Small Studio Cat Stove Advice/Discussion

[swarthyredbeard]

Hello all, First time posting here. During my hours of reading and local stove shop visits I have been narrowing down my choices for a new stove. I am building a 440 sq ft studio/man cave/workshop/guest room onto my 640 sq ft shop space. The shop has never had heating of any kind and will be a welcome addition in winter months. Both spaces are insulated with 8' flat ceilings. Concrete floors. Northern California coast (think Oregon coast). I have attached the floor plan of the studio and photo of stove placement.

The studio and the shop can be closed off to each other. When the shop is not being used, there is only a 440sqft heating requirement. The long and slow numbers on the modern cat stoves is impressive. The stove will be in the studio on the opposite wall from the shop. The studio has a 600cfm range hood and a wall vent with fan to the shop. (see plans)

Use: The studio and shop will be used full time as live in and part time workshop. Shop has small non partitioned office and 1/2 bath+laundry. Outdoor Shower.

The contactors are cutting the roof next week and I'm coming down to decision making time.

Stoves on my short list:

Hearthstone:
Green mountain 40
Green Mountain 60

Blazeking:
Boxer BX24
Chinook 30.2

Woodstock:
Keystone

Prefered local shops have Blazekings and other decent local shop has Hearthstone.

A close friend with a Woodstock Fireview loves his and highly recommends. Pros: proven design, soapstone. Cons: costs more, higher clearances to combustibles.

I love the under stove wood storage, raised box, big window and super low corner installation clearance of the Boxer. Pro: Costs less, fits very nicely in hearth area Cons: Newer stove.

Saw the Green Mountain line in the shop and like the numbers. Nigel459 on here has spoken very highly of it. Pros: cost within budget, close clearances, smaller stove, Cons: newer stove, two cats, smallest firebox on GM40 for tight e/w loading.

I have burn wood as a main heating source my entire life. I've only used 1980's metal stoves in a bigger house with high ceilings. Sweet Home and double door Lopi. Took an old Sweet Home and made a sauna around it. I like splitting and burning wood and am intrigued by the long burn times and close to the wall efficiencies of these modern catalytic stoves. Been nerding out on the deeper knowledge on this Forum and thought you guys might like in on this project. Constructive advice and discussion is much appreciated as I'm pulling the trigger on the center piece of this build in the next few days.

Hopefully all the images came through correctly. Been reading this Forum a bunch lately and have been enjoying all the knowledge and discussions here. Thanks.

Cheers

 

[begreen]

Also look a the Woodstock Survival stove. It is more closely size for this space.

 

[Woody Stover]

Looks like you can just vent any excess heat out into the shop, so I'd think even a small secondary-burn stove could work. No cat to worry about. The Ws and BK could run lower on a partial load, so oversizing shouldn't be a problem with them..not sure about the GM. begreen's suggestions is interesting, but I'm not up to speed on reports of how the Survival stove runs. The low initial outlay is attractive.

 

[weatherguy]

I was thinking maybe you could add the absolute steel from Woodstock to the list, its a smaller affordable stove with reported long burn times that you can turn down low.

 

[Highbeam]

It’s really tough to heat small spaces with wood. You’re either experiencing huge temperature swings or you are constantly starting little fires with a few twigs to maintain a minuscule heat output.

Pellet stoves are pretty good at low output and automatically start and stop.

Since someone is living here I would first setup a good thermostat standard heater, then look at wood based systems.

 

[swarthyredbeard]

Looks like you can just vent any excess heat out into the shop,

Since someone is living here I would first setup a good thermostat standard heater, then look at wood based systems.

I like the thermostat and venting ideas but I’m definitely sticking with wood heat. Thinking I’ll put the vent fan to the shop space on a thermostat and it should be pretty efficient at dumping heat to the larger space when needed. There’s a fair bit of thermal mass in the shop as it’s often used as a metal working space with steel tables and materials.

I was thinking maybe you could add the absolute steel from Woodstock to the list...

I like the absolute steel but it has really big clearances and pushes the stove further into the room than I’d like

Also look a the Woodstock Survival stove. It is more closely size for this space.

