VC Vigilant - Time to Replace?

[rmowens]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've been on this forum, but good to be back.

I've been heating our small, drafty NH modified schoolhouse for a few years with the old VC Vigilant that came with the place. The usual joys and complaints apply - cranks out the heat when you want it, but also when you don't, and eats a lot of wood. There are two current issues that make me think about modernizing: an imminent attic insulation project may make this beast too much stove for most of the year, and backpuffing has started to get out of control. I guess we'll just have to see what the insulation does, but I could use some advice on the backpuffing - my wife is getting freaked out by it.

The simplest explanation is that I too often stuff it and snuff it for the night too quickly, before the top of the load has adequately charred; my wood is fine (all hardwood), air vents are clean, and the 8" tile chimney is clean. When I simply give it more air for the night, though, I have no coals in the morning (actually, I have minimal coals no matter what I do). I'll work on my nighttime loading and air control habits, but the stove has several other issues that may be contributing to the problem. Would addressing any of these improve the situation?

1. Haven't done a thorough light test, but it's probably due a rebuild with new cement - it may never have been done and may be very leaky. Not relishing this idea. I replaced the door and griddle gaskets recently. What's the dollar bill test, by the way?

2. The one-piece fireback is cracked, though it's still intact.

3. The joint where the 8" double-wall pipe from the stove enters the chimney is just a simple single-wall male-to-male adapter, and I can hear air rushing into the joint when the draft is pulling hard (instead of pulling air through the stove, presumably). This joint, by the way, accumulates far more creosote than any other part of the system.

4. The oval-to-round adapter between stove and pipe is really just a short length of single-wall round that someone squashed into the needed shape. I can see light coming through where it stuffs into the stove. Assuming I should get the proper adapter, where can I find it?

So, while I know I should fix all this stuff, will it fix my nighttime backpuffing/no coals issue, OR should I just bite the bullet and upgrade to a modern stove that is right-sized for my soon-to-be insulated house?

Thanks, and happy burning.

 

[remkel]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've been on this forum, but good to be back.

I've been heating our small, drafty NH modified schoolhouse for a few years with the old VC Vigilant that came with the place. The usual joys and complaints apply - cranks out the heat when you want it, but also when you don't, and eats a lot of wood. There are two current issues that make me think about modernizing: an imminent attic insulation project may make this beast too much stove for most of the year, and backpuffing has started to get out of control. I guess we'll just have to see what the insulation does, but I could use some advice on the backpuffing - my wife is getting freaked out by it.

The simplest explanation is that I too often stuff it and snuff it for the night too quickly, before the top of the load has adequately charred; my wood is fine (all hardwood), air vents are clean, and the 8" tile chimney is clean. When I simply give it more air for the night, though, I have no coals in the morning (actually, I have minimal coals no matter what I do). I'll work on my nighttime loading and air control habits, but the stove has several other issues that may be contributing to the problem. Would addressing any of these improve the situation?

1. Haven't done a thorough light test, but it's probably due a rebuild with new cement - it may never have been done and may be very leaky. Not relishing this idea. I replaced the door and griddle gaskets recently. What's the dollar bill test, by the way?

The light test will help you determine if you have open joints on the stove. I used to run a lit match (or other small flame) along the joints to see if the flame got sucked into the joint indicating that there is an air leak. If you have been running it for a few years, and are not certain if the stove has ever been rebuilt, then I would suggest that it very well may be time for a rebuild. I have a copy of the rebuild manual if you would like it- just send me a PM with an e-mail address. The rebuild is not all that difficult and can usually be done in a few hours.

2. The one-piece fireback is cracked, though it's still intact.

I am assuming the crack is at the reburn chamber (lower right corner) and is moving west across the fireback. That is pretty common. If it is a tight crack it should not be of much concern. The single piece fireback is no longer available and has been replaced by a two piece fireback. They sell the kits which come with new side panels also. I burned mine for three years with a crack in the fireback before replacing the stove this summer with the Jotul.

3. The joint where the 8" double-wall pipe from the stove enters the chimney is just a simple single-wall male-to-male adapter, and I can hear air rushing into the joint when the draft is pulling hard (instead of pulling air through the stove, presumably). This joint, by the way, accumulates far more creosote than any other part of the system.

You can either get a better joint or use some stove cement to close the gap in the joint. The excessive creosote buildup is due to cold air coming in through the space at the joint. Been there, done that. Actually replaced my clay liner with SS liner because too much air was getting into the chimney (poor construction)

4. The oval-to-round adapter between stove and pipe is really just a short length of single-wall round that someone squashed into the needed shape. I can see light coming through where it stuffs into the stove. Assuming I should get the proper adapter, where can I find it?

My pipe was done the same way. Again, I used to close it off using some stove cement.

So, while I know I should fix all this stuff, will it fix my nighttime backpuffing/no coals issue, OR should I just bite the bullet and upgrade to a modern stove that is right-sized for my soon-to-be insulated house?

