Steel to soapstone?

[Dutchstover]

Hello all,
New here but I've been reading threads from you folks for a while. Wanted to get some experienced advice on a possible stove transition.
My wife and I are in a pretty new, well insulated 2 story 3200 sq ft home, heating with a NC30 Englander. It does the job nicely overall (6-8h burn times on a full load of fir or tamarack), but the great room where it sits really cooks when we're doing a full burn, and it rises to temp really fast. (Easily 80+ degrees even with teens and twenties outside, with upstairs 67-70 ). My wife would like a bit more moderate heat so she doesn't get cooked out so much in the winter.
I'm considering switching to a soapstone stove given the slower thermal transfer... staying a little cooler but for longer.
Sound reasonable? Looking right now at Woodstock Progressive or Ideal Steel with soapstone option. I know they're not rated for the space, but the Englander itself is only rated for 2400 sq foot and it does fine. Lowest winter temps out here in Idaho are close to 0 a couple times a winter, FYI.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!

 

[kennyp2339]

To be honest, your already on the right track with woodstock, my favorite is the progress hybrid, you get nice side loading, a new air controller for even lower burns, a big cat thats warrantee'd and a buy back if your not satisfied within 6 months. The only thing to think about is that these are radiant stoves with no blowers, so if your running the englander dependent on a blower you might want to look at a BK ashford (all steel) but its a convective stove which softens the heat output. Steel fire box to steel jacket

 

[Dutchstover]

The only thing to think about is that these are radiant stoves with no blowers, so if your running the englander dependent on a blower you might want to look at a BK ashford (all steel) but its a convective stove which softens the heat output. Steel fire box to steel jacket

I use the blower intermittently... mostly just to increase heat output on coldest nights after we've shut it down for the evening, but for actual distribution of the heat through the home we have a ceiling fan close to the stove which really helps a lot... plus a box fan at the top of the stairs and one at the bottom (sometimes) and both stories get well heated.
So I think we could do without the blower... and if we really had to we could add a box fan downstairs blowing from behind the Progress towards the stairs to increase output a bit (in theory).
And we love the idea of the cooking burners!

 

[Highbeam]

It’s not the soapstone that will help you, it’s the cat stove’s ability to burn slowly that will greatly increase your comfort instead of the nc30 noncat that can not burn slow as you have found. Don’t fall for the marketing about how magical stone stoves are. They’re pretty, that’s pretty much it.

I went the other way, from a full stone hearthstone to a much larger steel cat stove in my small 1700 sf home on the west side. Stone looks good but is no replacement for a properly designed stove with controllable burn rate.

Those woodstocks are great stoves with lots of happy owners. I like the slightly larger IS because it is steel and so will be hours quicker to make full output. I don’t even think I would opt for the stone liner which just slows down the warm up. The PH is good looking though.

I also have an nc30 and burn fir. You’re doing great to get 6 hour burns with fir. If I try to choke it down that much it smokes. She likes to run hot!

 

[begreen]

Cast iron jacketed stoves will provide a soapstone-like, soft-heat effect in a steel-bodied firebox. Take a look at the BK Ashford 30 cat stove and the Jotul F55, PE Alderlea T5 or T6 stoves non-cats.

 

[Dutchstover]

I also have an nc30 and burn fir. You’re doing great to get 6 hour burns with fir. If I try to choke it down that much it smokes. She likes to run hot!

Thanks for sharing your experience on the soapstone. And yes... the nc30 seems to really like 50% choke... but if I'm burning really seasoned Doug fir it will keep the secondaries going for a while when shut 2/3 or so... and plenty hot coals 7-8h later. Tamarack really does the best though. Great overnight results.

 

[Dutchstover]

The problem still remains though that moderate temps are hard to maintain. The stove really does like to jump up the heat. Hence the consideration of the IS/PH soapstone and cats.

 

[Highbeam]

The problem still remains though that moderate temps are hard to maintain. The stove really does like to jump up the heat. Hence the consideration of the IS/PH soapstone and cats.

Soapstone is a material that looks good but in my experience actually hurts performance and comfort. Many folks have cracked the stones and suffered with slow warm ups.

Separately, and magnitudes more important, is a catalyst design that allows for a wide range of heat outputs and corresponding burn times from a stove. You don’t need the crutch of thermal mass when the actual fire is burning slow enough.

You can get stone stoves with and without a cat. You can get steel stoves with and without a cat.

Woodstock is a great company and anything from them will perform well.

 

[begreen]

The problem still remains though that moderate temps are hard to maintain. The stove really does like to jump up the heat. Hence the consideration of the IS/PH soapstone and cats.

Cast iron clad stoves have changed the way we heat. Prior to the T6 we had a Jotul Castine, which is a cast iron, radiant stove. Daily room temp swings were common depending on the loading cycle. That is no longer an issue even in milder weather. The cast iron jacket on our stove has an air gap between the steel stove inside. This acts as a buffer, softening the heat and storing it in the cast iron making it more of a convective stove with the flywheel effect of soapstone. As noted, there are other stoves that also have this design that perform similarly.

The past few days have fluctuated from 35-40º at night to ~50-55º during the day. The stove has been running 24/7 with ~12hr reload cycles. I am burning 60-75% of full load right now, depending on the upcoming weather forecast. The stove usually gets loaded around 6:30-7am and again at 6-7pm. I might toss another couple splits on the fire around 10 pm if it's going to be a cold night. The living room temp where the stove is located is ~68º in the morning. We like it cooler at night for sleeping. After a few hours the room temp rises to about 73º on cloudy days, and as high as 75º on sunny days.

