Rip out existing ZC fireplace, and build a alcove for free standing pellet stove.

[MountainStoveGuy]

Here is the string of emails that this member and I have been exchanging. You need to read them from bottom to top. Im going to start this thread so others can have some imput. She is going to post some photos sometime soon.
Please look over the info i provide and make sure i didnt miss anything.
Thanks!

I looked up the pictures of DonCt. It looks like he replaced his chimney.
Is that black box 2ft higher than his stove a support box that you suggested?
If so I think that would look fine. I'm taking pictures of my wall and starting a thread this after noon.
You are so patient,
Carol

ok, here is a idea for you
you frame in the top of the alcove and install a support box for the pellet pipe, that will seal off the inside of the room from the chase.

If the pipe is going strait up and down it will look like a small pipe stuck in the middle of a bigger pipe?

If so why can't I connect the two pipes higher up as to hide the connection?

if you take a cross section of the pipe, you will see three rings. a inner pipe, a middle pipe and a outer pipe. You cant cover the middle and outer pipe tp trim it out. You can only cover the inner pipe with the reducer for the pellet stove. so you will see the open ends of the other two pipes....

That is the same type of pipe we used to vent straight out of the basement.
That pipe is black. Still wondering if I can paint the silver pipes black?
why is the cooled air pipes the hard part?

if you handy enough, your not fooling your self. It just depends on your skill level.
The hard part is this:
you have air cooled pipe
the pipes are a pipe within a pipe. think of a bulls eye target as you look at the end of the pipe
you cant block off the pipes that cool the chimney
so when you look up from your new stove, you will see open pipes that go all the way up to the outside. The inner pipe will be connected to the stove.

I do have the manual.
The tile removel will be a snap. I have more if I damage them. I know I will have to remove one 12" section of slate above the existing fireplace in order to meet the height requirements. so I should be able to disconnect the chimney then I can frame in the box with 2x4's and apply Wonderboard or backerboard to the frame and tile it in. On the back side of the wal is an outlet so I will drill a hole and pass the cord thru it and that should do it right. Sounds Easy.

I'm I crazy. Or fooling myself?

ok then,
i dont know how to explain it, you must be pretty handy.
on the wood fireplace that is converted to gas, all around the perimeter of the fireplace there is a tab that rests aginst studs. Those tabs are screwed to the studs. You will have to expose those screws and unscrew it. Thats why a saw is much easier. You will have to cut a hole in the wall to get in there and disconnect the chimney, and you will need a pipe wrench to get the pipe out of the fireplace...

This is a major undertaking...
it will requre framing.
drywalling
making chimney connectors
running power for the stove
disconnecting and capping gas lines
tiling.. etc.

If i were you i would look up the manual for your current fireplace online and see how it was installed, then you know how to un install it

This is a gas or wood fireplace.

Couldn't I just paint the exposed pipe black?

Why do I use a saw? Aren't there any screws LOL. I am willing to try anything so if it is a saw I use that just sounds like too much fun and my husband will be very scared! I can do it while he is at work.

thank you
Carol

Carol, 99% of the stoves out there are installed without a outside air kit, so i would not worry abou that at all.
Just to clarify, you have a wood burning fireplace with a gas log, or gas line installed in it. ITs not a gas fireplace right?
Here are some considerations about your install
You will have pipe hanging down, and the fireplace pipe doenst have any finishing peices made for it because its designed to be buried in a wall. So it could be a challenge making something look nice.
You should have a plumber come in to take out the gas line.
What you do is you take a sawzaw and cut out the fireplace and expose the gas line, then you remove the gas line and cap it. You also remove the chimmey from the fireplace, and simply pull the old fireplace out. Dont forget to turn of the gas before you do anything.

So, I guess I should ask how to remove the superior. Who would be the best person to help with getting the gas line pipe out of the way. It is capped.

What about the OAK. I don't really know how I could do that on this installation.

I'm so excited.
Thank you for your help
Carol

yea, you can use that chimney. I think thats a great idea, get that upstairs where it can do you some good!

We have another possible place we could put our stove and it is on the first floor of our cape cod.
We have a Superior gas (LP) and wood fireplace that has NEVER been used. It dosen't even have any logs or doors just the mesh curtain. Our house is just now a year old. Could we remove this fireplace and make it into a alcove and use the chimney for our vent?
We have the space. The wall that the fireplace is on is 7ft wide it is an inside wall that is free standing (open on bothsides) it was supposed to be a two sided fireplace but the builder made a mistake so we got the Superior insert for free. The chimney is strait up (Natural vent i think). It is surrounded by slate. If I could get that fireplace out I could slate the inside of the box and I think it would make more sense than having this beautiful stove in the basement.
So can I use this chimney?

 

[nickemmys]

Here are some pics of my existing fireplace and gas pipe.