The backpuffing could be related to a lot of things- but I think what would solve the issue is what you already mentioned, allowing more air into the chamber. Another possible issue may be your chimney may have developed a blockage so you may want to have a look at that. A third reason I can think of is that your flue height may need to be extended. Is this happening all the time or just when there are windy nights? However, with all those thoughts, I think I would go back to #1. The snuffing of the fire may be creating a large amount of gas in the firebox which is suddenly igniting and causing the back puffing. Good luck and I hope you find the answers. I am certain others will chime in as there are a lot of old Vigilant burners here. I loved the old Vigilant, but when I went to redo the liner it made sense to do the whole system and upgrade to a newer stove.

Your lack of coals in the morning could be the result of joints letting excess air into the firebox thus burning them down to nothing. I used to have no problem with coals first thing in the morning. Again, a rebuild may be the answer here.

Thanks, and happy burning.

 

[remkel]

p.s. Welcome Back!

 

[defiant3]

Is your wood like really really dry? More than a year old dry? Dusty, like seasoned in the desert dry?

 

[remkel]

Is your wood like really really dry? More than a year old dry? Dusty, like seasoned in the desert dry?

DOH- sometimes the most obvious question is the one overlooked.....

 

[cmonSTART]

Like Defiant said, backpuffing is usually related to burning very dry wood on too low of a setting, causing a build up of combustible gases in the firebox which suddenly ignite. Is it possible these leaks in your venting system could be related? Sure. I suppose it's possible these leaks are reducing the draft through the stove just enough producing conditions favorable for backpuffing (letting the gases build up rather than going up the chimney.) Thankfully it's a pretty easy repair to make. Get a tube of gasket cement from your local hardware store and seal up your stovepipe connections, especially around the flue collar. If it doesn't help you're only out a couple bucks.

 

[Battenkiller]

I loved using my Vigilant for the last 2 1/2 years, but if I was in the situation you are describing I think I'd move on. Mine worked great for me because it was installed in the basement where I could really use its massive heat output. I ran it as hot as was prudent most of the time, so it ran clean but ate 5 cord of hardwood a year. If I had the same stove in the main living space I probably would have baked us to death even running it at lower temps. With your increased insulation I suspect you will find the heat extremes even more difficult to bear.

I'd put it on Craigslist for $300 - explaining clearly what it's problems are - and go out and buy a modern stove. Now that I'm moving out of here, that's exactly what I did with mine. Last burn in the old gal will be tonight. Then it's on to catalytic combustion for the rest of my years if I have my way.

 

[Kenster]

BK, kinda makes me sad to see another VC brother set her aside for new technology. I guess my situation is different. I don't need it as much down here, only going through a cord and a half or so a year. It's installed in our "Great Room," which is about 60 feet long and about 30 feet wide. Full cathedral ceiling with large, open lofts upstairs along the two long walls. The Vigilant easily heats all that space with enough left over to keep comfortable two downstairs bedrooms on one side of the house and a large kitchen/dining area on the other. The bedrooms are cooler than in the main part of the house but we like it like that.
Basically, our VC keeps our almost 4000 square foot house comfortable. I rarely ever light it unless the overnight temp is 40 degrees or lower.

I had a back puff just tonight. Very rare. I did a search and found this thread. I think I found the answer quickly enough. Tonight I am burning very, very dry pine. Like 7% dry. I got a quick, roaring fire going. The Griddle showed about 550 or so. Not a super cold night and we will have guests upstairs in the loft tonight. It can get quite warm up there so I'm not planning on a real hot fire. So, I threw it into horizontal and closed the thermo to about 1/4 open. Just a few seconds later I hear a big POOF and smoke (actually it seemed almost like steam that dissipated quickly) puffed out the thermo flap door. The conditions were just right as described in the above thread. Super dry wood, hot fire, quick dampening. There is no wind at all outside tonight so that is not a factor.

Merry Christmas, my Brothers!

 

[rmowens]

Thanks, all, for the helpful responses! Funny that everyone seems to have some connection to a place I've lived - quite a few here in good old southwest NH; Battenkiller, I assume, is "just outside the Blue Line" of the Adirondacks; and Kenster from near Houston (I lived briefly with my inlaws in Brazoria County, where I couldn't imagine ever being cold enough to want to burn something...though there was that freak white Christmas a few years back).

So, the joints do seem tighter than I had feared (did the match test), EXCEPT at the various stovepipe connections, which I'll work on. Still, Remkel, I will take you up on the rebuild plans - maybe a project for next summer. You were also exactly right about the location of the fireback crack, which I think I can live with. I think the flue height is plenty, as the backpuffing was never correlated to wind.

And it's definitely not over-dry wood! If anything, it ought to be a little drier, considering the wet summer.

Since posting and reading a bunch of threads, I've been a lot more conscious of how I'm managing the Vigilant, and I've not had a wisp of smoke since. Mostly I'm not stuffing it quite as full, I'm letting the top of the load char much longer before switching to horizontal, and I'm keeping the airflow slightly higher. Since, financially speaking, a new stove really isn't in the cards anytime soon, these practices and sealing the gaps ought to buy me plenty more time.

Happy New Year!
RMO

 

[Kenster]

Sounds like you have a good grasp of the workings of the Vigilant. You may end up deciding, like me, to keep it.
It's a great stove.

 

[remkel]

Great to hear things are going better.