Swapping a Quadra-Fire 3100 for a Woodstock Soapstone Stove

[Grif]

Hi folks,

You may notice from my stats that I don't post here often, but I visit the site almost daily and have learned a lot. Thanks to all of you who help people out.

I have been convinced to swap out my 1999 Quadra-Fire 3100 flat top stove for a Woodstock soapstone stove. I am interested in burning less wood and lengthening my burn times and it sounds like these goals can easily be achieved. The Quad has been a good stove to me. I bought it used about four years ago and it does a fine job of heating my entire upstairs but the fire goes out every night and I have to re-light every evening after I get home from work. I like the idea of burning 24/7 on three loads of wood per day. With the tax credit and the amount I figure I'll get for my used Quadra-Fire, the cost won't be all that bad.

Here's my dilemma. I built a raised hearth when I installed the Quadra-Fire:
(broken image removed)

My mind was set on the Fireview but the rear flue exit would force the front of the stove off my raised hearth. To make a Fireview work, I'd have to tear up my ceramic tile and do the job all over again. The Keystone and Palladian have the option of a top flue exit and would fit onto my hearth without any modifications but I wonder if they are too small for my needs. I hope to heat the upstairs 1500 sq. feet of my ranch style house. The stove is in the southern most room (not the ideal location) but we've had good results with the current setup. When a fire is burning, the propane furnace does not run. I really want the Fireview and I'm probably only looking at a couple weeks worth of nights and weekends of work to modify my hearth to make it work, but the Palladian would fit as-is. It sure looks pretty too, although the Keystone and Palladian do not receive nearly the amount of love on this site as the Fireview does.

I guess I've rambled on too much and I don't really have a specific question. I'm just looking for comments, advice, or opinions about what you'd do if you were in my situation.

I know how photos are enjoyed on this site, so here are a couple more:
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[DanCorcoran]

Could you rotate a new stove 45 degrees or 90 degrees clockwise, then put a heat shield on the wall? That might give you enough space for the rear flue on the Fireview...

 

[snowtime]

If you really want to have overnight burns then the smaller stoves will not cut it. The manufacture recommendations are usually way overstated. You might have to turn the stove and change the hearth but in the long run it would be worth it.
If the stove you want does not fit then do not forget there are lots of other manufacturers out there. Heating should be on the top of the list.

 

[wendell]

Even with extending the hearth, are you sure it is going to fit? With a rear heat shield the clearance to combustibles is still 18".

 

[Todd]

Looks like a kinda tight fit. If you can meet all the clearances and like the Fireview best go for it, it has about the same size fire box as your quad so it should heat pretty similar area. I'd also look into a left sided loading door to give yourself a little more room.

 

[weatherguy]

Since you have to do all the work anyway do you have another spot you could put the stove?
Either way Id get the stove you want and do the work, you'll be happy once its complete.

 

[Grif]

Thanks for the replies, everybody. The Fireview should fit and exceed all minimum clearances if I extend the raised portion of the hearth. Here are my measurements.
(broken image removed)

According to my math, the footprint of the stove for me will be:
distance from wall to outer edge of double wall stove pipe (19.5 inches)
added length of a 90 degree elbow (?)
stove (18 inches)
How much length does a 90 degree elbow add? What about a tee? I can only go one inch so I'm sure it won't work as it's set up now.

I do not want to extend the outer edge of the hearth (I don't think I'll need to) and the stove pipe and chimney cannot move at this point, so my options are quite limited. It's really not going to be a terrible amount of work to tear up the ceramic tile, extend the raised portion of the hearth, add a little more durock and re-tile. No chimney work will be required. Dan has a good idea about rotating the stove; I'll have to see what I can do, but I have a feeling it won't work.

(broken image removed)

 

[sbk12rs]

I have an older 3100 too , why can't you get overnight burn ?

Is the box not big enough ?

I can get 5-6 hours , shake the coals up a bit , toss in some pine and its off to the races .

I did have some wetter than I thought wood that was giving me some troubles ..... but I'm happy with mine .

I am still in the newbie stage with this stove and wood burning in general . This site has givin me a ton of great info Thanks ALL !!

 

[Todd]

What about getting rid of the raised hearth and make it all floor level. You only need 8" in front. That 52" should give you enough room. I don't think you need a big R factor for the Fireview floor protection, I think it just requires a noncombustible pad like durock with tile on top, but check with Woodstock on that?

 

[Highbeam]

You'll need to use the whole 52 inches. I did this math and it was like 51 required inches of hearth from the wall to fit the fireview. That's assuming you put in the bends to bring your double wall flue to the minimum 6" from the sheetrock. The tee and the appliance adapter add many inches.

