Reno help

[Caveguy]

Hi all, I’m looking for some help with my brick fireplace. It was constructed sometime in the mid 70s as part of an addition to the original house, prior to my ownership a blaze king insert was fit in the opening with metal cladding to conceal the rest of the opening. We would very much like to transition this to an inglenook design but here are my concerns.
1. I believe this is a heatilator design fireplace as there are four air vents ( I think we loose a lot of heat from these) and a metal firebox with warps and rust. I cannot find any identifiable indication to be sure it is a heatilator, where could I look?
2. It seems to me that the lentil is part of the steel structure? If this is the case would I be safe to grind it off from the inside and keep it in place while I grind out the rest of the steel insert?
3. I do not believe that the steel frame is supporting any of the brick structure but before I start cutting it away does anybody have any advice on how I could make sure this is the case?
I am thinking I should cut a hole in the roof of the firebox to use a camera to look around before proceeding . If all looks well since I will be making the opening larger for the inglenook design Should I then remove the row of bricks to my desired hight and install new lentil support row and proceed to remove the unwanted bricks and then remove the heatilator. Or remove the heatilator then do the brick resizing?

All advice is welcomed.

 

[begreen]

What you are attempting takes a great deal of planning for both the stove requirements (in particular the clearances), venting, and for the masonry structure. Only a few stoves will permit a ceiling so close to the stove unless the entire structure (including supporting studs) is non-combustible. What is in there now is a good heater so plan well. It could be that what is existing has to be 100% torn out to reconstruct this inglenook.

 

[bholler]

Hi all, I’m looking for some help with my brick fireplace. It was constructed sometime in the mid 70s as part of an addition to the original house, prior to my ownership a blaze king insert was fit in the opening with metal cladding to conceal the rest of the opening. We would very much like to transition this to an inglenook design but here are my concerns.
1. I believe this is a heatilator design fireplace as there are four air vents ( I think we loose a lot of heat from these) and a metal firebox with warps and rust. I cannot find any identifiable indication to be sure it is a heatilator, where could I look?
2. It seems to me that the lentil is part of the steel structure? If this is the case would I be safe to grind it off from the inside and keep it in place while I grind out the rest of the steel insert?
3. I do not believe that the steel frame is supporting any of the brick structure but before I start cutting it away does anybody have any advice on how I could make sure this is the case?
I am thinking I should cut a hole in the roof of the firebox to use a camera to look around before proceeding . If all looks well since I will be making the opening larger for the inglenook design Should I then remove the row of bricks to my desired hight and install new lentil support row and proceed to remove the unwanted bricks and then remove the heatilator. Or remove the heatilator then do the brick resizing?

All advice is welcomed.

1. It is a heatform metal firebox of some sort. The brand really doesn't matter..

2. The lintel you can see is absolutely supporting the brick face. There may be another burried above the metal box as well.

3. Metal fireboxes are almost never structural at all. But there is no real way to know untill you get it out. But opening it up the way you want is going to take some serious structural modifications.

 

[Caveguy]

I am also positive that the lintel is supporting the brick but it almost looks like it is part of the heat form ? Have you seen this before? I was not aware ther may be a second lintel in there thanks for the heads up.

There are no combustibles in its construction masonry. Hence why I am inclined to install a new supporting lintel at my desired hight before removing the heat form as I am planning on removing the entirety of the unit and am hoping to have a strictly brick space when finished. I would then put the wood stove insert back into the space with the metal flue out thru the chimney just more effectively fit. The stove would then be centred in the space with good clearance on both sides and ceiling with no combustible material anywhere close.
I was hoping to be able to identify the unit to be able some specs on it so I can have a better idea of what I’m going to be removing and have a good plan on how. But I guess going blind is fun too.
I realize that this is no small task and will be heavy and dirty, and a lot for f planning is going into this I prefer to do good work rather than hack rush work. I also have a certified mason working with me on this but he has no experience removing a heat form and suggested I reach out to the community for additional guidance. We are quite rural so getting more ideas and help is quite limited.
Thanks guys

 

[bholler]

I take out a few a year and build masonry boxes in their place. I usually cut them into peices and remove them that way. There is going to be allot of masonry structure above that heatform and behind the face that will need to be removed and supported without it collapsing on you. It will not be an easy task

 

[Caveguy]

Wish you were up in North bc. Thanks for the help

 

[mcdougy]

Does the "cavity" behind the insert gain enough height and width to accommodate your plan? Or do you figure you have to reconstruct the "throat" of cavity the creates the chimney portion? This "throat" (angled brick to make the 10x10 chimney will be the difficult part to reconstruct in my opinion. Sometimes the throat can be several layers of brick if they are laid on an angle.
Maybe someone here knows if there is generally a lintel at the top of the "throat" where the chimney chase starts past the angled section. If there is no lintel typically, then this is where it could get interesting while creating your "new sized" opening.

 

[bholler]

There generally is no lintel at the top. It is pretty common to have a lintel on the facing and one behind it to support the front of the smoke chamber. But many times heatforms don't have that second lintel because they have a metal smoke chamber as well.

 

[Caveguy]

The cavity is large enough to achieve my desired plan wanting opening 4 wide 4 high 20” deep. Structure is currently 6.5’ wide 10’ high befor the chimney tapers to the roof line and 2.5 in depth. Current opening is 37” wide 26” high and heat form is 18” deep with a steel smoke box and I’m not sure exactly what is around that? The brick and mortar is not in great shape especially above the roofline. My thought here is once finished building the new opening and design is to do a cast in a place flue liner to shore up the strength of the fireplace and add some longevity to the place. And do a new face of brick on the fireplace and chimney adding more depth to the inglenook. I may finish the chimney by cladding in hardi as well tying it into the exterior look, minds not made up yet. I know the cast in place is going to be costly however probably worth it in the long run.
Any idea what I may find around the steel smoke box?

 

[bholler]

The cavity is large enough to achieve my desired plan wanting opening 4 wide 4 high 20” deep. Structure is currently 6.5’ wide 10’ high befor the chimney tapers to the roof line and 2.5 in depth. Current opening is 37” wide 26” high and heat form is 18” deep with a steel smoke box and I’m not sure exactly what is around that? The brick and mortar is not in great shape especially above the roofline. My thought here is once finished building the new opening and design is to do a cast in a place flue liner to shore up the strength of the fireplace and add some longevity to the place. And do a new face of brick on the fireplace and chimney adding more depth to the inglenook. I may finish the chimney by cladding in hardi as well tying it into the exterior look, minds not made up yet. I know the cast in place is going to be costly however probably worth it in the long run.
Any idea what I may find around the steel smoke box?

There is very likely an internal block structure inside that brick face. Is there a flue coming up from the basement?

You don't want a pour in place liner. If the chimney is in bad shape fix it or rebuild it. Lining it won't fix the structure at all

 

[Caveguy]

I’m getting some consultation with the liner. Just to be sure. No basement built on concrete slab.