I installed a brand new Jotul 600 Firelight this summer. A corner installation, rear and bottom heat shields and double wall stove pipe. According to the manual I can be as close as 9" to the wall from the back corners of the stove. I have 12" on each side so, I felt safe, until now. I have run the stove a few times around 450 degrees and the walls around the stove get so hot I can't keep my hand on them (I'm guessing that means they are up over 150 degrees). I'm concerned that when winter comes and I am running the stove closer to 600 degrees. Any input would be appreciated.
should I trust the clearances listed in the manual
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I agree, that doesn't sound good. If I were you, I'd find a way to add a wall shield with spacers. It stinks that there is no product out there that looks like wall board that's heat proof.
I agree that if it is that hot when the stove is at 450 there is a real problem. A stove at 600 degrees releases 100% more surface heat and being bombarded 24/7, I too would be really concerned. Have you spoken to Jotul yet? Just wondering if there is a known design flaw with the heat shields..
It would be good to measure the temp. The clearance for corner with shields and double wall pipe is 10", so this install should have a margin of safety. That's good.
FWIW, at 130 degrees, the wall will feel scaldingly hot. Paper burns at 451 deg. F, so I wouldn't freakout quite yet. Pick up an infrared surface thermometer at Sears, Harbor Freight, Radio Shack, etc. or borrow one and measure the wall surface temps when the stove is at normal operating temps.
If you do find the wall temps high, what are the options? One would be to install wall shielding behind the stove. The other might be to change the flue collar to rear exit, with a double-wall 90 right after the takeoff. That would increase the distance from the walls. This is the way my stove is setup. I have 15" from the corner wall to the stove. The walls have never gotten excessively hot, even with a 700 degree fire.
FWIW, at 130 degrees, the wall will feel scaldingly hot. Paper burns at 451 deg. F, so I wouldn't freakout quite yet. Pick up an infrared surface thermometer at Sears, Harbor Freight, Radio Shack, etc. or borrow one and measure the wall surface temps when the stove is at normal operating temps.
If you do find the wall temps high, what are the options? One would be to install wall shielding behind the stove. The other might be to change the flue collar to rear exit, with a double-wall 90 right after the takeoff. That would increase the distance from the walls. This is the way my stove is setup. I have 15" from the corner wall to the stove. The walls have never gotten excessively hot, even with a 700 degree fire.
I spoke with the dealer a few days ago... he said "if you are with in the clearance shown in the manual you should be safe"... gee thanks!! I spoke with a Jotul rep from their Portland ME plant today. He said that their stoves are tested at 117 degrees plus abeint (187????).... I am no expert but, should I feel comfortable with that???
I plan on going to Sears to buy an infrared surface thermometer today after work. I will let you know my findings after I run the stove again. I am considering ways to get the stove out further from the corner (if I have too)... I appreciate the suggestions. I thought about using the rear vent or to continue with the top vent with two 45s... the problem there I already have one 90 going into the chimney about a foot and a half above the stove.
I am also considering wall coverings but.... I'd rather not if I don't have too. Would cement board and tile right over the sheetrock without an air space be okay??
I plan on going to Sears to buy an infrared surface thermometer today after work. I will let you know my findings after I run the stove again. I am considering ways to get the stove out further from the corner (if I have too)... I appreciate the suggestions. I thought about using the rear vent or to continue with the top vent with two 45s... the problem there I already have one 90 going into the chimney about a foot and a half above the stove.
I am also considering wall coverings but.... I'd rather not if I don't have too. Would cement board and tile right over the sheetrock without an air space be okay??
- Nov 12, 2006
- 66
I have nearly the exact situation. Jotul Oslo 500 corner install with rear heatshield. My gypsum board walls get very hot to the touch when the stove is going. I am beyond the clearances by two inches. I am not comfortable with this as all. I'll be installing a sheet metal heat shield with the spacing for this season.