That doorway there is a stinker.

Don't be so happy about the smaller woodstocks either. They have huge rear clearance requirements.

You will find that the BK princess and PE T5 will fit just barely.

 

[Grif]

Highbeam, unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right. I'm going to need all of the 52 inches on the hearth pad. Unless I can squeeze a 90 degree transition from the vertical stove pipe to the stove in 4.5 inches or less, I'm going to have to install a 90 degree elbow into a tee in the double wall flue to get it as close as allowed to the drywall. I may not even have enough room to do that. It's sounding like I'll have to forget about my dream of putting a Fireview in this spot.

 

[Todd]

Call Woodstock and give them your dimensions and see if they can make it fit or extend your pad out flush with the door.

 

[Chad S.]

My fireview install is almost done and the pad is 4'deep an 5'wide. The double wall pipe is 6 and 1/8" from the wall :cheese: and that puts the back of the stove 16" from the wall so I built a heat shield on the wall. The front of the stove will be approx 3' from the wall. The total length of the stove from the back of the tee connector (not the 90 deg) to the front is 30". Hope this helps. Also call Woodstgock 40-50 times with 200 questions and feel free to change your order 20 times... I know I did.

 

[DanCorcoran]

"19.5 inches from wall to outer edge of double-wall stovepipe"

You seem to be measuring from the front of the pipe. Don't they mean from the outer edge of the double-wall stovepipe closest to the wall?

And I agree, a wall protector would seem to be the easiest solution: just a sheet of insulating board, with standoffs allowing an inch of air space to the wall.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

two things..

One option could be to make the wall behind the stove non-combustible, by tearing out and re-framing with steel studs and cement board.. that would put your nearest "combustible" behind the stove either on the far side of the wall, or as I would do it, across the hall or whatever that space is behind. In fact.. a person could tear out, put in header, build a wall with stone or brick, and add a big chunk of thermal mass behind the stove.

look at two 45's in you stove pipe. I am using single wall, two 45's (no pipe between) set my stove 5.5 inches forward of my connector.

 

[Highbeam]

My fireview install is almost done and the pad is 4'deep an 5'wide. The double wall pipe is 6 and 1/8" from the wall :cheese: and that puts the back of the stove 16" from the wall so I built a heat shield on the wall. The front of the stove will be approx 3' from the wall. The total length of the stove from the back of the tee connector (not the 90 deg) to the front is 30". Hope this helps. Also call Woodstgock 40-50 times with 200 questions and feel free to change your order 20 times... I know I did.

Interesting. You must have done something wrong then. I ran through this with woodstock and on another thread here. The double wall pipe must be 6" from the sheetrock, the tee has a snout a few inches long and then you add the 4+" appliance adapter just to get to the stove. Then the stove is what, another, 20" and then you need the minimum front clearance. Ugh, I'll look for that old thread of mine for the exact numbers. You can't do it on a 48" hearth because I have that and it wouldn't work.

Wall shields won't buy you anything. The double wall pipe is your problem and that must be 6" from sheetrock.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/40958/

This is the thread. 48.5" from the sheetrock is the minimum legal hearth depth.

 

[Chad S.]

My fireview install is almost done and the pad is 4'deep an 5'wide. The double wall pipe is 6 and 1/8" from the wall :cheese: and that puts the back of the stove 16" from the wall so I built a heat shield on the wall. The front of the stove will be approx 3' from the wall. The total length of the stove from the back of the tee connector (not the 90 deg) to the front is 30". Hope this helps. Also call Woodstgock 40-50 times with 200 questions and feel free to change your order 20 times... I know I did.

Interesting. You must have done something wrong then. I ran through this with woodstock and on another thread here. The double wall pipe must be 6" from the sheetrock, the tee has a snout a few inches long and then you add the 4+" appliance adapter just to get to the stove. Then the stove is what, another, 20" and then you need the minimum front clearance. Ugh, I'll look for that old thread of mine for the exact numbers. You can't do it on a 48" hearth because I have that and it wouldn't work.

Wall shields won't buy you anything. The double wall pipe is your problem and that must be 6" from sheetrock.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/40958/

This is the thread. 48.5" from the sheetrock is the minimum legal hearth depth.

