total NOOB needs advice

[Buckeyenut]

Good evening. I have been reading, researching and reading some more on this (and many other) websites and forums for a couple months now and have decide to get away from the propane draining insert that was installed (very poorly I might add) by my builder 3 years ago. We built a custom home and during the process they offered up a free fireplace deal and we took them up on their offer. kinda wish I hadn't done that now. Anyhow, there has been so much cold air blowing in around the insert that it got to the point of shutting it off and covering it up with a blanket to try and keep the drafts from coming in. It never really generated that much heat to begin with, even after installing a blower in it during the second year in the home. I decided to remove it and find an alternative. Once I removed most of the veneer stone and pulled the unit out I found that the builder did not drywall all the way up the back of the bump-out. There was insulation in the wall cavities but the drywall stopped about 6 inches above the opening and there is no insulation in the top of the bump-out, I can see the roof sheeting and the nails for the shingles.

Here is my plan
drywall/durock the entire bump-out and insulate the roof and close it in with durock as well, bringing this space into the "envelope" of the entire house.
A local dealer has a Bosca Soul 700 insert that he has on "end of season" pricing for 2500 and I am considering installing that unit in the space where the direct vent (AKA propane drain) gas burner vacated. According to the installation manual of the Bosca I am well within tolerances as far as proximity to combustibles as it sits today so the addition of the durock sheeting should just be an added layer of safety in my eyes.
Pellets seem to be plentiful throughout the year in Central Ohio, TSC, Lowe's and the depot seemed to have them as well as some area dealers.

Does this sound like a solid plan? I hear nothing but great things about pellet burners from the folks that I know that have them. I have not had any first hand experience with them. Any help you all can offer will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[woodsman23]

Is the LP one you took out direct vent or full chimney??. Will the new one fit properly?. Pellet stoves are a great heat source but require more maint., cleanings. I would think it should not be a problem depending on how your venting it. Pellet stoves throw out lots of heat and are great and much more efficient than a LP fireplace. Give us more info and welcome to the board....

 

[Buckeyenut]

It was a direct vent Heatilator 3933. label says its a 22,000 BTU unit. The vent that's there now will not line up with the vent on the Bosca so I will need to cover that one and install the new vent a little lower and to the right so that it is a straight shot out of the back of the Bosca. There is more than enough space in there for the new unit. The space measures 39w x 36h x 24d with a 24" stone hearth in front of the opening. not much info out on the Bosca line though, they seem to be relatively new. there are a few people on this forum that either have them or have sold them and had no major complaints. The Salesman said they are designed by the guy who helped start up one of the major lines, Quadra fire maybe??

 

[pkitfox]

I am not quite sure what you are saying, but I think you are planing on doing something similar to what we did. We had a drafty, cheap prefab fireplace. We removed it, and sheet rocked the "bump out" where it was. We then installed two shelves, and put our big screen and surround equipment in the space that was occupied by the fireplace. We installed a free standing Harman Accentra in the corner where our TV and surround equipment was. We are pretty happy with the way it came out, and are very happy with the pellet stove so far, getting close to about a ton burned in about 7 weeks (we also burn an Enviro direct vent gas stove on the middle level of our 2150 SF tri-level house).

We had the cold coming from the prefab, and it is nice not freezing in our lower level family room now. Removing the fireplace was more difficult than I thought it would be. The triple wall chimney was a real job to remove. After the fireplace and chimney were removed, it was fairly smooth sailing.

If you have a fireplace that is useless, and a good insert can't be installed to cure the problem, then getting it out is an option. I would have considered a good wood burning fireplace, but the wife could not be talked into it.

 

[Souzafone]

Make sure it is easily removable for servicing. I'm not familiar with that brand, but any stove has to be periodically maintained, especially compared to a gas unit.

 

[dac122]

Don't know if you've given it much thought, but what's your plan for fresh air intake? Otherwise sounds like you've got this project pretty well thought out.

