Tesla Model 3 Parked in Our Garage

[begreen]

Thanks for posting. This could be an issue for families who want to treat their EV as their primary family trip vehicle.

The plug in Hybrid has so many disadvantages, though... all the cost of an EV, if not more, with the added maintenance of an ICE. As mentioned previously, I was looking at a Volvo polestar PHEV, but it takes the cost of their $40k ICE wagon into the mid-$70k’s. How could one possibly justify that level of expense for a few extra mpg’s?

Our car has been virtually maintenance free. All local - 85% of our driving is electric.

 

[Ashful]

Our car has been virtually maintenance free. All local - 85% of our driving is electric.

Really? What vehicle? Have you reviewed the recommended maintenance schedule?

 

[SpaceBus]

I like the Polestar vehicles not for any perceived ROI or savings, but for cutting edge technology in a safe, relatively fast, and well appointed vehicle. It's really the driving experience you are buying, nothing less, nothing more. If I wanted to be environmentally friendly there are much better options and none are buying a new car.

I want to stress the safety aspect even though it's not very cool. Until a few years ago I never cared and regularly did foolish things on my motorcycle. I grew up and realized that I want a safe car, but still something fun. Volvo makes it.

 

[jatoxico]

Many good points made above and really great to hear real world experience. Although close, at this stage of my life I don't think I could live w/ an EV as a sole vehicle just yet. Won't bore you with the details but I have enough trips that the potential for reduced range would be problem.

Now if EV's were a bit more affordable so that I could justify having one strictly for commuting to and from work then I would consider. Guessing we're just a few short more years away.

@jebatty have you been in heavy traffic? How does sitting in traffic with heat/ac affect range. Living and especially working where I do, I often find myself stuck in crawling traffic for long (think 30 min or more) stretches.

 

[DBoon]

All of what jebatty said about EV range being affected by various factors. The worst (and most unpredictable) for me so far are nasty winter headwinds (30 mph or more) when it is also really cold outside.

• My Bolt has given me 300 miles of range in 75 - 85 degree weather (reasonable AC use barely affects range),
• 260 miles of range in 30 degree temperatures (heated steering wheel and seats, 50W plug-in electric blanket for passenger, and heat set at 61 deg F on low and directed down low to keep feet warm).
• I've had as bad as 190 miles of range in 15 degree temperatures with a strong headwind.

Having said all of that, the range reduction is really pretty manageable. I'll report back in my Bolt thread after I take my 190 mile long winter trip through the Catskills when it is 0 degrees F outside. God forbid I have to stop at the microbrewery on the way up and charge for an hour at the Level 2 charging station they have. If I had a Tesla, I could set up shop at the 10 station supercharger they have at the family-owned diner just down the block.

This weekend I'll be taking a 120 mile trip to RPI to watch a hockey game. Troy, NY has plenty of Level 2 chargers on the campus and a few downtown as well. In the five hours I have dinner and watch a hockey game, I'll be fully charged ready to return home the next day.

In just one year, I've seen many more DCFC stations opened on my inland route from NYC to suburban Virginia.

The future is happening quickly, indeed.

 

[Ashful]

I like the Polestar vehicles not for any perceived ROI or savings, but for cutting edge technology in a safe, relatively fast, and well appointed vehicle. It's really the driving experience you are buying, nothing less, nothing more. If I wanted to be environmentally friendly there are much better options and none are buying a new car.

I want to stress the safety aspect even though it's not very cool. Until a few years ago I never cared and regularly did foolish things on my motorcycle. I grew up and realized that I want a safe car, but still something fun. Volvo makes it.

Agreed on most points, having already owned some of Volvo’s “faster” cars over the years. Their driving ergonomics are never quite on par with BMW or Audi, but they have their own personality that’s uniquely Volvo, and we have always liked them.

I like the Polestar, and if I were buying a wagon to actually drive myself, it would be a possible contender at 415 hp in the small V60 wagon. But it’s almost entirely wasted on my wife, she really doesn’t care about big-hp vehicles, and would likely be happier in the 250 hp ICE. When combined with the beyond-lousy service of our two local Volvo dealerships and the distance of each from my house, we will likely not be buying another Volvo this time around, even as good as the prior one has been for us.

