The heat source decision???

[sculptor]

My first post. I'll try to make it short but if you need more information please ask.


House:
I have a 137 yr old house with tall windows 36 x 74 (4 in each room), 1600 sq. ft of living space on each floor. I have 12' ceilings downstairs and 10' ceilings up stairs. No insulation in the walls.

I just sold my 10 yr old Appalachian wood stove that did an ok job at heating the house. My wife hated the mess of wood stove and the smoke, as well as the refrigerator sized wood pile inside the house.
We have been looking at pellet stoves as an option. I'm a little nervous about the possibility of getting a lemon or getting one that doesn't work as well in this house. This is NOT a supplemental heat source it is the main. I installed the Appalachian in the existing fireplace with a SS flexible chimney liner. Am I close to having what I need for the install? Also, are inserts as efficient as free standing? I am a little worried when I read the reviews about the ones that don't work well. If something happens to it...I have absolutely no heat. It is a little scary going from sure feeling of non moving parts in a wood stove, to something I know nothing about.

I live in NC and the closest dealer actually told me that he has sold 1 pellet stove in the years he has been there and has almost no information to give except the sales pitches. Winter is coming and I have absolutely no heat source in my house and I'm getting nervous. The good news (I think) is that he has a quardra fire classic bay 1200 in his showroom since '05 that he will sell me for $2000 out the door. The Harman closest dealer is Virginia.

I love this old house but the winters kill us, especially now we have a young son. What would you pros do? I fear if I don't solve this problem my wife will want to sell and move. I have invested lots of time and money into this house, and love it...Of course I love my wife more.

You advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[sculptor]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know about coal in this area. I did see the englander at HD. I like to research as much as possible (especially about something I know little about like a pstove) and when I read so many bad reviews, it scares me a bit. I understand you will find bad reviews about everything. I can't afford to get Central heating and Air right now, and I'm just looking for a pretty decent heat source for my house. I live a block away from the hospital so I think we are on the same grid because I can't remember ever having a power outage for an extended period of time. (I'm not even sure it has anything to do with a grid...just guessing).

 

[sculptor]

If were completely up to me, I probably would go with wood again. But my wife thinks it will ruin the new couch set and wool rug, because my old wood stove did put some smoke in the air when opening, not to mention the dirt and debris from the wood. Maybe I can try to convince her that the new wood stoves aren't like my old Appalachian?

 

[Firenutz]

A little food for thought is that there are battery backup systems on some stoves which enable you to run it for a little while with a 12 volt car battery. If it comes down to it and you need a heat source, I'd pack up the wool rugs or relocate the woodburner. Keeping your family warm is more important than being pretty. The guy I bought my pellet stove from heated pretty close to a house like you're describing 2 stories and it did a good job. He wanted to switch to coal since it's more readily available in our area. I know what you mean about the wood mess though. That's what my parents heat their home with all winter. Take into consideration how much you'll be paying to heat the old structure and whether you may be better off investing in insulation and some type of forced or radiant heating system.

 

[imacman]

.....The good news (I think) is that he has a quardra fire classic bay 1200 in his showroom since '05 that he will sell me for $2000 out the door......

The bad news is that $2000 for a stove that's already 4 (almost 5) years old is too much. I paid $1500 last summer for a '05 Avalon Astoria (comparable stove to the CB1200). Offer him $1500 CASH.....bet you'll walk out with the stove.

Good news, is that I think the '05 CB1200 was still made in the US, before they started making them in China.

EDIT: BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[summit]

.....The good news (I think) is that he has a quardra fire classic bay 1200 in his showroom since '05 that he will sell me for $2000 out the door......

The bad news is that $2000 for a stove that's already 4 (almost 5) years old is too much. I paid $1500 last summer for a '05 Avalon Astoria (comparable stove to the CB1200). Offer him $1500 CASH.....bet you'll walk out with the stove.

Good news, is that I think the '05 CB1200 was still made in the US, before they started making them in China.

