Sealing up a USSC 2421

[shortymac83]

I know, I know..it's the death stove.

I have a Logwood in my workshop. The previous owner of the house had a double barrel 55 gallon barrel wood stove, and apparently could get my half-insulated, very leaky shop so hot that he'd be sweating. I don't have one. I do have this crappy Logwood stove. It was left in the garage of a rental property I have, and figured, it's free..why not use it?

So, I scrubbed it down, painted it with engine exhaust paint, and sealed the door. Now I'm a bit lost.

I don't expect it to burn for a crazy long period of time, but this is kinda nuts. I have a thermostat on it, and I can barely get 400* out of a roaring fire on the top plates, while the pipe will read 6-700+. The stove appears to be a good casting, but it's leaky as heck - you can see flame through the plates on the top.

I'm thinking we need more sealing, but I don't exactly know what to do. Should I use asbestos cord (well, whatever the door seal is made of) to seal the panels to each other? Is there something adhesive I would be able to use to seal the thing? The best I can think of is copper Permatex stuff, but that's only rated to 700, and if I get an overfire, I'd be kinda screwed. Should I try to seal the ash cleanout?

Currently, the setup is that the stove is sitting on four cinderblocks, running a 36" pipe to a 90* bend, to another 36* pipe, through the corrugated steel wall (with a transfer box) with another 90*, then about 8 ft of pipe up the side of the shop to clear the roof. I have a grate inside, but am not running any kind of firebrick.

So, the TL:DR version:

1. Should I use firebrick in the bottom instead of the grate?
2. What can I use to seal the top plates?
3. Should I seal the ash cleanout?
4. What do I do to seal the plates to each other?

Thanks in advance guys...

 

[webby3650]

Get rid of the grate, they should not be used in a many wood stove. Furnace cement is about the only thing that will withstand the heat.
Does the flue collar have a pipe damper installed? If not, add one about 18" above the stove.

 

[jatoxico]

I think @CheapBassTurd did quite a bit on a 2421.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Thanks for tagging me.
This thing needs some help to be safe, and yes, sealed up big time.

It has the fiberglass/ asbestos looking rope between all of the cast plates already.
None of the burner plates nor the center piece fit together well.

The nutshell version of creating safety and much more heat:

Disclaimer:
This was just what I came up with and there may be a better way to do this.
I used the Dremel and bench grinder both to get all the top 4 pieces to mate
tightly. In small increments, Hit the parts where they already touch the others
as that's a high spot getting in the way of the rest of the piece mating with it's
counterpart. Once it fit together well and only cracks of light could be seen with
a flashlight it got sealed with Rutland brand furnace cement and I don't lift any of those
out once now cemented.
I packed the entire drawer with sand so as not to waste the bucket of cement but
still did a cement wall where the door closes so it sealed a tight bottom where there's
no gasket surface and a major intake leak. Closing the door first time pressed the cement
into the shape needed so definitely do this before the stuff sets up hard.
Where every casting piece meets I did a bead of cement along the inside walls so it still
looks pretty on the outside but now has the gasket as well as the cement seal.
Used a tube and silicone gun of Rutland black gasket sealant around the outside facing joints
(now triple sealed). Factory gasket in the center, tub cement on the inside of the firebox, and
the pretty stuff in the tube sealing the adjoining outside joints.
Maybe overkill, but this is an indoor unit and the family safety comes to the forefront.

Closing the front screw now shuts it down completely starving ALL flames in seconds.

The bottom has one full layer of firebrick over 1/2" of sand in the flooring. The hearth only gets warm
to the touch at it's hottest. The bricks have sand in between to there's 3" of insulation from hot coals to
the bottom of the unit.
I let the sidewalls and top do the heating of the house. The top damper closed 3/4 shut and the intake
screw out 3-4 turns makes for about a 6 hour burn and another two of usable hot coals for an 8 hr
heating cycle. During the day we just toss on a couple of splits every 1-2 hrs for a steady maintenance
burn. The night shift is 1/2 to a 2/3 full load.





