VC Defiant NC stove

[dtabor]

Hello all, just found this forum. Wish I had found it sooner!!

I was looking around and saw a few threads on the nightmares of the Everburn System. I just purchased a new VC Defiant Noncat stove. It is still at the dealer until I get the install prepared. After reading the posts, Im wondering if I should!!

People speak of the "Dutchwest" Everburn but since its the same basic company, I was wondering what people could tell me of the Vermont Castings Defiant. I dont want to pay this much money, pay for the install and have nothing but problems using this thing!!

Thanks all

D

 

[Roospike]

VC Defiant ! RUN ! RUN wile you can ! :lol:

I'm sure there will be members along with experience with this mode ......

Welcome to the hearth forum dtabor .

 

[dtabor]

Roospike.....I HOPE you are just kidding....I thought I was making a good purchase..Id hate to find out Im screwed!!

 

[Roospike]

Is this the everburn model ?

 

[Roospike]

Here are some threads , dont know if you have read some or all but this should give you a start on VC Defiant .



CFM Vermont Castings Dutchwest Everburn Non-Cat Owners Discussion and Review Thread!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

Has anyone more info on the VC everburn stove - how does this thing work?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6331/

E-mail to VC about Everburn opperations
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6295/

 

[elkimmeg]

There have been no complaints about the NC defiant that I know of. All seem to be tied to the dutchwest line. Also we have never seen a complaint about a Cat defiant
Only ease of opperation long burn time. Ever wonder modern Defiants don't show up on Ebay often? Why sell a product that works so well, almost no one wants to part with it?

I can't say for sure the Nc stove is equally quality product as the Cat stove. They only started producing it this year. There is no history of users to draw from.

With new technology it may take a year or so to get reviews or iron out bugs. and perfect it..
ME, I would not hesitate to join the ranks of tried and true Cat Defiants. All those that had cat VC products, that bought the everburn technology. now wishes the everburn worked as well as the Cat stoves.. The Cat stoves plain deliver consistant results and are more draft forgiving than the everburn cats.

I'm sitting on a brand new everburn Encore in my shed I have not used, that will be donated. I am real tempted to use it to learn how to work the everburn technology and review it
I would have to get permission from VC as they gave it to me. If I did. I would install it this weekend . But My cat encore took my burning experience to another level. I wish I had purchesed it years ago.

 

[ansehnlich1]

I had a brand new Defiant Catalytic and it was a great stove. We had it vented into an exterior masonry chimney and it performed flawlessly.

As for the Defiant Everburn, I would not purchase one at this time myself. In fact, I have researched and shopped stoves for several months now, and have settled on a Hearthstone Phoenix.

I asked a local, trusted, experienced stove dealer about the VC Everburn technology. He said what Elk wrote here, it is new, he only has a few out in the field, and it has no track record as of yet in terms of how it performs.

 

[Roospike]

I thought said he bought a VC Defiant non-cat stove Elk?

I just purchased a new VC Defiant Noncat stove. It is still at the dealer until I get the install prepared. After reading the posts, Im wondering if I should!!

So what the difference of his stove to the cat stove you talk about Elk ? Is his noncat Defiant the one with problems ? Is there a Defiant noncat?

Also we have never seen a complait about a Cat defiant
Only ease of opperation long burn time. Ever wonder modern Defiants don't show up on Ebay often? Why sell a product that works so well, almost no one wants to part with it?

I can't say for sure the Nc cat stove is equally quality product as the Cat stove. They only started producing it this year. There is no history of users to draw from.

With new technology it may take a year or so to get reviews or iron out bugs. and perfect it..
ME, I would not hesitate to join the ranks of tried and true Cat Defiants. all thgoise that had cat VC products bough the everburn technology and wishes the everburn worked as well as the Cat stoves the Cat stoves plain deliver consistant results and are more draft forgiving than the everburn cats.

 

[Roospike]

(From Vermont Castings web site)

Vermont Castings NC Wood Stoves DEFIANT NC 1610

We call it the EVERBURN System and it’s designed to deliver cleaner emissions and longer burn times, similar to a catalytic system. Our state-of-the-art design enables Defiant and Encore stoves to burn more steadily and longer on a single load of wood compared to other non-catalytic stoves. So now you can enjoy all of the beauty and style of a traditional cast iron stove with a new level of convenience and efficiency. Just what you’d expect from Vermont Castings™.


