Refurbished Englander 10-CPM

[Jan Markey]

I'm a big fan of Englander Stoves. Low cost, well designed and A1 excellent support. I bought an Englander 55-SHP22 pellet stove maybe a dozen years ago. A fine stove. Heated well and held up well. I used it 24/7 every winter. I had to replace the one auger and the room air blower. After moving into a slightly larger new home and leaving the old stove behind I decided to look for a new stove. I finally settled on a refurbished TimberRidge Multi Fuel Model:49-TRCPM advertised on ebay from AM FM Stoves. Stove built 05/2011. At least that is what I expected to get. Instead I was sent a 10-cpm built 08/2009. If I buy something used or refurbished I want it to be exactly as advertised. OK the 10-cpm is supposed to be the same as the 49-TRCPM. Why didn't the ad just say 10-cpm so I didn't have to worry that I was shipped the wrong stove? The build date advertised was off by almost 2 years. They could have made improvements over those 2 years. OK let's leave that behind and get to the appearance. The grass decorative insert on the one side looks great but the other side looks like the black steel wasn't touched up (it's rusted) and the silver grass looks like rust spots (ugly). Also on that side is a 3 inch(broken image removed) patch of rust near the back corner and some scratches where staple was used to attach the cardboard box to the pallet but missed and hit the stove. I sent Andy at AM FM Stoves an email about it and he responded that they could send out replacement parts and a can of high heat black paint used for touch up. He said he will also forward my email to Mike, customer service manager at factory. That was 14 days ago. I haven't heard a word from them and no touch up paint. Now to performance. I love the auto ignite which my old stove didn't have. I ran the stove and it just didn't seem to burn as hot as my old pellet stove did. I called Englander support and spoke to Eric. He had me go through a series of things on the control board and decided to send me a new board. I put the new board in and I can't tell a difference. I decided to run some tests to determine the high and low btu range. I started the stove and left it run through the 20 min. start up. I removed the pellets from the hopper until they just covered the auger so I would have a good starting point. I set the heat range to #1 and ran it for 1 hour. The room air blower kicked off after 12 minutes and never came back on for the rest of the hour. The stove used 1 pound of pellets on #1 for that hour= approx 8500 btu. Next I did the same test on the #9 setting and burned 3 pounds 6 ounces in an hour for an approx btu of 28700. The metal sticker on the hopper door says input rating for pellets is 4.5 lb an hour. I'm not getting close to that and I think the stove should put out more then 28700 btu. Something isn't right with this stove. The room air blower stays off on #1 setting and on #9 it should put out more heat. I'll keep updating. Jan

 

[smoke show]

Jan, I hope your issues get resolved. Maybe cut Mike a lil slack cause its the off season. I'm sure he'll help.
Some others here have the 10cpm, maybe they'll chime in the meantime.
Good luck and welcome aboard.

 

[Jan Markey]

Yes I'm glad it is the off season. I would guess tech support gets pretty hectic during the heating months. Englander is a good company and I expect they will help.

 

[DexterDay]

Have you adjusted the LBA and/or LFF?

The 10-CPM and 49-TRCPM are the same exact stove. Just different name for different stores. I recently bought a CPM from AMFM also. It was a Factory 2nd. Meaning it was brand new and had a small blemish on the top lid. All in all, I couldn't tell. But it was made on 4-2-12 and I took delivery on 4-12-12. Was the same price as the refurb models but new.

I have noticed it doesnt heat quite as well as my Quad. Its heat exchange system is, well, not really a heat exchanger... Its like a convective woodstove. A box within a box and air blows around it..

I hope you get it all straightened out... Good luck.

 

[imacman]

Jan, I was one of the very first on the forum to buy a 10-cpm from AMFM and have nothing but good things to say about Andy, and about Englander for that matter, but if the stove is not what was listed in the ad, manufacturer date-wise, then I'd be asking for a swap of stoves, at their cost......IMO.

As mentioned above, this is the "off season" for Mike H., but he can be reached at his "summer" email: [email protected]

Just curious....what do you have the lower buttons set at? The factory setting of 1-4-1 is OK for really "hot" burning pellets, but I found some changes that helped with the average pellet.

BTW, what pellets did you use for your heat "test"?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

just stumbled across this a few minutes ago.

i went back and looked for the e mail from andy couldnt find it but its entirely possible he sent it to my "work" e mail at my office by mistake. i do not spend any time in my office in the summer and techs which do man the office in the summer usually check my email during that time. usually andy will e mail me at home at the addy i post in my sig line he has occasionally sent to my work though by mistake, probably the case.

anyway, i noticed you did speak with eric, did he get you squared away? as far as the touch up and such? i see he sent new control boards for the unit but did he get you the touchup for the cosmetic issue? if not let me know and i'll see that gets done.


as far as output, the parameters can be adjusted to push more fuel, most folks dont seem to run at that high a range commonly though and are more concerned with fuel efficiency, the parameters in the board at default are set up to get the cleanest burn while providing heat. the way to squeeze more heat out of the unit would be to walk back the LBA and or raise the LFF. start with the LBA, drop it by one digit (default is 4) at a time letting the unit run for several minutes between each adjustment. the reason for allowing it to run is to give it a chance to "settle in" and to be able to tell if it is going to hold the "door ajar" vacuum switch closed so the auger will continue to cycle( this switch is there to stop feed should the door inadvertantly be open or the glass gets broken or some other wierd happenstance, it relies on negative pressure in the burn chamber from the pull of the exhaust blower so reducing this speed reduces this pressure) anyway gradually take it down until you see the feed begin to get irratic (missed cycles several in a row, fire dies back then fuel starts again, once this has been met , increase by 1 digit and you should be set there. move to the LFF go up same way until you reach the output you are looking for without overfeeding

