Several newb questions after talking local chimney guy.

[FarmHouse]

I had a local chimney guy, with good review on Angie's List, stop by and see what I had going on with my place. I was interested in a wood insert for the fireplace and a stand alone oven for a big living room. He basically concluded the chimney insert could work, but it wouldn't look good since the 'front' is not flush/flat....the front is of natural stone, but not even so it wouldn't be a flush fit. So he recommended I take my time with that and maybe repair the fireplace.

Sorry for the blurry image. This was before the owners moved out:

Then we went to the living room, which is an addition (no 2nd floor)......from memory the room is 50' x 20' (?) and a asphalt roof. He recommended a 3000 sq ft oven with an 8in outlet. I asked about a price for the whole thing (install, oven, venting, etc) and got more of a.....well its expensive, these aren't cheap, the 3 walled liners are expensive, you have to do this, you have to do this. I asked if he had to give me a price now, which he replied at $5000 (including the stove if I bought it myself).

I understand there are venting and heat safety issues, but hard is it to install it yourself? I started looking at a Napolean 1900 manual and how they recommend to vent it. I believe I have enough room around the vent outside (10+ ft away from the 2nd floor even with the oven 3ft away from the wall). It's hard to tell from this picture the dimensions of the living room.

So am I asking for trouble for even thinking of DIY? I'd hate to eat $5k when it could be done for $2k (?).


Again, go easy.........I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The first thing I want to ask is, "What do you want out of your stove?" By this, do you want to heat the entire house? Do you want to heat only the family room? Is the stove primarily for ambiance? How long do you want to go between reloads?

Is the family room insulated? Looking at the house pic the house doesn't look like a new one so is it insulated?


______________________________________
Welcome to the forum!

As far as the fireplace goes, whether or not it will look right is only up to your wife, and maybe you get a say too.

The cost of the install in your family room really depends on what you want and how you want it to look. Raised hearth, tiles, insulation for the floor... too many variables. For the chimney height and your 10-3-2 rule you will want the chimney to extend above the 2nd story roof of the house... or above the living space. What can happen when the chimney is shorter is the house has a tendency to become a chimney because it drafts better than your actual chimney. Smoke and smells can be pulled into the house from the stove. If the wind comes over the house and down your chimney you can also get smoke into the house.

As far as heating 3000 sq ft, if you are trying to heat the entire house this may be sized correctly. If you are only trying to heat the family room it's a little big. Before anybody can start making meaningful suggestions we'll need a bit more information.



Matt

 

[dave11]

Everything mentioned by EBL above is right on. For my part, I'll say that I recently installed a woodstove that I purchased, after careful review, and had the liner placed by a local sweep, mainly because my chimney has somewhat dangerous access.

Even so, the sweep would have happily done things incorrectly if I had let him, though I suspect more from lack of awareness than from shiftiness. He had been highly rec'd by my insurance agent (!)

My advice is to learn about the whole process, so you can plan it and oversee it yourself. It can be certainly done DIY if you're handy and patient and careful. Be careful about what your local sweeps say, and be very careful about any salespeople that try to advise you.

 

[FarmHouse]

EBL - The goal of the stove(s) is two part: to supplement the existing heat and ambiance. Like everything with this house, I'm just starting to do my research now. The house has oil heat, while the addition has a heat pump. Currently, it's only me in the house (what was I thinking?).

The addition (family room) is the coldest part of the house (not insulated). I expect this area to get used the most because it's going to be the TV/pool table/bar area. I'd like to have something to heat this area so that the heat pump isn't constantly running. Will it get insulated?....eventually, but not soon. In addition, I'm out of the house during the day for work, so it would be great if I could get some heat going in the evening, then let the heat pump take over in the morning before I leave. I'm not sure what to make about your comment of extending the stove's chimney above the house. While it's easily doable, it could possibly cause me problems with HOA's, but also the view --- the house is on a hill and can be seen from the main strip. A tall shiny pipe right in the center of the addition would spoil that. I was hoping not to have to extend it about the 2nd floor.

For the fireplace, same deal -- to supplement the oil heat for the first floor, but also put the den to good use. It's basically a den area with a fireplace and that's what I'd like to use it for. Unfortunately for me, my check book will have the last say about the fireplace. And the chimney guy was probably right...do that last and take my time with it. It's seems like the stand alone stove for the addition can be had quicker and cheaper.