(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=168)

***********************************************************************

According to the web site he did get the Vermont Castings EVERBURN System.
So would this be the same Everburn system that everybody is talking about with the issues?

 

[Todd]

Like Elk says, this is a new stove, too early to tell anything about this new technology. Time will tell. You will probably hear more bad news since the people that have no problems with them, are enjoying the heat and don't need to visit this forum to find out about any quick fixes. Is there any kind of warranty?

 

[elkimmeg]

Roo I try to be fair I support products tried and true with the recent question about the everburn technology which I have not trind or experienced I can not truefully address it.I asked VC to and so far only un related e-mail to me have they produced. I was hoping they would join here and explain and deal with the current post. I know one vocal poster watched his stove preformance threw thew space of his connector pipe. How valid it his oppinions when he had a huge connector pipe leak. He did admit that onece he corrected it the stove preformed better

I don't know if these are newbie errors that would occure with any stove they purchased and opperated I do not know if they had a clue as to how the ever burn stoves worked or if they had seasoned wood or a good draft system. We have seen PS sumits that can't deliver due to less than stellar installs. People like this are quick to blame the stove. We have seen poorly insulated drafty homes where the stove is dissed but after it was disclosed no stove could have delivered.. How much is user error or ignorance?

My suggestion to you is to get theVC cat Defiant It is a supurb stove. Don't listen to the naysayers about cat stoves everyone has never experienced the level of clean burning a cat delivers
None ever experience a cat stove but can expound old wifes tales about them. I own two VC cat stoves and they deliver. Oh the cat is expensive to replace? Over the life time that cat has saved it's worth in less wood burnt than other non cat stoves. What's $20 a year for one of the most effecient burning stoves? That's the cost of replacement .It saves that much in using less wood. I will be e-mailing VC again to explain how to use the Everburn technology I'm fair and I can not support it without first hand experience

 

[Gooserider]

Just like PE builds several models of stove with different outsides, but the same guts, VC uses the same basic Everburn system in several models. It looks like they are slowly moving away from the cat designs to the non-cat Everburn system; or at least gradually implementing Everburn models of all the existing cat lines. However there are some differences between the individual implementations as each stove is going to need it's own size of refractory parts to match the different firebox sizes.

I'm not able to comment on whether the different models perform differently, as I don't have the information, just that all are variations on the same basic design concept.

Gooserider

 

[mikeathens]

Roo I try to be fair I support products tried and true with the recent question about the everburn technology which I have not trind or experienced I can not truefully address it.I asked VC to and so far only un related e-mail to me have they produced. I was hoping they would join here and explain and deal with the current post. I know one vocal poster watched his stove preformance threw thew space of his connector pipe. How valid it his oppinions when he had a huge connector pipe leak. He did admit that onece he corrected it the stove preformed better

I assume you are talking about me here I am not even close to being a new wood burner, but the non-cat "everburn" system is difficult to operate. MUCH MUCH more than ANY catalytic I've used (including Dutchwest and my brother's Defiant). These posts helped me in resolving ONE of the problems I was having - that was the connector pipe gap. Please keep in mind that the same gap was NEVER a problem with my Dutchwest catalytic. It only became a problem with the everburn. My dealer never mentioned it, the chimney installer I hired to help me solve the problem never commented on it, and the manual sure as hell doesn't mention how critical this point is to seal. I mean, come on...the connectors are all made about the same, they are all crimped a couple of inches, and the VC makes their stoves so that the tabs in the flue collar leave 1" of crimp exposed? For any new everburn users, be sure to seal this gap!

Also, this corrected the "meltdown" problem I was having (at least for the next week before I got rid of it), but the thing continued to be incredibly finnicky about how it was loaded, the positioning of the logs, the direction you were facing when you lit the fire, etc (of course the last point is not true, but there were so many variables that made this stove difficult to operate efficiently). I was vocal about this stove, but I came here looking for answers to my problem, and I found them. I don't believe I ever blamed the stove for this particualr problem...this was the only place I had to turn to for help. It was important for me to resolve problems so that I could have a safe, efficient, and clean burn. My wood heat is important to me.