I don't think that they would recommend those clearances unless they were safe. How would it ever get through the tests and get listed otherwise?
that is what I tell myself.... "Jotul must know what they are doing". But, that is not helping me sleep at night. I can not leave my hand on the wall for over a second with the stove running at 450 degrees. How hot will the wall get when I am running the stove 24/7 and at temperatures closer to 600 than 400? I confirmed with the dealer that I am measuring the clearance properly (not rocket science but wanted to make sure) and I am 12" where the manual says I only need 9"......
Well if you need that much more confirmation that your safe get your thermometer fire that sucker up take the readings and call Jotul back. Still I wouldn't be concerned if you've double checked your compliance with installation instructions.
slim said:
187 degrees is 264 degrees below ignition point for the paper on the sheetrock. If 187 is the absolute maximum temp the wall will see, it will be hot, but ok.
Let us know what you get for surface temps. It will be good to know. If you do decide to put up a wall shield, it must have an air space to be effective. The simplest one is just sheetmetal, which can be painted with high temp paint. But it needs the air gap at the top and bottom and spaced 1" from the wall.
the clearances are actually determined by the testing lab. not the manufacturer. i would be concerned too personaly. as that sounds odd to me. we have some close clearances with some of our units too and i havent run into any issues from them , my 24-ac set 8 inches (manual listed 6 but i needed the room to turn the flue into the wall thimble) from my wall (with factory bolt on the stove heat shield) and the wall didnt ever get to where i couldnt hold my hand on it with the unit routinely running in the 600 degree range and the cat rolling along at 1000 F.
Be green what you say is true about paper but most walls have paint on them And constant exposure will change and reduce its flash point of paper
If you're not comfortable with it install the heat shields. IMO, if it makes you sleep better at night it's well worth the effort.
Sounds like you need to modify that back wall as suggested for your own peace of mind. You have a "gut" instinct and good common sense. Follow your instinct even if it does create more work for you up front.
When you say heat shield what are you talking about?
Does anyone have a link to a heat shield?
I have a similar setup, but as of now have never fired the stove and I figure I will have high temps.
Does anyone have a link to a heat shield?
I have a similar setup, but as of now have never fired the stove and I figure I will have high temps.
I agree with those who recommend installing a wall protection since I think it's the only thing that will give you peace of mind.
Another approach would be to do an exhaustive study of thermal properties of your wall materials, the test procedures, and your own ability to withstand pain.
Bottom line - if you don't trust the manual why will you trust a bunch a weekend warriors sitting here pounding on our keyboards?
FWIW, most humans can withstand about 110 degrees F on their skin before they have to pull away from the pain. Your wall can withstand about 200 degrees before pyrolysis becomes a threat. Without a measuring device on that wall you cannot say for sure if there is a problem.
If you do decide to protect the wall it is not necessary to use an air space. It is a misconception by many that an air space is REQUIRED to protect the wall. In many cases it is the easiest approach but there are other ways of accomplishing your goal of protecting the combustible wall. Another simple approach is to use thermal insulation blanket behind a cement board panel and then skim the panel to make it look just like your sheetrock wall. Consult the current NFPA 211 for directions on this techique.
Sean
Another approach would be to do an exhaustive study of thermal properties of your wall materials, the test procedures, and your own ability to withstand pain.
Bottom line - if you don't trust the manual why will you trust a bunch a weekend warriors sitting here pounding on our keyboards?
FWIW, most humans can withstand about 110 degrees F on their skin before they have to pull away from the pain. Your wall can withstand about 200 degrees before pyrolysis becomes a threat. Without a measuring device on that wall you cannot say for sure if there is a problem.
If you do decide to protect the wall it is not necessary to use an air space. It is a misconception by many that an air space is REQUIRED to protect the wall. In many cases it is the easiest approach but there are other ways of accomplishing your goal of protecting the combustible wall. Another simple approach is to use thermal insulation blanket behind a cement board panel and then skim the panel to make it look just like your sheetrock wall. Consult the current NFPA 211 for directions on this techique.