I talked to Lorin, Greg, and someone else at Woodstock. All of them went to the showroom floor and measured the unit front to back with the double wall Tee on the stove and all of them came back with 30". The overall length of my appliance adapter is only about 4" and it is shiny silver. The Tee is 9" long by itself and the stove is 20" deep. I asked about the appliance adapter adding length to the overall depth of the unit because of your posts and no one at woodstock has an answer as to why you get this rediculously deep dimension of like 40" or whaterver. I am told by 3 people that work for Woodstock that the adapter is not seen at all and therefore does not add any lentgh to the stove. Your thread says 9.5 adapter +20"+6" adapter. The adapter is shiny and silver and is not seen so the dimension is 30" not 36. And if my 4'x5' pad isn't legal for the stove than I guess they can't sell their 4'x5' pad that is made for the fireview to the public either because that then would be illegal too. I checked this dimension of this with 3 people at Woodstock and always come back with 29-30".

 

[Highbeam]

I see your mistake. You have confused a throw down hearth pad with an actual hearth. The throw down pad can be placed under the stove but away from the wall where an actual hearth is measured from the wall.

In that thread, Ron Stewart who is a member here and a woodstock 20+ year employee actually posted. Also in that thread I came up with these measurements:

"The DVL double wall tee must be at least 6” from the back wall, then a 34.5” (20” stove plus 9.5” tee plus 5” adapter) stove, then 8” front clearance means a 48.5” minimum hearth depth which conflicts with the 44” minimum on woodstock’s site."

These are all specific to the specifications of properly installed double wall simpson pipe of course and not some shiny silver piece that isn't proper since all double wall simpson is black, right? I don't see 40" but I did show my work so feel free to show me what is so "ridiculous". That would be helpful.

I wish you were right. I would still consider the fireview upgrade. Did you ever in stall the fireview? Your signature tells us it's in a crate.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

" And if my 4’x5’ pad isn’t legal for the stove than I guess they can’t sell their 4’x5’ pad that is made for the fireview to the public either because that then would be illegal too. I checked this dimension of this with 3 people at Woodstock and always come back with 29-30”. "

The fact that the stove can fit on a hearth pad of any particular size, does not remove all the other clearance issues for pipe/doors/side walls/alcove ceiling height, etc. You have to take into account all the possible issues, not just go by one.

ie: Simpson says DVL can be no closer then 6" to a combustible.. but if your stove manual says the stove can't be closer then 18 inches to the wall, (which it does, and only with a heat shield) you have to use which ever of those is the greater. If the DVL pipe once assembled and stove set in place is 6" or more from the wall, you are golden, on that one requirement, but if the stove ends up closer then the 18" you will have to move the stove out, regardless of the pipe manufacturers clearance. I do believe the answer is to take the combustible wall out of the question with a minor re-model. A decent carpenter could have that done in a day.

 

[Chad S.]

I see your mistake. You have confused a throw down hearth pad with an actual hearth. The throw down pad can be placed under the stove but away from the wall where an actual hearth is measured from the wall.

In that thread, Ron Stewart who is a member here and a woodstock 20+ year employee actually posted. Also in that thread I came up with these measurements:

"The DVL double wall tee must be at least 6” from the back wall, then a 34.5” (20” stove plus 9.5” tee plus 5” adapter) stove, then 8” front clearance means a 48.5” minimum hearth depth which conflicts with the 44” minimum on woodstock’s site."

These are all specific to the specifications of properly installed double wall simpson pipe of course and not some shiny silver piece that isn't proper since all double wall simpson is black, right? I don't see 40" but I did show my work so feel free to show me what is so "ridiculous". That would be helpful.

I wish you were right. I would still consider the fireview upgrade. Did you ever in stall the fireview? Your signature tells us it's in a crate.

Yeah, its getting put on the pad and hooked up on sat. I'll post some pics when its done. Also, I didn't realize you are talking about Simpson brand. I got the Selkirk stuff and the shiny 3" (just measured it)piece is what is the adapter. it goes inside the flue, then in between the pipes on the tee then the whole thing gets pushed over the flue and screwed through. You screw through the dsp stove pipe the adapter and the flue in one shot is how I was told. I can't see how a 3" piece of metal could possibly add 5" to an overall depth. The simpson thing must be a lot different than the selkirk thing. Either way I'll take pics.

 

[Highbeam]

Please do. That distance, from back of flue to back of stove is critical and if it were much shorter, well, I may be stove shopping again.

 

[Chad S.]

I'll definitley post a pic holding a tape measure to it because that is the one dimension that I Had a heck of a time finding other than calling them up. I'll know on Sat. for sure.

 

[Chad S.]

Hey Grif. Just a thought, if you rip it out and start over consider tiling the whole area in front of the door and a little past the stove to make it look more like an entry-way.

 

[Todd]

Highbeam,
Your just being difficult, go make your own shiny adapter thingy and buy your Fireview! ;-P

 

[wendell]

If you can angle the stove, it reduces the clearance requirements. As I recall, the corners have to be 13" from the wall. Angling it will also keep you away from the door. Don't give up your Fireview dream!!