As much as the EV concept intrigues me, particularly for her daily needs, I’ve pretty much come around to passing on the idea for now. We need to get a replacement for that old Volvo sooner than later (preferably before Jan.1), and I’m just not ready to dive into EV charging today, when I’m not seeing anything that really appeals to me from any dealer within driving distances as convenient as the ICE options we are presently considering. Perhaps her next car in 2029, or my next pickup truck in 2027, depending on what’s available by then.

 

[SpaceBus]

Agreed on most points, I like the Polestar, and if I were buying a wagon to drive myself, it would be a possible contender at 415 hp in the small V60 wagon. But it’s almost entirely wasted on my wife, she really doesn’t care about big-hp vehicles, and would likely be happier in the 250 hp ICE. When combined with the beyond-lousy service of our two local Volvo dealerships and the distance of each from my house, we will likely not be buying another Volvo this time around, even as good as the prior one has been for us.

I'm glad my wife likes fast cars too. She misses the Mach 1 and the Challenger. The bikes are also missed, but she sleeps easier knowing I'm not getting on one anytime soon.

Volvo pretty much is the only manufacturer that makes a car that I would buy new.

 

[begreen]

Really? What vehicle? Have you reviewed the recommended maintenance schedule?

Yes, it's a Volt. The car actually prompts you for maintenance. Brakes are still like new. Not sure why this thread is drifting toward the Polestar. It's only one option. We like the Volt so much that we just bought a newer Gen2 model.

 

[jebatty]

What were you driving before you got your Bolt?

I had a 2007 Toyota Camry that was totaled in a collision at highway speed with a car that failed to stop at a stop sign on a cross road.

 

[jebatty]

Many good points made above and really great to hear real world experience. Although close, at this stage of my life I don't think I could live w/ an EV as a sole vehicle just yet. Won't bore you with the details but I have enough trips that the potential for reduced range would be problem.

Now if EV's were a bit more affordable so that I could justify having one strictly for commuting to and from work then I would consider. Guessing we're just a few short more years away.

@jebatty have you been in heavy traffic? How does sitting in traffic with heat/ac affect range. Living and especially working where I do, I often find myself stuck in crawling traffic for long (think 30 min or more) stretches.

I'm rarely in heavy traffic, but no doubt that sitting with the heat or a/c on for a long time will use battery capacity. Obviously, lower heat setting and higher a/c setting will use less battery capacity.

 

[jebatty]

DBOON "Having said all of that, the range reduction is really pretty manageable."

Fully agree.

 

[Ashful]

Yes, it's a Volt. The car actually prompts you for maintenance. Brakes are still like new. Not sure why this thread is drifting toward the Polestar. It's only one option. We like the Volt so much that we just bought a newer Gen2 model.

I think the total post count in this thread mentioning the Bolt is actually far greater than the few recent posts out of 240 in this thread mentioning the Polestar. The thread has drifted into general EV talk (including PHEV), and the Polestar is perhaps one of the few options that legitimately competes with Tesla dual motor AWD upon which this thread was started, as a sporty higher-end option. I would never consider the $36k Bolt or $33k Volt to have much at all in common with a $50k - $60k dual motor Model 3... but the Polestar comes mighty close in many regards except the specifics of the underlying technology (PHEV vs. EV).

 

[begreen]

Regardless, the statement that PHEVs are high maintenance is a fallacy. (FYI, a well equipped Premier Volt has about a $42K sticker price)

 

[Ashful]

Regardless, the statement that PHEVs are high maintenance is a fallacy. (FYI, a well equipped Premier Volt has about a $42K sticker price)

Maybe, I’m only going on what I’ve read elsewhere, I don’t own a PHEV. But the statements make sense to me, you have the added cost of batteries and electric motors, while still having to maintain an ICE. You may not need to change the oil every 5000 - 7500 miles anymore, but you should still change it every 6 months, if you care at all about corrosive combustion contaminants sitting in the crankcase. So, for someone driving 10k - 15k miles per year, no maintenance advantage over an ICE car. Likewise, they may have switched to a extended-life coolant, but there’s plenty of info out there showing that they’re not living up to expectations, either. A 24 month change interval is still recommended by many, there.

The advantage of the EV are more real, to most perspectives. No oil changes, no engine coolant changes. No purchase or maintenance cost associated with an ICE, period.

 

[begreen]

The advantage of the EV are more real, to most perspectives. No oil changes, no engine coolant changes. No purchase or maintenance cost associated with an ICE, period.

