Son in law wants to install an insert

[mark cline]

My son in law had mentioned he wants to install an insert before next winter. Due to the recent super cold over the last 4 days ,the house was not as comfortable as my daughter wanted .
I have heated with wood since 1981, but I have no knowledge of inserts. I know secondary air, large glass area and a large fire box are needed , so any information on what the forum recommends ,would be a great help.

 

[mark cline]

Just noticed Goose Chaser 's thread on his looking for an insert, so I will be keeping an eye on that thread.

 

[armanidog]

Just noticed Goose Chaser 's thread on his looking for an insert, so I will be keeping an eye on that thread.

Number one factor= how much does he want to spend?
Number two factor= you have to figure in the cost of a metal chimney or chimney liner for a masonry chimney.
Number three factor= how much space does he want to heat and how well insulated is that space?

 

[mark cline]

The fireplace is in the living room , centrally located , about 24 x 14. It has a set of double french doors going into a dining room then kitchen after that. Other wall is another set of french doors leading to a large hallway and wide stair case to 3 bedrooms upstairs.
I had mentioned that $5 to $6K would not be out of order for the liner and insert. Install would be on me.
As far as heating , the room is large and has 2 large doorways, so the total heat output would not over heat the room.
My biggest concern would be cleaning the flue. Cleaning from the bottom up would require pulling the insert out, would this be feasible? Cleaning from the top down would need my 40Ft boom lift , which I would use for the install , but I don't want to transport it 50 miles each year to clean the flue.

 

[bholler]

Well number one factor for an insert install is do you have a suitable fireplace for an install. If not you can't use an insert. Then what size insulated liner can you fit in the current chimney. And what size insert will fit in the firebox.

 

[bholler]

The fireplace is in the living room , centrally located , about 24 x 14. It has a set of double french doors going into a dining room then kitchen after that. Other wall is another set of french doors leading to a large hallway and wide stair case to 3 bedrooms upstairs.
I had mentioned that $5 to $6K would not be out of order for the liner and insert. Install would be on me.
As far as heating , the room is large and has 2 large doorways, so the total heat output would not over heat the room.
My biggest concern would be cleaning the flue. Cleaning from the bottom up would require pulling the insert out, would this be feasible? Cleaning from the top down would need my 40Ft boom lift , which I would use for the install , but I don't want to transport it 50 miles each year to clean the flue.

No need to pull the insert almost all can simply be cleaned through the insert.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

My son in law had mentioned he wants to install an insert before next winter. Due to the recent super cold over the last 4 days ,the house was not as comfortable as my daughter wanted .
I have heated with wood since 1981, but I have no knowledge of inserts. I know secondary air, large glass area and a large fire box are needed , so any information on what the forum recommends ,would be a great help.

Need the measurements of the fireplace, please. In all dimensions, not just the opening. The top will likely be smaller than the bottom, as the masonry tapers as you go up..

 

[brenndatomu]

I have heated with wood since 1981, but I have no knowledge of inserts. I know secondary air, large glass area and a large fire box are needed , so any information on what the forum recommends ,would be a great help.

Insert stoves aren't really any different from any other stove...they just have an air jacket built around them so the heat can be pushed back out to the room by the front mounted blower.
And the chimney can be cleaned from the bottom by popping the baffle out of the stove, same as most others...

 

[jetsam]

The more it sticks out, the better.

The best option is to put in a centrally located freestander on the main floor (not the basement).

If he's decided on using the fireplace, next best is to build out that hearth and put a freestander there.

If he's decided on an insert, aim for the largest, least flush insert that fits in the fireplace.

If it's going to be the primary heater all year and nobody is home frequently, lean heavily towards cat stoves. If it's to help with the heating bills and/or someone is home all day, it's an open field (just steer clear of very poor stoves like fixed burn rate units and pre-EPA units).

If he does go with an insert, the first things to consider are flue diameter (what size insulated liner can fit in the old flue?) and fireplace size.

In any case, pick a few stoves that will fit and read some review threads about them.

 

[mark cline]

An insert is preferred over a freestanding stove.I like the BK Ashford 25 or the Princess.I didn't get any measurements on the fireplace , but it is big. Just a guess about 44 wide 36 high and 32 deep. They have owned the house about 6 years and never used or had the fireplace swept . So a chimney inspection will be the first step, then we will proceed with the insert selection.

 

[begreen]

Is this their first time burning wood and running a stove?

 

[mark cline]

Yes, this would be their first experience with a wood burning stove . I told my son in law that he will have to listen to me as far as running the stove . Wood moisture content ,wood storage ,maintenance all will need to be addressed .

 

[begreen]

Approximately how tall will the liner be? Wondering if a simpler stove might be easier for a first time burner.

 

[mark cline]

Liner would roughly be about 30FT.

 

[jetsam]

Eh, a BK is probably great for a first-timer. My wife knows very little about wood stoves, and I don't worry about overfires one bit. That'd be a different story with a different stove.

With a 30' liner, you may really benefit from figuring out how to get a damper inline.

 

[mark cline]

I like the BK thermostat for better control and the liner ,I'm looking at a rigid ,possibly double wall liner , which is made by some local amish. I'm not a big fan of the flexible liner. We will know more when we get the boom lift up to the house in the spring.

 

[begreen]

DuraLiner by DuraVent it pre-insulated double-wall and offered in rigid. 30ft of flue is likely to have high draft that may be challenging.