In pic one the outer cement has flaked off over the season as it did last year. In the center pic is brick surrounded by cement.
This was the part pressed into shape when the door was closed against it. #3 shows the Bic NOT getting it's fire sucked
in under the door during a burn.
Concerning pic one is that the rope gasket and inner cement are fully intact. One of three seals failed leaving it safe until
the now annual rebuild. The ashes on the right are just from blowing on the thing. I put in a longer screw for quick fires from
the larger opening and it's fully closed in the image cuz it sucked the lighter fire sideways. lol

Be safe,
CheapMark Never a CO alarm and one smoke detector alert when I opened the door with the flue damper shut. Whoops.

PS welcome aboard, neighbor. I'm north of LaPorte. We come to Valpo fairly often for the dentist
and I like the Harley shoppe there better than MC even tho they have the same owner.
(sold the Harleys years ago but still use them for my Kawayamahondazuki parts.)

 

[shortymac83]

Thanks guys!

Before I got ahold of these comments, I sealed up the whole thing with furnace cement, including the clean out (well, the slots in the top, the seams, and under the door) and the top plates. I also pulled the grate and threw in a layer of firebrick.Threw in an experimental burn this afternoon at about 345, and opened the flue and the front screw all the way. Where I wouldn't be able to get 200 degrees out of the front top plate, I was now registering 650 degrees on my stick-on thermometer, and 700 back by the flue. It may still have a leak or two, but it's much, much better. I did discover a couple leaks when I first fired it, by smoke rolling out from under the top, where the sides meet, but I sealed them up with another layer of spackle. Seems to be doing well now.

When I took these pics, it was about 5:45, so 2 hours of going full bore. I threw in 2 more logs, closed the front screw all the way, then back out 1 turn and closed the flue about 3/4 of the way. This is what it looked like, and the thermometer was on the front of the front plate. Excuse the mess - I hadn't cleaned it up after my cleanout this afternoon.


As this is in a drafty 1600 sq ft pole barn, I'm gonna be running it full-bore most of the time, but I am ecstatic that I got about as much heat out of it in 2 hours as I have been getting in 4-5 hrs of keeping it constantly filled. One of my projects this summer is to seal up the shop more than it is now...that should help with heating as well.

 

[jetsam]

why not use it?

annual rebuild.

Concise version provided for your convenience.

 

[shortymac83]

'Bout rit. Here's 3 hours after I threw in 2 logs. Still at 300* on the top front, and seems like this could go for a while with just these logs. Woohoo!

 

[bholler]

I just have to say be very careful with this stove. Sealing them up is very needed and will make them work much better. But it does not change the very inconsistent cast quality wich can lead to catastrophic failure.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

What Holler said about casting defects (paraphrased).
These things are literally poured from scrap metal. It's not true cast iron except in base metal only.
The impurities leave it wide open for micro splits leading quickly to visible cracks.

Blew the dust off the 'scope. When I was at Hiler Industries (Accurate Castings) as the metallurgical lab rat I got all the old school
testing equipment when they got an actual spectrometer back in the 90's. What I saw in the eyepiece wasn't pretty.
Came out to be an oddball mix of gray and ductile iron. So much sulfur and manganese that the integrity of the casting
is nonexistent. (think Titanic rivets) Brittle at low and high temps.

 

[shortymac83]

I appreciate the info guys. It's never going to see the inside of a house, and I didn't have plans to anyeay. I have it about as far away from combustible as I can feasibly get.

On a related note, is this an issue just with this line of stoves, or is this crap quality consistent for all US stove co products?

 

[bholler]

I am not a fan of any of the us stove products but most are no where near as bad as these

 

[CheapBassTurd]

I was taken by the price and post-colonial styling of the thing not knowing
anything about woodstoving.

Upon further inspection I ONLY like it cuz one can cook on it, and it has no
fans or "extras" so it can be used in an area with lengthy power outages.

The average person (non-iron worker) won't be able to stop a crack from
propagating further, and it's junk to begin with as we both found out. Takes too
much work to be made safe and continued care to keep it safe.