EDIT: BTW, welcome to the forum.

has it been burned at all? otherwise its brand new, other than a few spots taht need dusting... ge ahead and get it... prob cost him @ least 1300 shipped to get it... acceptable profit margin on this unit.

 

[sculptor]

wow. Thanks everyone! I've been on this forum for hours today. The best site I've found on the net!

The thing that bothers me is the dealers in this area cannot answer any questions. They outright admit "we don't sell many of these...and I don't know". So I'm left with the disgruntled reviews of people who bought lemons and trying to find a broad based information site....which I think I did here.

Firenutz- I sold the wood stove last week. It was at least 10 yrs old and it had some issues. I agree with the warmth over pretty factor, but when you add in the wife factor.... ;-) . This old house has 1 fireplace so whatever I put in there will have to go in this room. It has a room on the second floor with a fireplace (the same fireplace, just a floor above) in case I need something extra.

Pyro- Thanks for the welcome. Outstanding advice. I will use it to get a better deal.

Master- I have been told it is brand new. he sent pics and it has the gold door trim. I asked if the warranty was still good and got a yes. Unfortunately, I can't get any other information from him. I just get "this is the south and we don't sell many of these." I asked him if my chimney liner would work and all I have to do is install a fresh air pipe. He didn't know. He said it would cost $400 to install. I'm pretty handy and installed the chimney liner for the wood stove and can I use it and install a fresh air pipe....he didn't know.

It's just having no information to go on here that worries me.

 

[imacman]

Sculptor, I somewhat agree with what Summit said about an acceptable profit margin, but if you DID give him the $2000, it would seem to be money wasted down the road when you called him for help, and he would say to you again "this is the south and we don’t sell many of these.”

He's indirectly telling you not to expect too much in the way of the help in the future..

IMO, offer the $1500.

As for the pipe, if you're handy, do it yourself...it no more difficult than the chimney liner you already did.

BTW, our forum names aren't "Pyro" and "Master"....check the light blue bar above our posts to the left.....I'm Macman

 

[sculptor]

Oh, I'm very sorry for that. Stupid mistake. :red:

I did feel like I was going to be out in the cold...so to speak, with after the sale service. I guess that's a big con for the purchase isn't it?

I thought I would post some pics of the unit he sent me, just in case you might spot something there?

 

[cac4]

My stove came from Chattanooga. I know thats not NC...but its about the same latitude!

Sounded like this dealer sold a lot of stoves. At least, they sold a lot of stoves to folks up north last year...like me! 8-/

I know you need to get some kind of heat in there...but I'd really get to work on getting insulation into those walls--whatever you're using to heat it, it would be nice (and a whole lot cheaper) to actually keep some of it in there for a while.

 

[yknotcarpentry]

Hey there, Not that I am as knowledgeable as half the peeps here as I am new to p stoves but heres my 2 cents. I was once a wood stove burner, I had a really old stove inherited with the house. It was getting to the point where I was fearful of burning it overnight and new I had to make a decision. I have friends that have newer wood stoves with fans and blowers and smoke reburns etc and one that actually leaves the door open at time to burn with no smoke. So I am sure that the newer wood stoves on the market would be better than your old one. Also the same would ring true for pellet stoves. I myself decided to go to pellets for less work, and mess, and I am glad I did! I know have two one in the house and one in my shop.
IT seems to me that paying 2 g's for technology that is 5 years old may not be worth it, especially when you can find new stoves for that price. Also have you considered since the p stoves can be vented out a wall and they don't have to go through the chimney, a differant placement for it ? that way you can have the pstove and if a power failure etc happens you can crank up the fire places that use the chimney??

I am some what in the same boat, I am pretty sure my furnace is dead and with costs being over 5 g's for a new one I may be depending on just pellets this year. I do have a big generator, so a power loss doesnt really scare me but I am also considering putting a wood stove in the basement just for security as up here in Maine it get wicked cold!