The Survival Stove ticks a lot of the boxes and I put it on my list. Not the biggest fan of the aesthetics compared to the contenders, but the price and size seem on point.


I’m leaning heavily towards the BK Boxer. It fits the hearth space perfect, has a great fire view window, has an elevated firebox, wood storage underneath and super reputable company for long and slow burns. Seems like a good value and is rated down to 800sf.

Am I way off the mark with the Boxer?

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Highbeam]

I like the thermostat and venting ideas but I’m definitely sticking with wood heat. Thinking I’ll put the vent fan to the shop space on a thermostat and it should be pretty efficient at dumping heat to the larger space when needed. There’s a fair bit of thermal mass in the shop as it’s often used as a metal working space with steel tables and materials.



I like the absolute steel but it has really big clearances and pushes the stove further into the room than I’d like



The Survival Stove ticks a lot of the boxes and I put it on my list. Not the biggest fan of the aesthetics compared to the contenders, but the price and size seem on point.


I’m leaning heavily towards the BK Boxer. It fits the hearth space perfect, has a great fire view window, has an elevated firebox, wood storage underneath and super reputable company for long and slow burns. Seems like a good value and is rated down to 800sf.

Am I way off the mark with the Boxer?

Thanks for the replies!

Id rather recommend a chinook which is bk’s other boxy looking stove than the boxer. The boxer is a new stove that looks to be the insert firebox in a freestanding configuration.

 

[swarthyredbeard]

Id rather recommend a chinook which is bk’s other boxy looking stove than the boxer. The boxer is a new stove that looks to be the insert firebox in a freestanding configuration.

Is the reconfigured insert a bad thing? The chinook extends into the room further. Not a deal breaker but with such a small room it all makes a difference.

 

[begreen]

Not bad, but sometimes less ideal. The lack of depth could mean a shallower firebox that can only be loaded E/W. That may be an ok compromise in order to make the stove work in the space. BK makes good stoves, just be sure there is enough chimney height to meet spec.

 

[Highbeam]

Is the reconfigured insert a bad thing? The chinook extends into the room further. Not a deal breaker but with such a small room it all makes a difference.

Look inside, the firebox shape may be less fun to actually load. other compromises include little to no “belly” for ash or coals. Then the cat meter and controls are out front in places less desirable than on the free standers. Check for range of output since those inserts took hits on low end output and were also less efficient.

I’ve never burned one but there are some really nice things about the freestanders.

 

[swarthyredbeard]

The lack of depth could mean a shallower firebox that can only be loaded E/W....
...just be sure there is enough chimney height to meet spec.

The boxer has the biggest firebox I'm looking at. 22" max log size. I think all the stoves are e/w with the Woodstock being side loaders.
There is about 9' floor to top of roof. Flat roof = ~11 foot of chimney to get the recommended 15' of draft.

Look inside, the firebox shape may be less fun to actually load. other compromises include little to no “belly” for ash or coals. Then the cat meter and controls are out front in places less desirable than on the free standers. Check for range of output since those inserts took hits on low end output and were also less efficient.

This makes sense and is the first explanation that would make me want to reconsider the reconfigured insert. I wish there was one on the floor locally.


Here are the #'s on the Boxer:

 

[Woody Stover]

I’m leaning heavily towards the BK Boxer. It fits the hearth space perfect, has a great fire view window, has an elevated firebox.super reputable company for long and slow burns. Seems like a good value and is rated down to 800sf.

Yeah, I've thought the elevated box would give a better fire view. I almost got my SIL a Woodstock Absolute High Style, but went for a non-cat in the end. It's harder to see the secondary burn with the stove sitting on the floor.

Check for range of output since those inserts took hits on low end output

Yeah, these numbers don't look particularly low.
I've had good luck using the EPA output numbers to compare stoves. The stoves I've run, the numbers seem close when used to compare relative output. You have to use the advanced search, then plug in search terms to find what you want sometimes..

What do they want for that Boxer? I don't normally associate "BK" and "seems like a good value."

 

[swarthyredbeard]

What do they want for that Boxer? I don't normally associate "BK" and "seems like a good value."