I don't have useful knowledge on the rest of the USS line of products.

 

[bholler]

I ONLY like it cuz one can cook on it, and it has no
fans or "extras" so it can be used in an area with lengthy power outages.

You can cook on most stoves just fine And any stove can be run without power as well.

 

[jetsam]

What Holler said about casting defects (paraphrased).
These things are literally poured from scrap metal. It's not true cast iron except in base metal only.
The impurities leave it wide open for micro splits leading quickly to visible cracks.
View attachment 196068
Blew the dust off the 'scope. When I was at Hiler Industries (Accurate Castings) as the metallurgical lab rat I got all the old school
testing equipment when they got an actual spectrometer back in the 90's. What I saw in the eyepiece wasn't pretty.
Came out to be an oddball mix of gray and ductile iron. So much sulfur and manganese that the integrity of the casting
is nonexistent. (think Titanic rivets) Brittle at low and high temps.

That is so cool.

How can you just look at it under magnification and tell that it has a lot of sulfur and manganese? Which one makes it brittle? (I actually had about 10 questions but I made myself pare it down to two, hehe.)

 

[CheapBassTurd]

Questions: Holler:
With the limited funding at the time we just got the thing on a whim being
determined to get the 500-700 dollar electric heat bills under control. It's
merely the unit we have, but certainly not the best choice. The positives were
mentioned as reasons I never upgraded. I will when/ if it splits.

Jetsam,
The microscope can only tell us a little at 400x. The granular microstructure is easily
destroyed into a conglemeration of blobs and stripes as the elements clung together like rain
droplets during the cooling process as the molten iron went solid. This has to be compared to the wind.
You can't see it, but it's effects can be observed. Heavy elements don't burn out of the molten bath.
Usually Mn and Sulfur mess up the binding of carbon (graphite) clumps so those are my educated guess
based on looking in the 'scope in the past. Lead, tin, copper, and the other heavies mess up the
integrity also. (For transmission gears we needed clean scrap to begin with or add pure iron to dilute
the impurities to a tolerable level or end up with gear teeth breaking off under loads) The look in the
eyepiece is that of manganese contamination. Mn and lead tend to travel together.
(Googling "What are cast iron properties?" gives a tutorial if you are in a researching mood)
Tons of pics and articles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...4&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=
0ahUKEwjc_Je15tvSAhUB1oMKHVqCDl8QsAQIPg&biw=1517&bih=708
That'll make yer head spin fer a few.
I love the Q&A stuff as this is one of the few topics I am educated in so it's kinda cool when being asked what
I think and actually have a useful answer.
The tech article I read about the Titanic stated that the steel plates were extremely durable but the cheesy high sulfur
riveting was sheared off as the ship scrubbed itself along the iceberg. A head on collision with the iceberg has been
surmised as being a "survivable hit" and would have only flooded the first watertight compartment. Instead, the
steel plates were partly pulled off/ peeled out along 4 compartments of the ship creating the result in the history books
and movies. They shoulda literally rammed the thing rather than to try to steer around it at the speed and close distance
when the ice cube was first spotted.

Trying to do this with wood and burning properties last two winters now, and actually be helpful on this site
other than how be an effective scavenger. LOLOL I want to know HOW this stuff called wood burns, not
just knowing that it burns and warms us. Density vs MC vs age since cutting vs species vs airflow, etc etc.

I remember looking under the Tilt a Whirl, the Ferris wheel, etc to see HOW it worked while standing in line.
Always have been this way literally since childhood. Took apart Mom's sewing machine in 5th grade just to
see how all the stuff went together. (That didn't turn out well. She wasn't impressed.)

Any pilots can chime in with how a wing gets "sucked upwards" rather than floating on a cushion of moving air.
I love that stuff too but don't wrap my head around it well. Always more to learn,
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap

 

[bholler]

With the limited funding at the time we just got the thing on a whim being
determined to get the 500-700 dollar electric heat bills under control. It's
merely the unit we have, but certainly not the best choice. The positives were
mentioned as reasons I never upgraded. I will when/ if it splits.

Fair enough.