Roof Flashing advice

[Jason20]

Hi All,
Need your expertise in solving this problem. This was very difficult to find the leak but let me explain.
I have attached a picture of my second storey roof. The gutter here is not all the way extended to the end of the wall. When it rains water pours from the roof into this non gutter end and then on to the metal roof below it and then into the gutter of First Storey. Noticed water leaks from the siding from the end of this gutter(Video attached). What I can do to fix the issue with the non gutter not extended to the wall, is this something as simple that I can perform or it needs to be done by a roofing specialist. If you think I can do it can you please point me to the parts I need to use to get this fixed?
Appreciate your help

 

[EbS-P]

I would add a a diverter, angled to channel all the water into the upper gutter. My roofers used drip edge.

 

[zrock]

THat flashing is all wrong.. Just from this picture i can see 4 possible leaks could probably find allot more if i seen it in person. That little pc of flashing that is angled up at the end of your shingles is directing water back into several areas where i can see it leaking.. If all the flashing ws done properly it would not matter how much water came down it would not leak

 

[Jason20]

THat flashing is all wrong.. Just from this picture i can see 4 possible leaks could probably find allot more if i seen it in person. That little pc of flashing that is angled up at the end of your shingles is directing water back into several areas where i can see it leaking.. If all the flashing ws done properly it would not matter how much water came down it would not leak

Oh that small piece of flashing at the end of the shingles was put by me to do some testing, it will be removed .

 

[Jason20]

I would add a a diverter, angled to channel all the water into the upper gutter. My roofers used drip edge.

ok add a rain diverter that's a good idea . Do you think we insert the rain diverter may be 2 levels up from the bottom of the shingle? There is already a drip edge below the shingles but I am not sure at the end of the shingles if we have one.

 

[gthomas785]

First google "step flashing", then once you understand this concept google "kick out flashing".

The piece of flashing going up the wall at the end of the roof makes me think that was put there instead of step flashing, but I can't see whether or not there is step flashing based on the pic. That is usually how water gets into an end wall with a roof butting into it like this. People either don't know how to do step flashing or they are too lazy / bid the job too low. Finally at the bottom edge of the roof you need a kick out flashing. You could make an extra wide one that reaches the gutter or just let it dump onto the metal roof. IF the metal roof is flashed right then it doesn't matter which gutter the water ends up in.

 

[zrock]

First google "step flashing", then once you understand this concept google "kick out flashing".

The piece of flashing going up the wall at the end of the roof makes me think that was put there instead of step flashing, but I can't see whether or not there is step flashing based on the pic. That is usually how water gets into an end wall with a roof butting into it like this. People either don't know how to do step flashing or they are too lazy / bid the job too low. Finally at the bottom edge of the roof you need a kick out flashing. You could make an extra wide one that reaches the gutter or just let it dump onto the metal roof. IF the metal roof is flashed right then it doesn't matter which gutter the water ends up in.

Agree.. if their was step flashing their and done properly we would be able to see signs.. This all needs to be taken out and redone properly or it will always leak.. I would not be surprised if their is some rot in their.

 

[Jason20]

First google "step flashing", then once you understand this concept google "kick out flashing".

The piece of flashing going up the wall at the end of the roof makes me think that was put there instead of step flashing, but I can't see whether or not there is step flashing based on the pic. That is usually how water gets into an end wall with a roof butting into it like this. People either don't know how to do step flashing or they are too lazy / bid the job too low. Finally at the bottom edge of the roof you need a kick out flashing. You could make an extra wide one that reaches the gutter or just let it dump onto the metal roof. IF the metal roof is flashed right then it doesn't matter which gutter the water ends up in.

Thanks, I called 2 contractors to give me a no obligation estimate and all signs point to the end of the gutter that's fixed to the wall where I have the leak. They say that 90% its this issue and that we have to take out the gutter see what's going on at the end of it and then re-seal it and put it back. I am kind of leaning towards this the reason been if its leaking from the top roof where there is no gutter that meets the wall , then the water leak would have shown in multiple places under the siding and not just below that one area under the gutter as shown in video. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[stoveliker]

Pointing at leaks based on where water appears inside is never a solid approach in my experience. Water can trace complicated paths thru walls and ceilings.

While I can't say the.contractors are wrong, I do think the advice you got above is rock solid. I.e. I'd have much more inspected and corrected (if needed) than only that gutter end.

In fact if a gutter end not being sealed leaks into your home you have other leaks.
A gutter is not a waterproofing system but a water disposal system. Your home should be water proofed (with proper flashing etc) so it won't leak even if a gutter is malfunctioning.