 

[Rearscreen]

What I like about the Progress is that since it's a hybrid, and on milder days where I can't engage the cat lest I cook myself out of the house, it still performs well and keeps an even temp. Who was the first stove to come out with a hybrid I am asking myself? I honestly don't know.

 

[Highbeam]

What I like about the Progress is that since it's a hybrid, and on milder days where I can't engage the cat lest I cook myself out of the house, it still performs well and keeps an even temp. Who was the first stove to come out with a hybrid I am asking myself? I honestly don't know.

Blaze king had hybrids decades ago but found better results without the additional air tubes.

As I understand it, even on that PH, you are always supposed to have the cat engaged when temperatures are high enough. It’s not an option. Else you are puking pollution into the air.

 

[Rearscreen]

you are always supposed to have the cat engaged when temperatures are high enough.

I do.

 

[Rearscreen]

Blaze king had hybrids decades ago but found better results without the additional air tubes.

No tubes in Progress they must have learned that from BK.

 

[Highbeam]

No tubes in Progress they must have learned that from BK.

Maybe, probably learned it from PE though that used a steel plate with holes in their noncats before Woodstock. BK didn’t need the secondary air so abandoned the secondary air feeds to become a full cat stove many years ago.

 

[begreen]

What I like about the Progress is that since it's a hybrid, and on milder days where I can't engage the cat lest I cook myself out of the house, it still performs well and keeps an even temp. Who was the first stove to come out with a hybrid I am asking myself? I honestly don't know.

That most likely goes back to the 1980s.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Cast iron jacketed stoves will provide a soapstone-like, soft-heat effect in a steel-bodied firebox. Take a look at the BK Ashford 30 cat stove and the Jotul F55, PE Alderlea T5 or T6 stoves non-cats.

True, but it's worth mentioning that the Ashford is the only one of those stoves that will qualify for the tax rebate. Hopefully PE and other manufacturers can get some of their stoves re-certified at 75%. I love the Alderlea from a design and function standpoint, but there's no way I would purchase a stove that doesn't qualify for the rebate.

 

[begreen]

True, but it's worth mentioning that the Ashford is the only one of those stoves that will qualify for the tax rebate. Hopefully PE and other manufacturers can get some of their stoves re-certified at 75%. I love the Alderlea from a design and function standpoint, but there's no way I would purchase a stove that doesn't qualify for the rebate.

True, though not everyone qualifies or needs the tax credit and it doesn't apply to Canadian buyers.

 

[Hoytman]

If they’re so bent on “clean air” and trying to force everyone in that direction, then why not offer the rebates across the board to every stove that qualifies, and to every buyer? I think that’s a legitimate question that deserves to be heard and answered by someone that can make a difference, but I won’t be holding my breath.

 

[bholler]

If they’re so bent on “clean air” and trying to force everyone in that direction, then why not offer the rebates across the board to every stove that qualifies, and to every buyer? I think that’s a legitimate question that deserves to be heard and answered by someone that can make a difference, but I won’t be holding my breath.

They do offer the rebate on every stove that qualifies and to every buyer in the us. They are rewarding the manufacturers that went above and beyond to create more efficient stoves.

I will say I think they could have dropped a percentage point or two and accomplished the same thing while helping more people.

 

[bholler]

True, but it's worth mentioning that the Ashford is the only one of those stoves that will qualify for the tax rebate. Hopefully PE and other manufacturers can get some of their stoves re-certified at 75%. I love the Alderlea from a design and function standpoint, but there's no way I would purchase a stove that doesn't qualify for the rebate.

There are lots of stoves other than bks that meet the 75% requirement. Kuma regency Vermont castings hearthstone woodstock buck moroso quadrafire and I am sure others all have stoves at or above 75

 

[mar13]

There are lots of stoves other than bks that meet the 75% requirement. Kuma regency Vermont castings hearthstone woodstock buck moroso quadrafire and I am sure others all have stoves at or above 75

A bit of a tangent, but @bholler, what's your opinion on the newer hybrid Kuma stoves? (I respect hearing your opinion, so I'm always curious to hear your in-the-field thoughts.)

 

[bholler]

A bit of a tangent, but @bholler, what's your opinion on the newer hybrid Kuma stoves? (I respect hearing your opinion, so I'm always curious to hear your in-the-field thoughts.)

I have never seen a kuma woodstove. We just don't get them here

 

[BCC_Burner]

There are lots of stoves other than bks that meet the 75% requirement. Kuma regency Vermont castings hearthstone woodstock buck moroso quadrafire and I am sure others all have stoves at or above 75

Not to sidetrack this thread, but at the moment, there are only ~50 wood stoves that qualify for the 75% efficiency tax credit, and the vast majority of those have fireboxes that are <2.5 cubic feet. How many 3+ cubic foot, N-S loading, cast iron-jacketed, non-catalytic stoves are on that list...?

 

[bholler]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but at the moment, there are only ~50 wood stoves that qualify for the 75% efficiency tax credit, and the vast majority of those have fireboxes that are <2.5 cubic feet. How many 3+ cubic foot, N-S loading, cast iron-jacketed, non-catalytic stoves are on that list...?

None that I can think of but considering there are very few that meet those parameters that are 2020 compliant it isn't surprising.

 

[nortcan]

Dutchstover, without any hesitation, the Woodstock ProgressHybrid would be my first choice,