Settling on a stove

[elmbrooker]

My wife wants a long burn time. I want sufficient heat for about 800sqft with a VERY tall ceiling that is drafty and poorly insulated. This space also houses our family room so we need something comfortable enough to sit next to. I have it narrowed down and have all but decided on a Hearthstone Manchester. The other option is to redo the stove pipe in 8" single wall until the double wall pass through of the ceiling/roof and put in a HearthStone Green Mountain 80. The Jotul F 55 Carrabassett is very attractive with the N/S burn, 6" outlet, and high BTU output but I have reservations about 2 things. 1. it will chase us out of the room, rendering the space unusable and 2. if the fire goes out, the stove will not continue to radiate heat making it more difficult to keep the room from dipping close to outdoor temps. I'm working on sealing drafts as I find them so hopefully, we will see some heat retention efficiency increases that way. We currently have a Jotul F 400 Castine and it is not large enough to heat the space or keep a fire going overnight. So my questions are:

Will I regret the Manchester? What issues might I see? I haven't heard much on the 2020s.

Does the Green Mountain 80 have an edge that warrants upsizing the existing stove pipe from 6" to 8"?

I know that people love the Carrabassett but is this the right application for the stove?

I'm not afraid of a cat, if it's what it takes to get the right stove. If I get the Manchester, it will be in the enamel because water drips down the pipe in heave rain and the stove is likely to develop rust. I don't like the idea of painting it all the time, but I will if I need to. Does anyone have experience with either of the HearthStones, especially burning full time? This is in NH. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Heat loss is your enemy. Money spent on addressing that issue will payback forever.
Cast iron jacketed stoves are more convective than radiant. They are not uncomfortable close by and the mass of the cast iron jacket slowly releases heat even after the fire dies down. In this manner, the heat is similar to a soapstone stove, but much more durable. For that reason the CI jacketed F55 would be preferable to the strongly radiant Manchester. But I think the Jotul F45 or the PE Alderlea T5 might be a better fit.

Is there a ceiling fan at the peak in this room? It will be necessary to circulate the hot air that will pocket up high.

 

[Highbeam]

So the room is 800 SF but is the home larger? Stoves do heat the space they are located well but they also are capable of heating much more of the home through walls, doorways, ceilings, halls, etc. We often have new members sizing the stove based on just the one room that has the hearth which is a mistake.

I owned a modern 2.3 cubic foot noncat hearthstone stove for many years and about 30 cords of fuel. It performed as advertised and was capable of overnight burns. This was a heritage model and looked great but ultimately it was too fragile and not intended for serious heating, the no serviceable hinges wore out and the low efficiency and slow warm up of stone stoves really started to become a bother.

 

[elmbrooker]

Heat loss is your enemy. Money spent on addressing that issue will payback forever.
Cast iron jacketed stoves are more convective than radiant. They are not uncomfortable close by and the mass of the cast iron jacket slowly releases heat even after the fire dies down. In this manner, the heat is similar to a soapstone stove, but much more durable. For that reason the CI jacketed F55 would be preferable to the strongly radiant Manchester. But I think the Jotul F45 or the PE Alderlea T5 might be a better fit.

Is there a ceiling fan at the peak in this room? It will be necessary to circulate the hot air that will pocket up high.

There is a ceiling fan. We are also buying a pellet stove so we are hoping to stick with this dealer for both purchases to get a better deal but they don't carry PE. The F45 won't give us the burn times we're looking for. The main drawback of the F55 that I can see is that speaking with a few people who burn them in cellars, once the fire is out they cool down in about 30 minutes. They have found the soapstone lined cast iron stoves to hold heat for an additional four hours. I have heard great things about PE and I think I'll look at the T6 a bit more and weigh my options of using two different dealers.

 

[elmbrooker]

So the room is 800 SF but is the home larger? Stoves do heat the space they are located well but they also are capable of heating much more of the home through walls, doorways, ceilings, halls, etc. We often have new members sizing the stove based on just the one room that has the hearth which is a mistake.

I owned a modern 2.3 cubic foot noncat hearthstone stove for many years and about 30 cords of fuel. It performed as advertised and was capable of overnight burns. This was a heritage model and looked great but ultimately it was too fragile and not intended for serious heating, the no serviceable hinges wore out and the low efficiency and slow warm up of stone stoves really started to become a bother.

