Sweating Copper

[huffdawg]

Hello all. I have been doing some copper sweating for the far end of my primary loop. Its 1-1/4" and one length needs to be sprung in to be able to get the pipe clamp on. Can the elbow that the tension is on be sweated in place to elleviate the tension.


Huff

 

[Duetech]

Realy hard to tell from the description and no pic's to ponder over. However I have sweated copper a few times and it sounds like re-sweating/heating to adjust is called for. Just like threaded pipe not all joints are perfect when the next piece goes in hae your flux and solder ready to recap any adjustments you make and there should be no problem. But before you do try to besure the joint you are sweating is the source of the spring tension.

 

[huffdawg]

Realy hard to tell from the description and no pic's to ponder over. However I have sweated copper a few times and it sounds like re-sweating/heating to adjust is called for. Just like threaded pipe not all joints are perfect when the next piece goes in hae your flux and solder ready to recap any adjustments you make and there should be no problem. But before you do try to besure the joint you are sweating is the source of the spring tension.

Yes I want to resweat the the joint with out taking it apart and cleaning the old solder out and refluxing. Is this an acceptible practice.

Thanx

Huff

 

[Pat53]

I'm not sure I completely follow you, but could you just cut the pipe, and then sweat in a coupling once the tension is released?

 

[salecker]

Hi
I was able to do what you are talking about. I had a tee that i wanted to turn 90 degrees.I heated it up till i could turn it,then i brushed on a little more flux and hit it with a little solder.Checked with 65# air no leak.
Have you had any fluid in your system yet?If so make sure it is drained completly.May have some contamination if you had glycol running in it.I was told to test with air to make fixing leaky joints easyer.
Good Luck
Thomas

 

[chuck172]

It's pretty tough to do on 1-1/4"' You need quite a bit of heat. You have to melt the solder evenly, keep it hot, spin the fitting, reflux the joint, let it cool just a bit and then add some solder.
1/2', 3/4" is much easier.
If you have any water in the pipe at all, forget it or pitch the pipe so the water runs off the joint.
You would do a better job by cutting out the joint and adding a coupling.

 

[nate379]

Not hard at all to do on 1.25". Even a small propane torch will have no trouble at all. Usually I pull the fitting off, clean it out good along with the pipe and re-solder though. Can heat up and turn but I have had them leak doing that, so not worth it.

 

[huffdawg]

Are there any precautions for sweating ball valves . Do you have to worry about melting any internal seals?

 

[b33p3r]

As far as sweating 1-1/4" with propane, I had a heck of a time using propane. I got the next hotter gas, proplyene or something like that and it worked much better. Also stay away from 95/5 solder. It's a nightmare to use especially on 1-1/4" and >.
As far as ball valves, solder as you usually do just make sure the ball valve is "Open" before you solder. Usually as the joint is cooling but still hot I cycle the valve closed then open again to make sure there is no problems with the valve. Is that necessary??? I don't know I just always did it to make sure no solder was blocking anything.

 

[NYEDGE]

Are there any precautions for sweating ball valves . Do you have to worry about melting any internal seals?

I usually lay a wet/damp rag over the valve body to act as a heat sink.
Try not to move the valve as it cools so that the solder is not disturbed, possibly causing a leak.
I used MAP gas on my 1 1/2" copper and it worked fine.

 

[Duetech]

Realy hard to tell from the description and no pic's to ponder over. However I have sweated copper a few times and it sounds like re-sweating/heating to adjust is called for. Just like threaded pipe not all joints are perfect when the next piece goes in hae your flux and solder ready to recap any adjustments you make and there should be no problem. But before you do try to besure the joint you are sweating is the source of the spring tension.

Yes I want to resweat the the joint with out taking it apart and cleaning the old solder out and refluxing. Is this an acceptible practice.

Thanx

Huff

Yes I would say it is.

 

[in hot water]

How much tension? If you have a lot of mis-alignment it will open a gap on one side of the fitting that may be hard to fill and seal.

For mis alignment I sometimes back away from the joint a foot or so and heat the pipe red hot. This will soften it and let it relax and align. Keep the solder joint cool or you may need to re-solder it.