Given that information, can you recommend anything (a good brand/model/etc) for the addition/living room? I will take measurements tomorrow to get the sq footage. The fireplace is on hold, but I figured it was worth asking about my options with it.

thanks!


Dave - where in western PA are you? Maybe you aren't that far that you could recommend a dealer/sweep/installer? (you can PM if you prefer)

 

[jtp10181]

We did a 4100i on very uneven stone last month. There are gaps around the panel due to the jagged face of the cutomers stone. He did not mind... so.. thing still works the same.

If its going to be a problem you can always backfill around the panel with mortar to fill in the gaps. Thatcomes out looking nice if done correctly.

 

[FarmHouse]

We did a 4100i on very uneven stone last month. There are gaps around the panel due to the jagged face of the cutomers stone. He did not mind... so.. thing still works the same.

If its going to be a problem you can always backfill around the panel with mortar to fill in the gaps. Thatcomes out looking nice if done correctly.

Do you happen to have any pictures? I would be very interested in that. One thing the chimney guy mentioned, was that some flashing (metal) was around the top of the fireplace, because "....it was probably too big they had air flow issues." Not sure if that will affect the insert? But after measuring, he did say it would fit no problem.



EBL - Could you humor me (I'm very new to this) and give me a rough estimate at what it would take to convert my huge, inefficient 50 yr old oil furnace to a wood/pellet heating system. Reason I ask is I'm currently talking to a excavator and the gas company about quoting a gas line install. I figure I got 150 - 200 ft to trench to the street, then purchase/install a new gas furnace.....so it won't be cheap. On the other hand, since the 2nd floor will be unoccupied and the first floor will only be heated in the evenings/weekends (plus the other stove/heat pump in the living room)...is this an option I should even explorer? This could be a cheaper alternative for me. And later on, I would always add a h.e. heat pump to complement the stove. So I would end up with a 2 zone house, with each zone having a heat pump/stove as heat.

 

[jtp10181]

Sorry no pictures. And the trim could be taken off when a wood insert is put in. Since the insert will have its own flue liner system the undersized flue of the existing fireplace would not effect it. I assume the existing fireplace opening was too large for the flue and causing smoke to come back in so they reduced the opening size with the metal trim you speak of.

 

[FarmHouse]

Sorry no pictures. And the trim could be taken off when a wood insert is put in. Since the insert will have its own flue liner system the undersized flue of the existing fireplace would not effect it. I assume the existing fireplace opening was too large for the flue and causing smoke to come back in so they reduced the opening size with the metal trim you speak of.

Yup, that was the gist of what he said. Having just finished a 2nd floor remodel, I know nothing will ever be perfect. So I'm willing to accept something that's not eye candy, and patching the edges with mortar would be fine with me (at least until the next remodel in 15 yrs

 

[dave11]

Dave - where in western PA are you? Maybe you aren't that far that you could recommend a dealer/sweep/installer? (you can PM if you prefer)

I'd be perfectly willing to tell you the sweep's name, though I thought I knocked him pretty hard. You might want to ask around for others.

I'm just north of Pittsburgh.

You mentioned an oil furnace and wood heat. Do you not have natural gas availability?

 

[FarmHouse]

Dave - where in western PA are you? Maybe you aren't that far that you could recommend a dealer/sweep/installer? (you can PM if you prefer)

I'd be perfectly willing to tell you the sweep's name, though I thought I knocked him pretty hard. You might want to ask around for others.

I'm just north of Pittsburgh.

You mentioned an oil furnace and wood heat. Do you not have natural gas availability?

Oh oh......wonder if you're one of the neighbors with a stove?

Natural gas is available, but I need to trench about 150ft for the line, tap into the main, and get a new furnace. Someone from the utility will be out tomorrow. After that, the excavator can give me a quote once we know how far we need to trench.

Ideally I would like to avoid it, but it's a long term investment. I wrote out the current setup a few posts up.

 

[Hogwildz]

Just an idea here. After you chose an insert. You could mock it in with the surround on, then pencil or scribe a line along the original stone face along the outside of the surround edge, then with a masonry or diamond blade in a gas saw, cut a groove along where the surround edges rest, make a metal trim pc that sets into the groove and rests or mounted to the surround. Paint it same or fancy color whatever and it would close the gaps off along the irregular stones & surround.