So this is a small old farmhouse with a connected barn. A portion of the shed connecting the house and barn as well as a portion of the barn were finished(ish) to increase living space. The shed is heated with electricity currently and getting a pellet stove that will hopefully heat into the main portion of the house, which is slightly more insulated and less drafty. The barn area has a kerosene heater that is very expensive to run all winter and won't run in power outages. We want to be able to heat the room to about 60ºF during power outages and ideally be able to get some of that heat into the house through the shed hallway. This house is cold - pet water bowls have frozen on cold nights due to the drafts - and we are looking into insulation options, but can't afford to keep heating the way we have been. My Castine was not able to keep the room (partly due to the tall ceilings, partly due to drafts/poor insulation) even in the mid 50s overnight during power outages so the size of the stoves I'm looking at is based on that fact.

 

[Highbeam]

This house is cold - pet water bowls have frozen on cold nights due to the drafts - and we are looking into insulation options, but can't afford to keep heating the way we have been.

I would stop looking at hearthstones and look at large plate steel stoves. They are usually much cheaper, more output, and easier to keep hot all night. You can always burn a smaller fire or no fire if you get warm.

 

[begreen]

By addressing the heat loss, the stove choice and satisfaction will be higher. Also, in your area take a look at the Woodstock stoves. The Ideal Steel and Progress Hybrid may be a good fit.

 

[elmbrooker]

I would stop looking at hearthstones and look at large plate steel stoves. They are usually much cheaper, more output, and easier to keep hot all night. You can always burn a smaller fire or no fire if you get warm.

Do you think by burning a smaller fire if it gets too hot to be close to the stove, we can still heat the space? That has been my concern with the steel stoves. We had a steel stove from the 70s in there before the Jotul and that thing when through wood very quickly, was uncomfortable to be within 6 feet of and didn't radiate enough heat to fill the space unless it was burning fast. We had the Jotul already and put it in there. That was more comfortable to be near, burned much more efficiently, and was just too small. I'm certainly open to stoves other than HearthStones but from my experience (which admittedly isn't much - one winter with steel in this space and one with cast iron and having steel and cast iron growing up and at previous houses) I'm weary of steel for this application.

 

[begreen]

There is little to compare with a steel smoke dragon from the 70s and the modern Castine, except that they are both radiant stoves. We had the Castine prior to the Alderlea. It was a nice stove and a good looker. The heat was good in normal WA winter weather but couldn't heat the house well when temps got below 20 unless it was fed like a locomotive. Typical reload time during a bad cold snap was every few hours and that was with a fair amount of room temperature swing, especially overnight. The T6 has been a very different experience. It heats the house better and longer with little room temperature swing. The T6 is based on the Summit and a steel stove at heart.

 

[elmbrooker]

By addressing the heat loss, the stove choice and satisfaction will be higher. Also, in your area take a look at the Woodstock stoves. The Ideal Steel and Progress Hybrid may be a good fit.

I did call Woodstock and they recommended the Ideal Steel for this application but it's rated for less square footage that the Manchester and BTU output is only slightly higher 37,583 vs. 33,038 with lower efficiency and higher emissions. Plus my wife thinks it's ugly. They suggested the soapstone may not get be enough to heat the space, which I don't quite understand since the BTU output is up to 47,220. Addressing the heat loss is on my long list of to-dos around here.

 

[BKVP]

My 1895 house had more leaks than I thought! As I removed plank inside (under sheetrock) and tongue and groove, I found dozens and dozens of leaks. We dropped our wood use this past winter by an entire cord. I burn a Blaze King King model, but after tightening up the house...a small unit would accomplish the job.

BeGreen is correct, invest in tightening up the house. You may find your current stove would actually do the job of overnight burns with less heat demand.

 

[elmbrooker]

My 1895 house had more leaks than I thought! As I removed plank inside (under sheetrock) and tongue and groove, I found dozens and dozens of leaks. We dropped our wood use this past winter by an entire cord. I burn a Blaze King King model, but after tightening up the house...a small unit would accomplish the job.

BeGreen is correct, invest in tightening up the house. You may find your current stove would actually do the job of overnight burns with less heat demand.

Unfortunately, doing that in the room the stove is located means framing new interior walls for insulation so it's going to be a bit of a project. I hope to get some house wrap up when it comes time to replace the exterior wood. Many of the drafts come up from the essentially open air cellar. The space is basically unconditioned but makes up about half of our square footage. Luckily I prefer it a bit on the cool side. Summers are rough though.

 

[BKVP]

Can you spray insulation in cellar to help?

 

[elmbrooker]

Can you spray insulation in cellar to help?

There's currently foam board screwed to the underside of the floor. It's timber-framed and essentially outdoors. I've heard of rodents burrowing in spray foam so I'm not sure it's our best option.

 

[moresnow]

There's currently foam board screwed to the underside of the floor. It's timber-framed and essentially outdoors. I've heard of rodents burrowing in spray foam so I'm not sure it's our best option.

Your gonna need a bigger boat.

I mean stove........

All kidding aside. How about posting some pics of this place? Might help out with further recommendations.