SS liner install problem.

[Living North]

Hello everyone,
I'm in the process of installing a fireplace insert. I've removed the original firebox and built up/ leveled the floor of the original firebox.

The next step is to install the flexible SS liner/insulation. That is where I'm hoping to get some assistance. The original design has a 8" round pipe going up approximately 8 feet. From the top of the hearth to the top of the elbow. It then angles horizontally 90 deg for a best guest of 16". At the end of the horizontal area, it is a rough square hole. From there, it transitions too a round mortar hole that has a lean to it. Then it transitions to a 6" clay liner that is approximately 10" offset from the firebox hole. The distance from the top of the chimney to the bottom of the square cavity is approximately 5 1/2'. See pictures below for additional information.

In the roof view, the plans for far right hole will be abandoned and capped. The center hole is the one that I am working on. The firebox portion of that chimney is on center of the house/ roof line.

At this point, I only see 2 options.

1) Angle/inlarge the top portion of the chimney to meet the existing bottom half. Not sure if it's possible or even acceptable to do.

2) Carefully excavate the top of the chimney and rebuild the flue on center of the bottom half.

I'm not afraid to tackle this portion. Just not sure what direction to go.

Thanks in advance,
Ed

 

[bholler]

Hello everyone,
I'm in the process of installing a fireplace insert. I've removed the original firebox and built up/ leveled the floor of the original firebox.

The next step is to install the flexible SS liner/insulation. That is where I'm hoping to get some assistance. The original design has a 8" round pipe going up approximately 8 feet. From the top of the hearth to the top of the elbow. It then angles horizontally 90 deg for a best guest of 16". At the end of the horizontal area, it is a rough square hole. From there, it transitions too a round mortar hole that has a lean to it. Then it transitions to a 6" clay liner that is approximately 10" offset from the firebox hole. The distance from the top of the chimney to the bottom of the square cavity is approximately 5 1/2'. See pictures below for additional information.

In the roof view, the plans for far right hole will be abandoned and capped. The center hole is the one that I am working on. The firebox portion of that chimney is on center of the house/ roof line.

At this point, I only see 2 options.

1) Angle/inlarge the top portion of the chimney to meet the existing bottom half. Not sure if it's possible or even acceptable to do.

2) Carefully excavate the top of the chimney and rebuild the flue on center of the bottom half.

I'm not afraid to tackle this portion. Just not sure what direction to go.

Thanks in advance,
Ed

Honestly we need a lot more pictures and info. You say there is a round pipe for the first section is that exposed anywhere or is it inside the masonry structure?

 

[EbS-P]

Have you purchased liner and parts yet?

 

[Living North]

Thank you for your reply.

The bottom section appears to be 8" black pipe. It looks like the whole fireplace was built around the hearth/ chimney. Base was built, hearth positioned, more brick work done, then black pipe installed. Then more brick work laid against the pipe,etc. As seen in the first set of pictures the mortar was against the firebox. The 8" chimney portion appears to be constructed the same way. The first 2' section of the 8" pipe wasn't mortared in and has been removed. The 2nd section has steel stripes mortared in to support it. I can remove the 2nd section if needed. See attached photo.

Also as a side note. With the exception of critical bricks. There are a lot of air gaps in the areas that needed filling. Pieces of old mortar chunks and rocks that had minimal mortar holding them together. I assume that this was done to keep the finished chimney lighter, heat transfer through the chimney to the rest of the house, and expansion.

 

[Living North]

I have a 6" liner, 15 deg angled liner adapter, and a blanket insulation kit.

 

[Living North]

Is there any more pictures or information needed?

 

[EbS-P]

Recap you are wanting to install an insert with liner in a masonry chimney that has an existing 8” liner and a 90 into a larger clay lined flue. If the 90 to the clay lined flue is not accessible I don’t think this is possible.

And if it were how will you clean out the bottom of the liner at the bottom of the clay flue?

It seems that someone made a big mistake, made a quick fix that is just now being discovered. I would personally would be looking at a free standing stove with new class A chimney.

 

[bholler]

Is there any more pictures or information needed?

From what I can see i would most likely say an insert cannot be installed if i was asked to do the job. If I was on-site I may be able to offer other options but it's hard to say. Who ever built this definitely didn't know what they were doing

 

[Living North]

A freestanding stove isn't a option for me. I am willing and planning on putting the insert in.