 

[savageactor7]

Another idea is taking a sledge and bashing that fireplace out of existence and putting a wood stove in there. That can be done for 2k plus you would be a lot warmer.

 

[greythorn3]

ya i liek the bash it out of there idea! it looks to much like marshmellows!

 

[FarmHouse]

I think I jinxed myself =(

Haven't had much use for the oil furnace, been using the heat pump mostly. But it's been really chilly lately. I fire up the beast, it runs fine....heat is nice and cozy. Problem is there is a 'sweet/sour' smell coming from the vents, not near the furnace area. I'm worried its a cracked exchanger or something. Hopefully just a leak somewhere. Looked inside, didnt see any major cracks.

 

[moosetrek]

Not sure how prices in PA compare, but I expect similar in most areas. That said, we completed a full tile raised hearth ($250), 25' of double-wall pipe and Class A Chimney ($750), 25' of outside air kit (optional) and stove in sig. ($900 approx.) last winter. Total is a little over $2K INCLUDING STOVE. Definitely exceeded all specs for insurance. Labor involved was probably 1-2 weekends including a couple trips to Home Depot. I would venture to say that $5K was a bit high. From your post about having completed the second floor remodel, I'm inferring that you can tell one end of a hammer from the other, and could therefore (if you chose) complete this project pretty easily yourself. As for the HOA, other than the obvious answer of tell them where they can go unless they want to pay your heating bill , I'd look into options for painting the chimney with high-temp paint. Would be pretty easy and cheap, and probably make them happy(ier). Stove definitely heats the place up, although not sure a NC-30 would do 3,000 feet it might come close with some good hardwood and a strong draft. Definitely enough for the family room.

 

[FarmHouse]

Not sure how prices in PA compare, but I expect similar in most areas. That said, we completed a full tile raised hearth ($250), 25' of double-wall pipe and Class A Chimney ($750), 25' of outside air kit (optional) and stove in sig. ($900 approx.) last winter. Total is a little over $2K INCLUDING STOVE. Definitely exceeded all specs for insurance. Labor involved was probably 1-2 weekends including a couple trips to Home Depot. I would venture to say that $5K was a bit high. From your post about having completed the second floor remodel, I'm inferring that you can tell one end of a hammer from the other, and could therefore (if you chose) complete this project pretty easily yourself. As for the HOA, other than the obvious answer of tell them where they can go unless they want to pay your heating bill , I'd look into options for painting the chimney with high-temp paint. Would be pretty easy and cheap, and probably make them happy(ier). Stove definitely heats the place up, although not sure a NC-30 would do 3,000 feet it might come close with some good hardwood and a strong draft. Definitely enough for the family room.

That's what I was hoping to hear. While I didn't do the whole remodel myself (3 br, 1 bath, 1 new bath, 2 hallways) I pretty much GC'ed it. Had to watch the laborers like a hawk. After 30 days, I decided I would never hire anyone again to remodel my place except for the Amish, which I want to contact soon. Wonder how handy they are with stoves?

I just measured the living room: 15 x 40 = 600 sq ft. Also, I forgot to mention that the living room and den are adjacent to each over, not directly but very close together. Wonder if I can just a big stove for the living that could heat the whole downstairs?


My 30 days of he**:

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Sorry it took so long to get back.

I think you would get the best bang for the buck by having the walls and ceiling of the family room insulated. Since you will be spending the most time there you will see huge gains in comfort and the heat pump will be on much less. You could also get by with a smaller heater... Smaller heaters use less fuel.

Your oil heat, is it a boiler or forced hot air?

If the chimney is an issue, you may want to check out pellet stoves. Some like the flame (not a fan of it here), and you can fill the hopper up so you can get a nice long burn that could make it so you don't have to use the heat pump at all. OR, maybe it would allow you to use the heat pump to heat the rest of the house at a low cost.

Many of us, me included, started thinking we would use the stove in the evenings to take a little bight of the chill and save a bit on the cost of fuel for heating. IME the nice steady heat becomes an addiction and you will use it all the time. It's a good thing, because wood fired space heaters don't move heat like a central heating system does. The heat radiates from the stove to warm the room it's in. Then the heat creeps, yes creeps, toward the other rooms in the house warming the farthest away the least. If you only run the stove for a few hours a night it will help a little, but it's hard for the heat to make it all the way to the furthest rooms.

Since you are in PA, have you looked into coal?

Matt