That is correct, there definitely are advantages to pure EV, including less pollution. However, there are also advantages to a PHEV, most notably the freedom to roam and explore without being tethered. This probably is more of a west coast need, the east coast populations are fairly densely packed in most locations. But I like to go hiking up in the mountains and the wilderness. And we like to go to the more remote locations in Eastern WA, OR, ID, Canada, etc. A PHEV gives us the best of both worlds. We don't have to worry about finding a charging station that may or may not be open or occupied or have the right plug connection. About 85% of our driving is local and that is almost all-electric, yet we have the range to roam. FWIW, the only maintenance cost for our car for the past 5 yrs has been an oil change about every 2 yrs. That's it. That is a cost much less than the catalyst replacements for some stoves. Our next car probably will be all electric, but right now the PHEV best suits our lifestyle and needs.
We're not the only ones that have made this choice. PHEVs are the first choice in Scandanavia too. Fortunately, they have a lot more choices than we do here. If a Passat GTE Estate was sold in America I would probably own one.

 

[Ashful]

Good post, begreen. Yeah, I’m lamenting the relative unpopularity of sports wagons in the USA right now, including the Passat Estate you mentioned. To get any car that fits this profile, esp. EV or PHEV, I’d have to go to a dealer too far from my daily driving radius to make it practical for us, right now. Yet every brand seems to have a plethora of bloated SUV’s, to the point where I have to admit we’re almost forced to go that direction to replace our current wagon, due to dealer convenience.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I have always preferred a wagon. The hatchback is a substitute.

We're in a time of transition and a transitional technology make sense for our needs. I look forward to owning a BEV eventually, but right now there isn't anything that fits better than what we have. I did just sell our 2013 Volt and bought a low miles 2018 Volt so our range and gas mileage just got a nice boost. This will have us covered for the next few years at least.

 

[Where2]

In just one year, I've seen many more DCFC stations opened on my inland route from NYC to suburban Virginia. The future is happening quickly, indeed.

I was just scanning ChargePoint to see if any DCFC (DC Fast Charger) locations exist are near me. It seems every Harley Davidson dealer within 100 miles of my house now has a DCFC. I may have to go look at one, just because in my 1500 miles of EV travels, I haven't actually seen one in person yet...

...We're not the only ones that have made this choice. PHEVs are the first choice in Scandanavia too. Fortunately, they have a lot more choices than we do here. If a Passat GTE Estate was sold in America I would probably own one.

If any VW GTE existed on our shores, I'd probably consider trading out my wife's CPO 2013 TDI Jetta Sportwagen. Alas, we don't get the good toys over on this side of the pond.

I'm curious what members on this forum tend to have serviced on their vehicles at the dealership? Many comments have tended to make a point of making sure there is a dealership nearby when purchasing an EV. It's not like there are oil changes to be done, and rotating the tires isn't rocket science. Brake pads ought to last nearly indefinitely. There's no timing belt to replace. I'm ordering my Bosch wiper blade two packs from Amazon these days, and swapping them in the driveway in less time than it takes to drive to the local anything dealer (including the MB dealer I can see out my second floor window!). Looking at the service schedule (checklist) for my eGolf, there is nothing (beyond wiper blades, cabin air filter and changing the brake fluid) that the dealer will be checking at the 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k, 90k, 100k, 110k, or 120k service appointments that has gone wrong on the last new ICE vehicle I owned. My wife's CPO vehicle hasn't been back to a dealer since it drove off the VW lot 8k miles ago.

Do you go for the free coffee in the waiting room, or the complimentary car wash?

 

[Ashful]

Looking at the service schedule (checklist) for my eGolf, there is nothing (beyond wiper blades, cabin air filter and changing the brake fluid) that the dealer will be checking at the 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k, 90k, 100k, 110k, or 120k service appointments that has gone wrong on the last new ICE vehicle I owned. My wife's CPO vehicle hasn't been back to a dealer since it drove off the VW lot 8k miles ago.

Do you go for the free coffee in the waiting room, or the complimentary car wash?

Good point, and at least in my case, I have considered this. But I do know Tesla owners who have had to visit the dealership multiple times, whether it be for recalls or updates. Not sure why, but I will be dining with the owner of a Model 3 Performance dual motor AWD tonight, so I will ask. Also, in the case of this particular car we’re replacing, we’ve been driving it about 25k miles per year, so your 8k miles experience is only maybe 4 months for us. It’s nearly two hours round-trip to the closest Tesla dealer, in peak traffic when we’d likely be doing it, so doing a round trip to drop off and another to pick up becomes a complete no-go for us.

