; is all coming together quickly.

Permits are another issue. I am quite sure many people skip this for various reasons, and might not be a good indicator of stoves being installed.

Im tired of paying crazy oil prices, and long for heat and warmth a real fire/ stove will provide. Wife grew up in a wood burning stove home so a non issue in that regard.

best,

Greg

 

[Eric Johnson]

Probably because of what Katrina did to oil and natural gas prices.

I see truckloads of OWBs on the highway all the time. Those things aren't cheap. They're moving. A minority of boiler users are hip to gasification but the numbers are growing. Maybe it's just my biased perspective, but I think a fair number of people who tolerated $2/gallon heating oil are drawing the line at $3 and making the necessary investment to get the oil monkey off their back for good. Obviously, these are motivated people with the resources to make it happen, but my point is that they represent a pretty big number. Most of them will buy OWBs, but a growing percentage will make the additional investment into gasification.

 

[jpl1nh]

As I'm driving around on my $2.95/gal gas in the Seacoast area of NH I certainly see an awful lot of woodpiles. They may not be bew stoves, but people are at least planning on using what they have.

 

[kalevi]

I paid $300 a cord. 5 face cords for $500 delivered in the summer. Using the fuel cost calculator on the hearth.com site, with my first oil delivery at $0.78/litre, 1 cord is equal to $500 of oil in energy output. I'm pretty much in the city but I have room to stack the 5 face cords on both sides of my house. I'm in an older neighborhood with decent size lots. I guess the newer houses where you have trouble getting a lawn mower between houses will give problems to storing wood.