My new Hearthstone heritage was smoke-free and burning with nice blue flames within 20 minutes of my first fire. I have consistentely seen the same performance with all of my reloads. I put the wood in, get it back up to temp, and shut primary air. Simple as that. No adjusting and readjusting the logs for an hour until you're crazy like with the everburn dutchwest.

And elk...I know you are making a point and I agree with you. There are a lot of people quick to blame their stoves. I tend to think I'm not one of them. I know that some poeple on here seem to love the everburn stoves, but there are a lot that are having the same problems as me. I guess it just wasn't the right stove for me. Again, I never blamed the stove. But I do blame CFM for not even caring to respond to my questions. Sorry, but I felt somewhat attacked when I read your description of my problem. These posts have been an invaluable resource to me, and I hope that others can read what I (and others) have written and find some value in it.

 

[elkimmeg]

Mike I was talking about generalities nothing directed directly at you. If you hang out here long enough and i hope you do, almost all stoves will have some dissatisfied owner. And many times it turns out not the stove or manufacturer. It I were inspecting your stove and saw the flue collar connector pipe. It would have failed. No installer should have left it that way. Many stoves only recess 1" some manufactures make what is called a starter piece that is made just for this connection. On the other hand I gave you very good directions of how to get the best possible connection using the pipe you had. If not a draft issue but a safety issue, providing a leak should your stove back draft

Again I admit I have not tried the Everburn. It would not be the first time when a product is over engineered and too hard for the common user to work. Idon't know if this is the case.

Good luck with your new stove

PS I e-mailed VC again thursday still waiting a response . I cut and pasted your reply where you had enough and purched another manufactures stove.. It might be that they are just now being confronted with this issue and they don't have an answer yet. this would not be the first time a product was rolled out not ready fro prime time I thinking about windows when the firs security update is 2 days after the initial roll out. ITs one thing to design something and it looks good on paper but the user base can't figure it out. How are they going to describe how to use it to the masses till there is a large enough sampling using it. Guessing here, they did not know and are examining it now in terms of the user base. They test in Labs not homes.

 

[Towboat]

I bought a VC Encore non-cat last winter and have had great results with it. I had previously burned a Jotul 118 for 15 plus years and saw marked improvements for burn time, heat output etc when I started using the VC stove. My parents purchased a Jotul Oslo same time last year as my VC so I have had the good fortune to compare actual burn charactaristics of stoves side by side.
1) Jotul Oslo is somewhat easier to operate. Throw wood in and burn. VC you have to open damper bring up to 500 plus degrees then close damper-not hard but an extra step.
2) VC stove is TOP LOADING, so easy to load wood compared to Jotul. Lots of wood ash at my folks house-no ashes on my floor! The VC is very clean operationaly, very little if any dust from stove. A very good ash removal system. Jotul is ok, but messy.
3) Jotul does not have Andirons in front of glass door, VC does. I do worry about my parents stove, filling up for the night--log striking/breaking glass?
4) Finish on both stoves is beautiful porcelain.
5) I have learned the VC encore is very sensitive to draft ie. high pressure atmosphere vs. low pressure storm on the way----- if you have a good chimney arrangement & draft, the stove will burn very well, in fact most of the time when stove is really chugging along, the air supply damper is closed all way down and stove burns nice steady 550-600 degrees. Once you get fire up to 500 degree and close discharge damper it is amazing how steady the stove will burn at a 500-600 degrees. Very steady temperature. After initially closing discharge damper you will here a deep rumble in back of stove, not drastic but it does catch your attention and gradually quiets down considerably. I have read of people having problems with stove "running" away and I have not seen this. I do see that it does not take much supply air to get fire roaring. I rarely operate mine with supply air damper fully open. You really have to watch stove and know its "quirks".
I am rambling on here but they both are great stoves. To sum it up, the Jotul is very easy to operate but alittle messy and inconvienient loading wood. The VC is a little more involved to use (not much more but ther is a learning curve), it is SO easy to load the wood and empty ashes, a very clean stove. I would not hesitate to ask my teen age daughter to start a fire in the jotul Oslo by herself (stack some kindling on newspaper and flame on)---for the VC I would make sure I was present for questions like, "Dad, do I leave this lever open or that lever open?". Not difficult, but you have to know the stove. I enjoy things mechanical so this is not a issue with me. I love my VC and would buy another in a heartbeat, great stove. Now if Jotul; made a top loader---------

"Keep the Home Fires burning" Walt