 

[gthomas785]

Yeah missing gutters would not cause water getting up in your house... My house had no gutters at all until I installed some in select locations to move the runoff farther from the foundation. This is 100% a flashing issue and the challenge is to identify all of the flashing errors and correct them.

 

[Jason20]

Pointing at leaks based on where water appears inside is never a solid approach in my experience. Water can trace complicated paths thru walls and ceilings.

While I can't say the.contractors are wrong, I do think the advice you got above is rock solid. I.e. I'd have much more inspected and corrected (if needed) than only that gutter end.

In fact if a gutter end not being sealed leaks into your home you have other leaks.
A gutter is not a waterproofing system but a water disposal system. Your home should be water proofed (with proper flashing etc) so it won't leak even if a gutter is malfunctioning.

I agree water leaks are very hard to trace and hard to point the exact area. It needs lot of analysis. Atleast getting a no obligation quote from few of them makes me think atleast 2 or 3 minds are saying the same thing and we go in that direction. I had one contractor came in and sold lot of crap saying its the metal roof issue and need to cut the gutter end to allow the water flow on the other side of the metal roof etc and sent me a quote of $1800, this is just horrible , they can't even diagnose and find the root case before selling things that I am least bothered. Coming to these forums atleast I get ideas and thanks to everyone for their inputs so far.

 

[Jason20]

Yeah missing gutters would not cause water getting up in your house... My house had no gutters at all until I installed some in select locations to move the runoff farther from the foundation. This is 100% a flashing issue and the challenge is to identify all of the flashing errors and correct them.

yeah I agree the missing gutter shouldn't cause it else the leak would be seen in lot of other areas of the siding, let me get to the root cause of it still working on this to find how it's happening.

 

[hockeypuck]

Before you tear your roof up and do step flashing, seal the end of the gutter and add a 3 foot diverter. What do you have to lose if you end up tearing up the whole section? Bring up the garden hose after ou are done and monitor it. Does it happen in any rain or only wind-driven rain?

 

[Jason20]

Before you tear your roof up and do step flashing, seal the end of the gutter and add a 3 foot diverter. What do you have to lose if you end up tearing up the whole section? Bring up the garden hose after ou are done and monitor it. Does it happen in any rain or only wind-driven rain?

As per 2 contractors the problem is at the gutter where it's currently leaking not touching the roof shingles . One of the contractor told me they will take down the gutter and seal the end where the gutter meets the wall and also have the gutter sit it an angle so that water flows down through it and doesn't accumulate a lot . Hopefully this gutter seal is the root cause and since it leaks from just that corner end of the gutter it's the issue with the seal and it's nothing to do with the upper roof gutter where the gutter end doesn't meet the end of the wall. I will post the results as and when this gets fixed and we test it when it rains again. Thanks for your inputs.

 

[stoveliker]

The problem I have with that reasoning is that even without a gutter (I e. With a completely leaking, as in non-existent gutter), no water should enter your home if the flashing is done right (other than at ground level where water pools if no gutter and downspout directs it away from your foundation).

A gutter should never be the final "leak stop" of your home, as in "the gutter is bad therefore we have a leak". Any and all building instructions I have studied aim at having the home shedding water regardless of whether a gutter is present or not

 

[bigealta]

It's hard to see but the step flashing looks like it ended to short where it ends under the bottom shingle leaving a small gap to the metal roofing. below it. Or the metal roofing was not cut correctly to go under the step flashing.

Sounds like those quotes want to fill that gap and any other we can't see with caulk. Otherwise they would have spelled out replace step flashing as that's a bigger job for a more skilled roofer. A gutter pitched the wrong way will definitely exasperate the problem but just re pitching the gutter won't completely fix the problem if indeed the step flashing is leaving gaps.

 

[zrock]

It's hard to see but the step flashing looks like it ended to short where it ends under the bottom shingle leaving a small gap to the metal roofing. below it. Or the metal roofing was not cut correctly to go under the step flashing.

Sounds like those quotes want to fill that gap and any other we can't see with caulk. Otherwise they would have spelled out replace step flashing as that's a bigger job for a more skilled roofer. A gutter pitched the wrong way will definitely exasperate the problem but just re pitching the gutter won't completely fix the problem if indeed the step flashing is leaving gaps.

bingo i seen that as well..

THe leak has absolutely nothing to do with the eves the 2 contractors that said it did make sure they never come back to your home again. The step flashing or lack of, and all the flashing is wrong and if its not repaired properly you will just to continually have issues.. A good roofing company can fix that step flashing in a day easy without ripping up all the shingles. I used to do and see it all the time.