 

[MCPO]

Not to be a wise a$$ but only to question your priorities?
Your home sorely begs for both a fuel efficient and dependable central heating system and just as important some insulation .
Regardless of what fuel you have been using in the past or will use in the future much of it is leaking right thru the walls and ceilings, not to mention the value of that house greatly diminished and maybe not even marketable with what you describe as having an untrustworthy / questionable heating system.
Once you have these priorities settled then maybe think about a stove for supplemental heat or other reasons.

 

[fredarm]

Was there any central heating in the house at one time? Do you have ductwork that you could tie a wood furnace into? The Englander furnace is less than $1500 and would keep the wood and mess in the basement. One thought on the pellet stove--they are an appliance, more like a washer than a wood stove, and require periodic maintenance and repairs. If you're comfortable doing that you'll be fine, but it sounds like service could be a problem if it breaks.

 

[sculptor]

yknotcarpentry - I have a 1/4 basement so the basement is out. After the advice given, I definitely won't be giving 2 g's for it. My plan was to have my main (pellet,wood) in the great room and have a couple of supplemental heaters in other rooms. I hope you stay warm this winter! I'm a yankee, so I can deal with the winters better than my wife and son can.

Gio - I'm not taking it as a wise ### comment. I agree with you on what it needs. I bought it as a fixer-upper and it's always changing. The insulation is being addressed and I'm working on re glazing 45 windows. I just gave a brief description of my house as it is now, but don't intend on it staying that way. I just thought it might have some bearing on the pellet stove advice given. As far as marketability goes - From what I paid for it, and what it appraised for recently...to what it will appraise for when I'm done...not that worried about it. I just want to get through one more winter as comfortably as possible because I won't be able to do central until next year.

fredarm - No Central, but it does have a boiler in the basement, but previous owner removed all the radiators. I am a little worried about making a decision about a system I just recently discovered and it does worry me that the dealer leaves me wondering what kind of service after the sale I'll get.

 

[stejus]

sculptor

Follow this link. Someone was collecting pro's and con's about both pellet and wood stoves to put in a presentation for school or something like that. Lot's a good info to help you through your decision.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/41479/

 

[slls]

Oh, I'm very sorry for that. Stupid mistake. :red:

I did feel like I was going to be out in the cold...so to speak, with after the sale service. I guess that's a big con for the purchase isn't it?

I thought I would post some pics of the unit he sent me, just in case you might spot something there?

Nice stove, looks just like my 08 for $2600 and no gold.

 

[fredarm]

One more thought. Install a modern EPA wood stove. You can get the Englander 30NC for less than $1,000 at Home Depot or Lowes. The new stoves are less likely to smoke than the older ones if operated properly. Then burn BioBricks or Envi-Blocks in it. These are made from the same material as wood pellets, cost about the same, burn clean, make less mess and stack neatly. Not much to go wrong with an Englander 30NC and no maintenace other than cleaning the chimney. It would sort of give you the best of both worlds--the less mess of pellets and the reliability of a wood stove.

If you have to go pellet, I would consider getting an Englander from HD or Lowes. Seeing as you don't have a knowledgable pellet stove dealer near you, Englander sells to the do-it-yourself market and is geared towards direct customer service. It might be a better choice for that reason.

 

[stejus]

My first post. I'll try to make it short but if you need more information please ask.

House:
I have a 137 yr old house with tall windows 36 x 74 (4 in each room), 1600 sq. ft of living space on each floor. I have 12' ceilings downstairs and 10' ceilings up stairs. No insulation in the walls.

One observation I noticed. You mentioned your old stove could heat "OK" in the past. How many BTU was it at peak performance. With those ceilings and the "no insulation" factor, you will have to get the highest BTU burning pellet stove out there because your fighting against the odds. You may do better with a big wood EPA stove with a blower. A lot less smoke than the old smoke dragon you just got rid of.