$2600 + tax

 

[Woody Stover]

$2600 + tax

Huh. Low, as BKs go..

 

[swarthyredbeard]

Huh. Low, as BKs go..

...I've had good luck using the EPA output numbers

That’s what I was thinking. Fits the space, specs and aesthetic look pretty good.

I’ll play around on there and see what I come up w/

 

[Woody Stover]

That’s what I was thinking. Fits the space, specs and aesthetic look pretty good.

I’ll play around on there and see what I come up w/

As fire view goes, you may not run flame in the box much if you are running low output most of the time. As far as the flame show in a cat, it doesn't matter if the stove is on the floor or not. Having an elevated box does give a better fire view in a secondary-burn stove where the action may be occurring further back in the box.
A lot of times, I'd suggest a non-cat to keep costs and maintenance hassles down, but it this case, with a lot of low burns, it will be less wood used, and less operational hassles vs. a non-cat where you would have to manage load size, reload more often, etc.

 

[Woody Stover]

There is about 9' floor to top of roof. Flat roof = ~11 foot of chimney to get the recommended 15' of draft.

I'm not sure about their other stoves like the Boxer, but I know the 30 boxes can be picky about draft. Burning in those mild conditions, where draft is weaker, I'd want to go more than 15', as a bit of insurance.

$2600 + tax

I see that a couple hundred more would get you a Woodstock Keystone, which I can run at very low output and still have a clean plume, and it will breathe well on a short stack. My BIL is running the Fireview I sold him on 13.5', no problems, even when it's pretty warm out. Thing is, shipping to CA would killya normally; You'd have to lurk and wait for one of their free shipping sales..

 

[swarthyredbeard]

Thing is, shipping to CA would killya normally;

The keystone would definitely be my first choice if room size and shipping prices weren’t a factor. Puts me almost $1k over the boxer and green mountain prices.

also, that Boxer looks to have a removable handle for the bypass and hangs in front when not in use. Product of the insert origins I suppose.

 

[moresnow]

I have a Boxer sitting next to me. Fire away with questions on dimensions etc. I have not ran this stove yet. Can't comment on performance.
I can tell you that the firebox does taper in a bit at the rear compared to the front width. 22 1/2" wide at the door opening between firebrick. 18" wide at the back wall between firebrick. 10" from floor up to flame shield.
Looks like 1 5/8" of ash belly.
16" splits will be max for north south loading. East west would be just less than 18" to fit the taper but I can't see myself ever loading E/W.
The cat probe meter is right on top like the other freestander models. Not located like the inserts.

 

[Woodfire2019]

Hearthstone:
Green mountain 40
Green Mountain 60

Blazeking:
Boxer BX24
Chinook 30.2

Woodstock:
Keystone

Prefered local shops have Blazekings and other decent local shop has Hearthstone.

A close friend with a Woodstock Fireview loves his and highly recommends. Pros: proven design, soapstone. Cons: costs more, higher clearances to combustibles.

I love the under stove wood storage, raised box, big window and super low corner installation clearance of the Boxer. Pro: Costs less, fits very nicely in hearth area Cons: Newer stove.

Saw the Green Mountain line in the shop and like the numbers. Nigel459 on here has spoken very highly of it. Pros: cost within budget, close clearances, smaller stove, Cons: newer stove, two cats, smallest firebox on GM40 for tight e/w loading.

The Hearthstone Green Mountain has two cats? Am I reading that correctly? I took a look on their site and am not seeing that info. That would be a new one.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Hearthstone Green Mountain has two cats? Am I reading that correctly? I took a look on their site and am not seeing that info. That would be a new one.

It looks as if the cat is comprised of two sections, which is the case on the Ws Keystone and Fireview I've seen, but only on their ceramic cats. I haven't seen a two-section steel cat. I can't find one for sale to get a price..may be too new still.