 

[brenndatomu]

30ft of flue is likely to have high draft that may be challenging.

Yes, very likely.
My chimney is a little less than 30' (27'?) and I still had high draft issues one night during the cold spell we just came through. The high temp alarm on the furnace went off and when I went down to check it, the barometric damper was maxed out (wide open) the draft was still -0.02" WC over max, and I was really regretting my decision to not reinstall the manual key damper that I had in there for the previous furnace.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

An insert is preferred over a freestanding stove.I like the BK Ashford 25 or the Princess.I didn't get any measurements on the fireplace , but it is big. Just a guess about 44 wide 36 high and 32 deep. They have owned the house about 6 years and never used or had the fireplace swept . So a chimney inspection will be the first step, then we will proceed with the insert selection.

So you are picking out their stove for them?

Will you be buying it (I saw you were offering to take care of the install) and coming over to run it for them as well?

Running a stove to heat a house is a pretty big lifestyle change, unless it's just for an occasional fire.

Your sil and/or daughter got it in them?

I do agree a thermostat stove is easier to run if someone's not really into it, generally speaking. Not sure that would be the case with a BK insert with 30' of smooth straight pipe, based on what I've been reading from users. But it comes at significant expense and complication.

If you pick out the stove, and there's some issue, like a nagging smokey or creosote smell, or difficulty running it, it'll be your fault. Just something to keep in mind. It might be better for the relationships to come up with 5 or so options, with the pros and cons for each, then let them pick.

It'll still be your fault if it doesn't work out, but much less so. ;-)

 

[weatherguy]

The fireplace is big enough to put a free stander, of course that would be a choice of your daughter/SIL and would have to be a rear exit flie.

 

[mark cline]

What I'm offering my son in law and daughter , is sound proven advice , experience as far as installation and knowledge of equipment for wood processing , wood species , moisture content etc. I will install the stove and liner with my sil help and the stove recommendation would be determined by my knowledge and the knowledge and advice of this forum. If I didn't think they were up for this then I never would have offered.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

What I'm offering my son in law and daughter , is sound proven advice , experience as far as installation and knowledge of equipment for wood processing , wood species , moisture content etc. I will install the stove and liner with my sil help and the stove recommendation would be determined by my knowledge and the knowledge and advice of this forum. If I didn't think they were up for this then I never would have offered.

Well, good luck with it, then. Look forward to hearing how it works out.

 

[EbS-P]

I would recommend making the decision to with a catalytic or non-catalytic insert first. That will narrow down choices. I chose a non cat Jøtul because I liked the single lever operation.

The opening is quite large as will require a very large surround. My opening was 42x29 and I didn’t like the small window area to large surround area ratio so I chose a freestanding stove. And with that that big of opening you could a stick a top vent free standing in with lots of space on the top and sides and not need to alter hearth. (Of course none of that matters with an insert)

I can’t recommend highly enough the auber AT200 thermometer/alarm. As a first time stove owner with a young family it has kept us from over-firing the new stove. I we are very attentive to the stove but life happens and it’s great to have that feedback while learning a new stove and nice loud reminder when it’s starting to get a little too hot.

Plan on a damper blockoff plate. Mine installer didn’t do one and I’m will be doing it my self in the coming weeks.

Lastly I am amazed at how wood quality and moisture effect the new EPA stoves. Everyone says 20% and lower. My experience is that 20% burns but not amazing well. (I have draft that is just adequate. ) After reading the forums for a month Now I realize that overdraft is a real problem and given my install, where appliance connector connects to preinsulated forever flex liner, it would not have an easy fix. The solution would be to measure the draft before the insert is installed. If you are not used to EPA stoves it’s an adjustment if you are you know this already.

Anyway those are my thoughts from someone who recently went through the stove buying process.

 

[bholler]

I would recommend making the decision to with a catalytic or non-catalytic insert first. That will narrow down choices. I chose a non cat Jøtul because I liked the single lever operation.

The opening is quite large as will require a very large surround. My opening was 42x29 and I didn’t like the small window area to large surround area ratio so I chose a freestanding stove. And with that that big of opening you could a stick a top vent free standing in with lots of space on the top and sides and not need to alter hearth. (Of course none of that matters with an insert)

I can’t recommend highly enough the auber AT200 thermometer/alarm. As a first time stove owner with a young family it has kept us from over-firing the new stove. I we are very attentive to the stove but life happens and it’s great to have that feedback while learning a new stove and nice loud reminder when it’s starting to get a little too hot.

Plan on a damper blockoff plate. Mine installer didn’t do one and I’m will be doing it my self in the coming weeks.

Lastly I am amazed at how wood quality and moisture effect the new EPA stoves. Everyone says 20% and lower. My experience is that 20% burns but not amazing well. (I have draft that is just adequate. ) After reading the forums for a month Now I realize that overdraft is a real problem and given my install, where appliance connector connects to preinsulated forever flex liner, it would not have an easy fix. The solution would be to measure the draft before the insert is installed. If you are not used to EPA stoves it’s an adjustment if you are you know this already.

Anyway those are my thoughts from someone who recently went through the stove buying process.

You need a stove hooked up and burning to measure draft. But in this case with 30 feet of liner there is no need draft will be to strong without question

 

[John B]

Agree on the draft for a chimney that tall. I went through this with my install, and a pipe damper cured my draft issues. Here is how I set it up for your reference.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/damper-installation-in-liner.173271/page-2#post-2339261