 

[SpaceBus]

I was just scanning ChargePoint to see if any DCFC (DC Fast Charger) locations exist are near me. It seems every Harley Davidson dealer within 100 miles of my house now has a DCFC. I may have to go look at one, just because in my 1500 miles of EV travels, I haven't actually seen one in person yet...


If any VW GTE existed on our shores, I'd probably consider trading out my wife's CPO 2013 TDI Jetta Sportwagen. Alas, we don't get the good toys over on this side of the pond.

I'm curious what members on this forum tend to have serviced on their vehicles at the dealership? Many comments have tended to make a point of making sure there is a dealership nearby when purchasing an EV. It's not like there are oil changes to be done, and rotating the tires isn't rocket science. Brake pads ought to last nearly indefinitely. There's no timing belt to replace. I'm ordering my Bosch wiper blade two packs from Amazon these days, and swapping them in the driveway in less time than it takes to drive to the local anything dealer (including the MB dealer I can see out my second floor window!). Looking at the service schedule (checklist) for my eGolf, there is nothing (beyond wiper blades, cabin air filter and changing the brake fluid) that the dealer will be checking at the 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, 60k, 70k, 80k, 90k, 100k, 110k, or 120k service appointments that has gone wrong on the last new ICE vehicle I owned. My wife's CPO vehicle hasn't been back to a dealer since it drove off the VW lot 8k miles ago.

Do you go for the free coffee in the waiting room, or the complimentary car wash?

It's more for getting parts like headlights, taillights, and every other part associated with automotive maintenance. Bushings go bad, dampers break seals, and ball joints go slack. Just because there is no engine maintenance does not mean the car becomes maintenance free. Honestly oil changes and air filters are cheap compared to getting new wheel bearings or ball joints installed. This is why PHEVs will probably be around for a while and would be perfect for our situation here on the edge of the Earth. It's like the west coast where you might need to drive a few hundred miles in one day. My wife will be going in for surgery soon and I'll have to make several 150 mile round trips. We very much look forward to one day owning a PHEV or maybe even a BEV so our local trips can be silent and emissions free since our electricity is supplied by hydro.

 

[DBoon]

It seems every Harley Davidson dealer within 100 miles of my house now has a DCFC.

Same up north. I used one a couple of months back and browsed the H-D dealership while I was at it (had never been in one, actually). Was kind of amazed at the range of bikes they had - if these were only installed to just get traffic in their dealerships, job well done. Based on the E-bike video in their dealership, I think they are getting ready for release of their E-bikes.

The charging rate for the H-D DCFC was about 2/3 that of EVGo. Not bad, but I recall that it was only about a 20-25 kWh/hour charge rate.

 

[SpaceBus]

E motorcycles are very exciting, especially for off road stuff. Silent quads will be great for hunting.

 

[begreen]

My wife will be going in for surgery soon and I'll have to make several 150 mile round trips. We very much look forward to one day owning a PHEV or maybe even a BEV so our local trips can be silent and emissions free since our electricity is supplied by hydro.

It will happen. Hope all goes well with the surgery.

 

[Where2]

It's more for getting parts like headlights, taillights, and every other part associated with automotive maintenance. Bushings go bad, dampers break seals, and ball joints go slack. Just because there is no engine maintenance does not mean the car becomes maintenance free. Honestly oil changes and air filters are cheap compared to getting new wheel bearings or ball joints installed. This is why PHEVs will probably be around for a while and would be perfect for our situation here on the edge of the Earth. It's like the west coast where you might need to drive a few hundred miles in one day. My wife will be going in for surgery soon and I'll have to make several 150 mile round trips. We very much look forward to one day owning a PHEV or maybe even a BEV so our local trips can be silent and emissions free since our electricity is supplied by hydro.

Space Bus: Safe travels for you and the wife, I have an idea which 150 mile run you're doing. It's a 160 mile (RT) to go get anything in Bangor from our place at the SW corner of "The County"... but it's all interstate for us not Route 1 or Route 9. The "southern boy" in me would be in a snowy ditch if I had to take your route.

 

[begreen]

jebatty, I am going to close this thread as it has wandered off topic frequently. Please feel free to post an update on your experiences with the 3.