Sean
Our Jotul heatshield is angled at the top to conform to the firebox. You can't look down from the top and see an airspace. But you can see the air gap (about 1/2") if you examine it. There are standoffs that hold the shield at a uniform distance from the stove back.
Good post Sean. At 130 degrees you will feel great pain if you try to hold your hand on the surface. Yet it is safe. Hot water pipes are running at 180 degrees, often touching wood, all winter long.
Frequently on this site we are told religiously that the stove manual is the clearance bible, for us and for inspectors. The stove manufacturer has done the engineering and testing to establish safe clearances. Now that is suspect, oh well. Bottom line, if you need personal peace of mind, by all means increase the wall protection. There are several options.
Good post Sean. At 130 degrees you will feel great pain if you try to hold your hand on the surface. Yet it is safe. Hot water pipes are running at 180 degrees, often touching wood, all winter long.
Frequently on this site we are told religiously that the stove manual is the clearance bible, for us and for inspectors. The stove manufacturer has done the engineering and testing to establish safe clearances. Now that is suspect, oh well. Bottom line, if you need personal peace of mind, by all means increase the wall protection. There are several options.
update... it finally got cold enough for me to run my stove again. I purchased a laser infrared thermometer and found the following... the stove is at 350 degrees (which matches the magnetic thermostat on the stove) right now..... and the wall is at 170 degrees. Obviously I have an issue. Product defect (heat shield or stove)? I
Sean,
Thanks for you input, I agree with BeGreen... good post, a lot of what you said was educational to me.
Thanks
Sean,
Thanks for you input, I agree with BeGreen... good post, a lot of what you said was educational to me.
Thanks
Slim if your dealer or the manufacturer comes up with a fix or finds the defect please post it here I will be very curious to see what the problem is. I was a bit dissapointed in my set up as well. I have double wall pipe exiting my 600 firelight straigt up and the rear heatshield installed. The manual called for a 8 inch to combustibles behind the stove, I'm at 8 1/2 inches and the sheetrock is at times painfull to touch from the heat. With the stove top temp hovering at 600 for a couple of hours the max temp I recorded was 139 which made me feel much better. I wish I would have put the stove further away from the wall (I would feel better if the wall was only luke warm to the touch). Even though 139 is well below any ignition point its a bit stressfull knowing that at times my wall is too hot to keep my hand on.
I had the same problem with our H.S. homestead on the side wall, spec was 16 in. to combustibles and temp would occasionally get to 190 deg. on the wall. I was going to build a heat-shield out of the old tin type ceiling panels but figured it was easier to move the stove out another 3.5 in. instead. So far the temp has only gotten into the 140's with the stove top at 480 deg.
snowfreak said:
139 degrees is well within comfort zone as far as pyrolysis is concerned. I think you can sleep safe at night. If lukewarm is the goal, install a heat shield.
slim said:
That sounds like it could be an issue. What are your options? Can you move the stove further away from the wall?
Are those clearances supposed to be to a non cumbustible? I am currently shopping around for a stove, and I have noticed that jotul's clearances are a lot closer than all other manufacturers I have looked at. The f400 w/double wall pipe/rear heat shield to a non cumbstible is 7". I want my stove as close to the wall as possible to conserve room space, so I thought this was a great feature about jutul. Now, after reading your post I am not sure. I think consulting the local FD isn't a bad idea for you. I don't know how handy you are, or if it's in the budget, but cultured stone might be a way to fix your problem while adding beauty/value to the home. Just a thought. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Keep us informed.
Snowfreak, I was just looking at the jotul 600 manual, and they actually call for 8" from the back of the stove to the wall. That's with double wall pipe and rear heat shield. 6" is the pipe clearance stated in the manual, but you said your stove is 7.5" away. Just double check your setup for safety purposes.
I just realized I should probably PM you with this to make sure you see this!
I just realized I should probably PM you with this to make sure you see this!
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