 

[Jan Markey]

Thank you for the replies. I didn't mess with the bottom numbers.They are set at factory setting 1-4-1. The pellets I bought at Tractor Supply. Not much of a name on the bag. It says Premium Wood Pellet, Made in Maine, MWP

Jan

 

[Jan Markey]

Thank you for your reply Mike. No I didn't get squared away with the paint and bad panel. I was waiting for Andy to get back to me so I didn't say anything to Eric about it. I was mostly interested in the performance while talking to Eric. My fault. Eric has been great and I hope I don't get anyone into trouble. Thank you for your help!!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Thank you for your reply Mike. No I didn't get squared away with the paint and bad panel. I was waiting for Andy to get back to me so I didn't say anything to Eric about it. I was mostly interested in the performance while talking to Eric. My fault. Eric has been great and I hope I don't get anyone into trouble. Thank you for your help!!

naaaah, nobodys in any trouble, if anything i probably should have looked it over before it got crated up so if anyone is at fault its me. see, i do most all of andy's refurbs myself. i did actually burn that stove and it did burn as i expected it would have but im used to seeing these things burn so if it was not what it should have been it wouldnt have been certified for resale(heck i burn in a good year about 25 tons of pellet fuel in testing out scheduled tests such as "Q/A"s and in burning refurbs as well as what i call "playin with fire" just flat doing unusual things to see what happens). i suspect i will make a mention to the guys who do the cleanout/repaint etc. after i certify the stoves for resale but im not a screamer, im a teacher when it comes to this kind of thing. actually , now that i think about it im not gonna be in the loop tomorrow got a photo shoot of all things (no im not the subject) we have a photographer coming to shoot pictures for our posters and ads for new products (the 25-IP which is our newest pellet unit, and the new pellet grill ) never mind, i'll get it done by COB tomorrow have the stuff to ya by beginning of next week at earliest (paint can only be shipped ground as its pressurized)

EDIT: oh, by the way the unit has NOT had any changes to it since that particular unit was produced. especially since the circuit boards are brand new replacements, they would have come from stock which otherwise might have gone on a stove tomorrow.

 

[subsailor]

The pellets I bought at Tractor Supply. Not much of a name on the bag. It says Premium Wood Pellet, Made in Maine, MWP

Jan

Maine Woods Pellets. They bag their pellets for TSC with the Premium Wood Pellet name. It has a small version of their logo and says MWP. Most would call them a shoulder pellet.

 

[imacman]

Jan, as mentioned above, those pellets are average, at best. Better pellets will put out more heat. But if you have a lot of them, and want some suggestions for what to set the bottom 3 buttons for more heat, let me know by PM. I have fooled around with the settings a LOT, and seem to have hit on a couple good combinations for this stove.

 

[Jan Markey]

I was just out playing with the stove. I took the LBA all the way down to 1. It didn't skip a beat. I have a small Christmas bulb hooked to the auger so I could see it flash. I also took the LFF up to 4 and ran it for awhile on heat range #1. The room air blower ran the whole time. I then ran it on heat range #9 and it also ran good. I didn't do a BTU test so I don't know if raising the LFF made a difference in that regard.

 

[imacman]

I was just out playing with the stove. I took the LBA all the way down to 1. It didn't skip a beat. I have a small Christmas bulb hooked to the auger so I could see it flash. I also took the LFF up to 4 and ran it for awhile on heat range #1. The room air blower ran the whole time. I then ran it on heat range #9 and it also ran good. I didn't do a BTU test so I don't know if raising the LFF made a difference in that regard.

In my "testing". I've found that keeping the LBA one number higher than the LFF seems to give good results.

For example, if I raise the LFF to 3, I have good heat output with the LBA at 4 or 5, etc. The settings I use the most with average "shoulder" pellets are 3-4-1, or 4-5-1. Better pellets work well with 2-3-1, or 2-4-1.

 

[Wood Nugget]

The rust looks like it might be from metal shavings from a grinder. Maybe they were grinding on a refurb unit near it and it got some metal shavings on it. It might not of even started to rust till after it was crated and shipped, which would be why it wasn't caught at englander.

 

[Doug Doty]

I just looked at a Englander 10 cpm at a local dealer and like the looks, maybe study a little harder when they are not about to close. How long do you guys think these stoves will run with the stirrer to help clear ash, mine non stir stove needs 24 to 48 hours door open attention and ash removal with the current pellets.

 

[woodmakesheat]

I just looked at a Englander 10 cpm at a local dealer and like the looks, maybe study a little harder when they are not about to close. How long do you guys think these stoves will run with the stirrer to help clear ash, mine non stir stove needs 24 to 48 hours door open attention and ash removal with the current pellets.

In your other thread here -> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...scrape-and-poke-holes-in-the-fire-pot.135648/

I mentioned weekly on opening the door is typical, have gone 2 weeks once (my 1st year burning pellets.) Someone allegedly ran one of these stoves for 57 days without opening it.