There is a product called Hot Dam that you can pack around fittings or valves to prevent overheating, much like a clay or Playdo.

hr

 

[bpirger]

I would strongly recommend letting the valve cool for a bit before turning the valve...like a minute or so. I turned some too early and caught the softened seal and wrecked it. Dumb dumb dumb. After you sweat a whole bunch in a row, sometimes the brain is on auto pilot. Dumb dumb dumb!

I found I spent most of my time cleaning....There's a couple of threads from the fall that a bunch of us made our suggestions in after learning from our experience....it might be helpful.

I used Mapp gas on my 1.25" stuff. Not at all as easy as the small stuff, but doable. I found that if I was sweating outside, a breeze could really make a difference on even heating. I just had the spark-0-matic and MAPP gas. Heaterman and others have named some much nicer setups for not too much investment. Takes a good long time to heat up a 1.25 ball valve....like a minute or nearly. Again, not like 0.5".

 

[huffdawg]

Here's a pic . After tightening down the 2 clamps on the right and the one top left. The bottom left corner of the copper loop had to be pushed in by about 1/4 " to install the clamp, so now that its all clamped down I think there is a bit of tension on the top left 90. Is it fine as is, or should it be heated til the solder melts to relieve the tension.

Cheers

 

[in hot water]

Plenty of mounting hardware there I'd be tempted to leave it be. You may get some noise or movement if the piping see wide temperature swings. Maybe leave the two clamps on the right a bit lose to allow the loop to expand.

Another option for that is these clamps with the soft, flexible inserts. It holds the tube well but allows for some movement. The other is a copper coated strut clamp generally used on copper tube.

hr

 

[Willman]

This is one of the reasons why I prefit (dry) all of my work. Once its all laying comfortable I disassemble, prep and flux and reassemble. Then solder everything at once. The advancing heat speeds up the process especially on the bigger diameters.
Map gas with turbo torch is really the best option over propane.
I would use what you have versus re melting the joint. Keep an eye on it. Expansion and contraction forces are prolly as great or greater than what you have there.

Will

 

[Duetech]

Under normal low pressure boiler pressures there should not be a problem but it would not hurt to re-sweat the joint just be ready with a little more flux and solder if needed. Or you could get longer mount screws and put a shim under the bottom left corner mount bracket to relieve the tension..

 

[nate379]

Is there any reason that you have that many clamps even? I'd remove most of them.

 

[bigburner]

Looks like a nice job to me. You don't need that many clamps, it makes it harder to insulate. The 1/4 inch, if you didn't have to put your foot on it to clamp, it's fine. If its still dry just warm one joint if it makes you feel better. Another option is to heat the copper to a red and when it cools it will be soft copper and can be bent if needed.

 

[huffdawg]

Is there any reason that you have that many clamps even? I'd remove most of them.

Maybe I'll take the two top ones off.

 

[huffdawg]

Looks like a nice job to me. You don't need that many clamps, it makes it harder to insulate. The 1/4 inch, if you didn't have to put your foot on it to clamp, it's fine. If its still dry just warm one joint if it makes you feel better. Another option is to heat the copper to a red and when it cools it will be soft copper and can be bent if needed.

I think the 1/4" is from the drywall recess that allows room for tape and mud . Its all dry still . I will be pressurizing the primary loop , boiler circ. loop soon ,what air pressure should I use for this

 

[bigburner]

If you have a cast iron boiler don't use air, If you are leak checking piping and welded HX don't exceed blow off rating "30 psi" The piping alone will take 400 Psi - 30 psi will prove any leaks. I never air test, just fill her up. but after a million joints you know when they took and every one looks like a DIY guy did it, but they don't leak.

 

[Duetech]

Technically there is air in the boiler right now so air pressure for leak testing won't hurt but graduate upward slowly and as suggested above you should not exceed the safety rating as pressurized air has a lot more stored energy ("spring" to it) than unheated water. If you find a leak at a sweat joint and you have relieved the air pressure you will of course fix it by re-sweating the joint (this would be the same thing as re-aligning/re-sweating the joint that you figure has too much pressure on it so you should not fret re-sweating to gain a more suitable alignment).