 

[nickemmys]

existing fireplace.

 

[nickemmys]

Pics of my Mt Vernon in basement.

 

[wahoowad]

Keep 'em coming MSG. I will be very interested in seeing how this works out!

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i think im spent on ideas... im not sure how kosher it is to make that connection behind a buried wall with no access. Waiting for elk to chime in.

 

[nickemmys]

What was that black box on DonCT pics?
Will your idea work?
What do you think of the Mt. Vernon?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

thats a support box
i dont know, i dont think you can connect two different kinds of pipe behind a wall, my gut tells me no
i think the mt vernon rocks when it works.

 

[nickemmys]

How do we know what i have in my chimney now?
How is my connection different then say a insert?

 

[GVA]

That pipe in pipe what size is that MSG?
Wouldn't it be easier to either rip out the old pipe and drop some pv in it's place or is it possible to run the pv pipe IN the old pipe like a pipe in a pipe in a pipe in a ........

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

we know because you have a ZC fireplace, therefor you have ZC pipe. If you hook up different kinds of pipe, like pellet pipe to ZC pipe, then you cant inclose it. Its a unlisted installation. Your connection is different now because your fireplace is designed to work with it. the pellet pipe isnt. Im going to go out on a limb and say that you canot make that connection between ZC pipe and pellet pipe behind a buried wall. You will need to pull the ZC pipe and drop pellet pipe all the way down. You cant run the pellet pipe all the way up the existing pipe because it will condensate and corrode between the layers in the pellet pipe, at least thats what i have been told. I suppose if you leave the bottem and top open it will breath.. its just a matter if its leagle or not.

 

[GVA]

well, when in doubt rip it out... Since it was a gas exhaust it should be relativly clean.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

GVA, its a wood exaust....

 

[GVA]

GVA, its a wood exaust....

Sorry saw gas line and thought.......... :red:
Reread... and the first post said it's never been used.... and house only a year old so, at least it's still clean :cheese:

 

[nickemmys]

My fireplace installer said he used FTF8 pipe from lennox. I have no idea what that means.

If I rip it out can I install a class A in the chimney box?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

you have class A, just a very specific type of class A. If you were to rip it out, you might as well replace it with pellet pipe.. its about half the cost of Class A. Though, if you had packed pipe instead of air cooled, it would be alot easier because you could make the connection in the room, and not loose any heat from the house.

 

[nickemmys]

I guess I don't quite understand. If I have class A then why would I replace it. Why wouldn't I just use the support box?
If I'm missing something just bare with me.
Thank you,
Carol

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

carol, there are two types of class A. one is air cooled, like you have and some are packed with insulation between the layers.
So in your case, if you connected the pellet pipe to the flue, you would have the rest of the double wall, which is air space between two layers, exposed to the outside and exposed to the inside of the house. If you had insulated pipe, then there would be insulation in the place that your pipe has air, and the insulation would block air from the inside of your house to the outside of your house. You cant connect dissimilar types of pipe behind walls, and pellet pipe and class A are dissimilar types of pipe. So you would have to bring the air cooled pipe like you have below the alcove celing, which would expose your house to the outside elements.. clear as mud?

 

[nickemmys]

The guy that installed my fireplace just called and said he wasn't sure what he used because it took us so long to pick out the fireplace (that is because we were mad that it wasn't going to be a see thru unit). So he installed the vent pipe before he knew what kind of unit we were putting in. But he said I could stick my head in there open the flue and measure across and he would know what he used? Is he crazy or what. I don't mind doing it because it is clean.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

he is crazy, you cant tell from the inside, you would have to get on the roof. The pipe has to match the fireplace anyway... so if he doesnt remember then thats scary. You cant mix match pipe and fireplaces. If its on a ZC fireplace, then im 99.9% sure its aircooled. Packed 8" pipe is super expensive, i think he would remember if he put that in. Its 4 times the cost of air cooled.

 

[nickemmys]

He said when he gets hme he will look up my file.
He said he doesn't want to give me bad info.
I think he was just messing with me to see if I would stick my head up there.
I didn't, if you were wondering.

 

[nickemmys]

Why can't I connect them with the support box like DonCT did?
Sorry if you already explaided it and I missed it.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

because they dont make support boxes for propritory ZC air cooled pipe like you have. The fireplace is the support, so no box is needed.

 

[nickemmys]

We have 25ft ceilings in the great room. The chimney extends 10ft higher.
To rip out our existing vent and replace it with pellet vent what does that intale and how hard is it to do?

 

[GVA]

Maybe I'm crazy but rather than rip out the ZC firebox.... etcetera...... Why not just put the FS pellet stove on an exterior wall and run a new pipe out and up through the wall. And put a prefab hearth pad down..
It would probably be cheaper and most definatly easier.........
If it is an option... Just a thought...