 

[sculptor]

One more thought. Install a modern EPA wood stove. You can get the Englander 30NC for less than $1,000 at Home Depot or Lowes. The new stoves are less likely to smoke than the older ones if operated properly. Then burn BioBricks or Envi-Blocks in it. These are made from the same material as wood pellets, cost about the same, burn clean, make less mess and stack neatly. Not much to go wrong with an Englander 30NC and no maintenace other than cleaning the chimney. It would sort of give you the best of both worlds--the less mess of pellets and the reliability of a wood stove.


If you have to go pellet, I would consider getting an Englander from HD or Lowes. Seeing as you don't have a knowledgable pellet stove dealer near you, Englander sells to the do-it-yourself market and is geared towards direct customer service. It might be a better choice for that reason.

I did enjoy the thread about pro vs. cons!

Wow. that's a good idea. I did do a search on the blocks and found that as well as the most knowledgeable people about pellet stoves are folks up north...so is the availability of the bricks/blocks. I don't know what you pay for a cord up north, but it is around $170 here (that lasts me about 3-4 weeks) and the blocks are much more - plus shipping to me!

I would like to say again, how great you all are on this site. You are all so helpful and knowledgeable, and especially kind to a person so lacking in the home heating arena as I am... and I want to thank you!

*stejus - the Appalachian I got rid of was an old model of the 36BW. The guy I spoke with said they don't make that particular model even though they kept the name. It was rated at 3000 sq. ft.

 

[MCPO]

yknotcarpentry -
Gio - I'm not taking it as a wise ### comment. I agree with you on what it needs. I just want to get through one more winter as comfortably as possible because I won't be able to do central until next year.

fredarm - No Central, but it does have a boiler in the basement, but previous owner removed all the radiators. I am a little worried about making a decision about a system I just recently discovered and it does worry me that the dealer leaves me wondering what kind of service after the sale I'll get.

Ok , sculptor my advice is to bite the bullet and burn wood another year till you can afford the insulation and new furnace.
Try to convince your wife that whatever you spend on another space heater , it won`t amount to zip when it comes to contributing to a long term solution.

 

[stillersnut]

The newer wood stoves are really efficiant. I just stopped by pellet shop and they had a beautiful soapstone wood burner. The technology was amazing almost 80 percent efficiant, throws awesome radiant heat from stone inlays. Check them out @ Hearthstonestoves.com. I love convenience of pellets, however.

 

[fredarm]

[I did enjoy the thread about pro vs. cons!

Wow. that's a good idea. I did do a search on the blocks and found that as well as the most knowledgeable people about pellet stoves are folks up north...so is the availability of the bricks/blocks. I don't know what you pay for a cord up north, but it is around $170 here (that lasts me about 3-4 weeks) and the blocks are much more - plus shipping to me!]

Hmmm...if Biobricks, etc. aren't available around you, what's pellet availability like? If you can't get pellets easily, that may make your decision for you. A cord of "seasoned" wood here in eastern Mass. is in the $250-$300 range, so the bricks at around $300 a ton are competitive. I'd love to find wood for $170!

 

[sculptor]

Pellets are available, but you do have to look for them. The bricks may be competitive for you when they are nearby and match your cost of living. We could discuss the differences in the costs of many things. Like, I would've like to have sold my 1000 sq ft. house for $300,000+ I lived in previously, which is what it would sell for in other parts of the country, but not here. ;-) I lived in NY, so I am aware of what things cost as well as what folks make. Frankly, I miss a lot of things I could get up there that I can't get down here, but down here has it's good points also.

The englander 30nc looks like a really nice unit, Thanks!

 

[imacman]

.....A cord of "seasoned" wood here in eastern Mass. is in the $250-$300 range.......I'd love to find wood for $170!

WOW :bug: Seasoned cordwood here in Hudson Valley of NY is going for $170-220. Most places are asking $180

 

[yknotcarpentry]

Seasoned wood prices in Maine near me $250-300 has been for years, Green is $200-$225... My wifes best friends father does wood, he wouldn't even sell it to us for less then $230 (and that was with me offerring to help him for a day splitting, but he is kinda an a**) I figured I save my time and just paid the extra $20 a cord...