 

[Buckeyenut]

The Dealer said to use the room air for fresh air intake, they dont recommend the outside connection. They said it could cause issues in the summer when the warm, humid air outside circulates through the cooled down metal parts in the stove (from the AC) and potentially cause rust in the insert. Does that make sense to you all?
On the unit, it is a 50,000 BTU unit. Is $2500 a good price? they have it listed at $3100 regular price. it includes the insert and the shroud, no piping or pellets. He did say he would give me a few bags but not a lot at this price.

Thanks!

 

[jtakeman]

I have to be a smart a**, If he gives you 4 pellets take them. There getting to be like gold lately.

sorry
jay

 

[dac122]

The Dealer said to use the room air for fresh air intake, they dont recommend the outside connection. They said it could cause issues in the summer when the warm, humid air outside circulates through the cooled down metal parts in the stove (from the AC) and potentially cause rust in the insert. Does that make sense to you all?
On the unit, it is a 50,000 BTU unit.

Yes for unit longevity, but what does your local code say? In some places code requires 50 CF of volume for every 1000 BTUs input.

I only ask because you have recent construction, which is typically tight, and you will be further tightening your envelope. Last thing you want is too much negative indoor pressure.

If it were me, I'd run fresh air and plug the intake off-season.

 

[Buckeyenut]

OK, after speaking with many other folks I have decided to vent the fresh air from the outside. makes the most sense, especially after speaking with a neighbor who is a home inspector about back drafting the furnace and negative pressure and all that. still on the fence though, sinking all that money into the pellet stove when I can get a vent free propane insert for 1/4 the price tag.

UGH!! Decisions decisions.

Somebody push me over the fence PLEASE!

Thanks!

 

[THE ROOSTER]

OK, after speaking with many other folks I have decided to vent the fresh air from the outside. makes the most sense, especially after speaking with a neighbor who is a home inspector about back drafting the furnace and negative pressure and all that. still on the fence though, sinking all that money into the pellet stove when I can get a vent free propane insert for 1/4 the price tag.

UGH!! Decisions decisions.

Somebody push me over the fence PLEASE!

Thanks!

I feel that you'll love having the pellet stove, I love mine and there is something about a wood fire... You can't believe how much heat these things put out with a small amount of pellets being used...

 

[exoilburner]

Have to echo what CZARCAR said. Really! Do the fuel cost calculator. It is an eye opener especially with propane. You can't compare apples and oranges or propane gallons to pellet tons. Like has been said before you have to convert both propane and pellets to a common unit like BTU and compare the cost of the BTU generated by each fuel using the calculator.

Figuring the Feb 2009 prices in my area,
Propane was $1.89 a gallon.
Pellets were $245 a ton for premium dealer pellets.
Nat gas $1.33 a therm.

Using the DOE Energy Information Agency calculator to convert the above prices:
The BTU cost of PROPANE would be $20.69 for a million BTU.
The BTU cost of PELLETS $14.85 for a million BTU.
The BTU cost of NAT GAS $13.30 for a million BTU.
(broken link removed)

I have been recording fuel cost history for over a year and usually propane is much more expensive compared to the other fuels. I have a chart of the tracking data and would be willing to email it to you if it would help. The data is for my area but would be representative of the cost history of propane, furnace oil, nat. gas, electricity, and pellet prices.

 

[Buckeyenut]

I TOOK THE PLUNGE

Picked up the Bosca on Friday and installed it yesterday. That Mother is HEAVY!! Pretty straight forward install, straight vent out the back, one section of pipe and the end cap. Fired it up last night.

Now I have a few questions.
1. I smell the fire. I dont see any smoke or anything coming out of the unit, but I still smell the fire all the time while it is running. is this normal?
2. Since this thing is an insert, it is a pain in th @$$ to put the pellets into that slit of an opening. What could make this easier? I have tried a plastic bucket that can be squeezed into a fennel type shape and that made it a little easier but thats a relatively small bucket and it would take a mighty long time to fill the hopper that way.
3. Should you always see flames even on the lowest setting? On 1 and 2 the flames barely come up over the burn pot, on 3, 4, and 5 they are nice and large.
4. They gave me 10 bags of OHP pellets. (Ozark Hardwood Products) there seams to be a lot of dust in the bags. Should I try and filter this out before dumping them into the hopper (thus adding another piece of difficulty into filling this unit.
5. Cleaning the glass. Should I just use a cloth to wipe down the glass at the same time I scrape the ashes in the burn pot?