The chimney appears to be put in by someone that has done masonry work in the past. The base is just over 8 feet wide then at approximately 10 feet up, it tapers to approximately 6 feet wide. Then protrudes through the roof. With 3 flues and the narrowing of the chimney. Someplace in 2 of the flues had to bend.

I am confident that I can rebuild the chimney as needed. My intention is to remove the 90 deg bend and replace/ mortar whatever is needed to make this a safe install. I am looking for guidance as to the best way to achieve my goals.

If I were to install a 8" clay liner from the top of the chimney to the intersection of the straight portion of the existing 8 inch hole. Then install the insulated 6" liner through the center of the 8" hole. I forgot to mention earlier, the insulating blanket is 1/2 " thick.

Would that be a correct solution for me? Or would something else be recommended?

 

[bholler]

A freestanding stove isn't a option for me. I am willing and planning on putting the insert in.

The chimney appears to be put in by someone that has done masonry work in the past. The base is just over 8 feet wide then at approximately 10 feet up, it tapers to approximately 6 feet wide. Then protrudes through the roof. With 3 flues and the narrowing of the chimney. Someplace in 2 of the flues had to bend.

I am confident that I can rebuild the chimney as needed. My intention is to remove the 90 deg bend and replace/ mortar whatever is needed to make this a safe install. I am looking for guidance as to the best way to achieve my goals.

If I were to install a 8" clay liner from the top of the chimney to the intersection of the straight portion of the existing 8 inch hole. Then install the insulated 6" liner through the center of the 8" hole. I forgot to mention earlier, the insulating blanket is 1/2 " thick.

Would that be a correct solution for me? Or would something else be recommended?

You don't need to install any clay liner to run the stainless through. That part is the simple part. The 90s buried in the chimney are the hard part. The person who built it may have known how to lay brick but had absolutely no idea how to design a fireplace.
If a customer insisted they needed an insert in there i would have to start by opening up a large hole in the area of those 90s and see if anything can be done. My starting price would be in the neighborhood of $8000 to $10000 with no guarantee that it can be done

 

[Living North]

I appreciate your honest response. I know the 90's are a problem and I can't install the flexible liner as the chimney is currently configured. I am going to poke around the masonry work from the top to see if it shows some more insight to the way it was built.

 

[bholler]

I appreciate your honest response. I know the 90's are a problem and I can't install the flexible liner as the chimney is currently configured. I am going to poke around the masonry work from the top to see if it shows some more insight to the way it was built.

My guess is that the flue was originally for a stove and someone tried to add an open fireplace by just building it under the connector pipe then building the pipe in. Atleast I hope they fully built the pipe in and didn't just connect it with pipe

 

[Living North]

The house was built in 1977. The firebox I removed was the original. Just a steel box, a baffle over the flue to slow the heat loss, draft control in the 8" pipe, and a gold face plate with double hinged doors. And a course screen for embers. I had a difficult time removing the old firebox because it was a exact fit. The big help was a previous owner over fired it and it was warped.

One of the flues goes down to the basement. I removed the original basement wood stove shortly after we moved in.

The third flue is for a small "grill ". It doesn't look like it was ever used.

The backside of the chimney was originally outside. But an attached garage was added (previous owner) and now it shares the wall between garage/ living room.

From what I can tell, everything was original when I bought the house. And built as designed. Not commenting on the quality of design, but it doesn't appear to be modified with the exceptions that I have personally made.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

A freestanding stove isn't a option for me. I am willing and planning on putting the insert in.

Is there absolutely no place for anything free standing? If @begreen is right about cost it could be worth looking into even just a qoute.

 

[Living North]

No room for a freestanding stove. The room is less than 12 feet wide. By the time all the clearances are figured in, the room would be very narrow. I would also have to cut another hole in the roof to put a chimney next to the current brick one. I'm keeping the original one for emergency backup if the power goes out in the middle of the winter. We have some leftover wood and a stove in the basement for just the occasion. We use to burn wood the first couple years we had the place. Think -30 to -40 below zero, I don't want my water pipes to freeze. And it's 20 miles to the nearest town.

I've been very self-sufficient through the years and I not afraid of manual labor if that's what it takes. Just looking for some advice on how to modify the chimney. I want to make it safe!