 

[swarthyredbeard]

I have a Boxer sitting next to me. Fire away with questions on dimensions etc. I have not ran this stove yet. Can't comment on performance.
I can tell you that the firebox does taper in a bit at the rear compared to the front width. 22 1/2" wide at the door opening between firebrick. 18" wide at the back wall between firebrick. 10" from floor up to flame shield.
Looks like 1 5/8" of ash belly.
16" splits will be max for north south loading. East west would be just less than 18" to fit the taper but I can't see myself ever loading E/W.
The cat probe meter is right on top like the other freestander models. Not located like the inserts.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear the boxer has decent n/s loading capabilities. I’m still hung up on the removable catalyst control handle though. Seems tedious but if you only need to load it once or twice a day I guess it’s not too bad. Are you pleased with the fit and finish? I’m sure it looks good just curious of your impressions as it’s a new stove and doesn’t have any substantial reviews

The Hearthstone Green Mountain has two cats? Am I reading that correctly? I took a look on their site and am not seeing that info. That would be a new one.

I called my local dealer to chat a bit about the Green Mountain line. He didn’t know the price of the Cats and told me they come with a ten year warranty.
He also said that it’s their #1 selling stove lately. Maybe because they are already in compliance for 2020 and they are trying to ditch old stoves from other brands.

The numbers seem good and now I’m leaning heavily towards the GM60. I called Woodstock to see about shipping prices and sales. They just ended their free shipping + $500 off on their keystone inventory. Now it’s $750 or so to ship... Bummed I missed that one.

Pouring concrete floors today and as soon as they cure enough, insulation is coming in so I need to have that chimney hole figured out this week. Coming down to it!

 

[moresnow]

Pouring concrete floors today and as soon as they cure enough, insulation is coming in so I need to have that chimney hole figured out this week. Coming down to it!

Sounds like things are coming along nicely. Are you insulating under the concrete floor?

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear the boxer has decent n/s loading capabilities. I’m still hung up on the removable catalyst control handle though. Seems tedious but if you only need to load it once or twice a day I guess it’s not too bad. Are you pleased with the fit and finish? I’m sure it looks good just curious of your impressions as it’s a new stove and doesn’t have any substantial reviews

The Cat control handle is certainly different compared to my Sirocco. It doesn't feel like it will be a burden. The F/F seems similar to my Sirocco. Nice. Actually, I have not ran across a F/F issue of significance on the BK's I've been around.
One thing I can tell you to consider. Have help getting this unit moved/installed if you go this route. It's much like other good sized stoves. Heavy!

Northern California coast (think Oregon coast)

Seems your location/atmospheric conditions may be rather similiar to BK's home territory/development area. Will you be burning primarily softwoods by chance? I am very impressed with my stoves capability to utilize softwood efficiently (Pine).
Good luck on your project no matter what make/model stove you purchase. Keep up with updates here.

 

[Highbeam]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear the boxer has decent n/s loading capabilities. I’m still hung up on the removable catalyst control handle though. Seems tedious but if you only need to load it once or twice a day I guess it’s not too bad. Are you pleased with the fit and finish? I’m sure it looks good just curious of your impressions as it’s a new stove and doesn’t have any substantial reviews



I called my local dealer to chat a bit about the Green Mountain line. He didn’t know the price of the Cats and told me they come with a ten year warranty.
He also said that it’s their #1 selling stove lately. Maybe because they are already in compliance for 2020 and they are trying to ditch old stoves from other brands.

The numbers seem good and now I’m leaning heavily towards the GM60. I called Woodstock to see about shipping prices and sales. They just ended their free shipping + $500 off on their keystone inventory. Now it’s $750 or so to ship... Bummed I missed that one.

Pouring concrete floors today and as soon as they cure enough, insulation is coming in so I need to have that chimney hole figured out this week. Coming down to it!

When choosing the location for the hole be careful to leave a few extra inches away from the wall for the sake of flexibility for future stoves, easy cleaning, and a little extra safety. It is not easy to go back and get another 2” when you want a different stove. Many (most?) of us here have had multiple stove upgrades over the years.

 

[moresnow]

When choosing the location for the hole be careful to leave a few extra inches away from the wall for the sake of flexibility for future stoves, easy cleaning, and a little extra safety. It is not easy to go back and get another 2” when you want a different stove. Many (most?) of us here have had multiple stove upgrades over the years.

Most excellent advice.