I think thats about it, for now.

thanks for all the help!!

 

[defield]

Buckeyenut,

Congratulations on your choice.

Regarding your questions, I am sure you will get good answers from other members, but . . . .

1. Are you smelling smoke from combustion or the paint burning off which is normal.

2. A coal hod ( many types available) can make pouring pellets much easier.

3. Not familiar with your model insert, but the flames on mine, on low, barely clesar the burn pot. Run mine on a low-medium setting with an external thermostat.

4. If you do a search on pellet screening on this site you will find that their are many differing opinions. Some model stoves handle sawdust and fines without problems, others have feed auger jams with dirty pellets. Personally, I screen into plastic tubs, scoop into a coal hod, and pour clean pellets into the stove.

5. Again, personal preference. I give the stove a quick clean every day. The glass gets a vacuum, with a brush attachment on my hot ash vac, each day ( I love to see the fire in the evenings), and every other day or so I clean with a product made for cleaning fireplace doors and glass cooktops, made by Rutland, called "White Off". It was recommended by the stove shop and works great.

You will find what works best for you as you get used to the characteristics of your stove.

Good luck!

 

[Buckeyenut]

thanks for the info ranger.

I still think I got smoke getting back into the house though. Even though I dont see it, I sure as heck smell it. It smells like a campfire all the time this thing is running. I re-sealed the joint at the adapter and sealed the first joint from the adapter to the pipe.
Do I need to let that Red ATV sealant cure for any amount of time before I fire up the stove?
I also can see light from around the exchanger tubes whil the fire is going as well. Is this normal or is this where the smoke smell is coming from?
I plan on going to the dealer at lunch today and look at the floor model to see if there is any space around the exchanger tubes on that one as well.

thanks!

 

[dac122]

Give the sealant 24 hours to cure. I assume you are using high temp. Have you hooked up the fresh air yet? Try cracking a window/door to see if this is a drafting issues. Depending on the prevailing winds or venting on that side of the house you might not be getting ideal drafting (even with the combustion motors help). Finally, get a CO Monitor if you don't have one and/or have someone with a sensitive CO monitor (fire department, HVAC pro, etc.) come over and confirm that smell is exhaust. Most stoves will smell a bit during the break in period.

 

[Buckeyenut]

I went out to the dealer and the floor models all have gaskets around the exchanger tubes. These were put there by the distributor as part of a change kit that was issued by Bosca (kind of like a recall I guess) but the one in the box didn't get it. They were going to give me the one from the floor but I insisted on getting the one that was still in the box since it wasn't beat up like the floor model, and the salesman that was there that day didn't realize that it didn't get the change applied. The dealer called the distributor and the distributor said that the gaskets around the exchange tubes wouldn't be whats causing the smoke to get back in, that's just to remedy an issue with controlling the burn (something i have been struggling with as well) and they arranged for the distributor to come out to my house next week and install the gaskets and a bushing around the exchange cleaning rod. So the dealer told me that I should have sealed all around the wall thimble as well and to try a better grade of High temp sealant (which he provided to me for free).

This has certainly been a learning experience for me. I love the stove and the Heat I get out of it. I had it running on high for about 45 minutes last night and it darn near put me out of the room it was getting so hot. the dealer has been pretty good to work with as well (aside form the change kit incident).

If anyone has any other tips and tricks on preventing the smell from getting back into the house feel free to send them my way!!

I do have a CO2 detector in the basment, I will move that upstairs tonight.

THANKS!!

 

[exoilburner]

Post some pics of your install. Might help.

 

[Buckeyenut]

its a work in progress, stone should be finished in a week or two.

THANKS!!