Recessed wood stove clearances

[48rob]

I keep seeing examples of wood stoves recessed with non combustible walls, but with wood mantles and wood beam supports. I'm doing the math based on average wood stove required clearances, and don't see how they can do this without being too close.
I want to do something similar, but can't make it work, numbers wise, without having the beams too close according to the clearance requirements..

Thoughts?

Rob

Here are a few examples:

 

[bholler]

I keep seeing examples of wood stoves recessed with non combustible walls, but with wood mantles and wood beam supports. I'm doing the math based on average wood stove required clearances, and don't see how they can do this without being too close.
I want to do something similar, but can't make it work, numbers wise, without having the beams too close according to the clearance requirements..

Thoughts?

Rob



Here are a few examples;
View attachment 225108

View attachment 225109

View attachment 225110

Just because you see pics of it even in marketing material does not mean it is right.

 

[edyit]

http://magrahearth.com/

look into that, non combustible so clearances for it wont be an issue

 

[Mike M.]

I have the exact same question. Stove manuals always list side and back space requirements but hardly never ceiling or height to combustible material space required. Interested in why.

Sent from my SM-G900R6 using Tapatalk

 

[worktolearn13]

call local fire dpt and ask if they have basic clearences they would like to see. For mine the double wall made things a lot easier. i would say that if the mantle was 16" from the actual stove you could have a good chance to pass clearences. venting is around 8' if its double wall i think. that's with my stove in mind though, alderlea t-4 from pacific energy

 

[bholler]

call local fire dpt and ask if they have basic clearences they would like to see. For mine the double wall made things a lot easier. i would say that if the mantle was 16" from the actual stove you could have a good chance to pass clearences. venting is around 8' if its double wall i think. that's with my stove in mind though, alderlea t-4 from pacific energy

The fire dept should just read the specs off the stove or out of the stove manual. That is where the clearances are. They will clearly spell everything out for you. The fire dept cant change those required clearances.

 

[worktolearn13]

The fire dept should just read the specs off the stove or out of the stove manual. That is where the clearances are. They will clearly spell everything out for you. The fire dept cant change those required clearances.

Your right they did use the manual, but there was some other guidelines they wanted to see done, like things to avoid that they have seen cause fires or signs of problems

 

[bholler]

Your right they did use the manual, but there was some other guidelines they wanted to see done, like things to avoid that they have seen cause fires or signs of problems

Honestly while i am incredibly gratefull to our firefighters who volunteer their time. Most are not trained or qualified to give advice or to inspect stove installs. In some areas they may be but in much of the country they are not.

 

[worktolearn13]

fair enough.

 

[48rob]

Thank you.

The fake beams are nice...but quite pricey.

I have an Englander 17 VL-50 that I've been running for several years now in my shop. I have the book/specs, and understand the basic clearances (8" to the rear, 11" to the side, 6" to the corner) However, It doesn't list a clearance to the front, or from the top to a mantle or wall.

If I am interpreting them incorrectly, and can get by with 6" from the front corner of the stove to the corner of the wood beam (at a 45 degree angle) then it would work...though common sense says it just seems too close, especially being in an alcove where the heat build up should be greater. I will be venting the alcove at the top and on one side, but heat trapped is heat trapped.

Rob

 

[begreen]

Are all of the pictures from Europe or the UK? They may have different rulings for those stoves. What's being proposed is not impossible, but it would need a stove that had a low top clearance to start and an entirely non-combustible enclosure like a masonry fireplace, all masonry construction, etc.. Older stone homes are more common in Europe.

 

[bholler]

Thank you.

The fake beams are nice...but quite pricey.

I have an Englander 17 VL-50 that I've been running for several years now in my shop. I have the book/specs, and understand the basic clearances (8" to the rear, 11" to the side, 6" to the corner) However, It doesn't list a clearance to the front, or from the top to a mantle or wall.

If I am interpreting them incorrectly, and can get by with 6" from the front corner of the stove to the corner of the wood beam (at a 45 degree angle) then it would work...though common sense says it just seems too close, especially being in an alcove where the heat build up should be greater. I will be venting the alcove at the top and on one side, but heat trapped is heat trapped.

Rob

No you cant be 6" diagonal from the front corner that is from the back corner. The front corner would be that 11" side clearance. The manual doesnt list any info for an alcove install so you will have to call englander to find out if they tested it. I would guess they didnt or it would be in the manual. If that is the case you would basically have to build a fireplace to put it in.

 

[48rob]

Thank you.

I do not know the origin of the photos...I just found them online.
The alcove would be of brick construction, over a concrete slab/floor. 1"-2" air space between brick and outer wall.
Similar to the photos. nothing combustible anywhere near the stove...except for the decorative beams and mantle.
Sounds like calling Englander is the proper route.

Rob

 

[bholler]

Thank you.

I do not know the origin of the photos...I just found them online.
The alcove would be of brick construction, over a concrete slab/floor. 1"-2" air space between brick and outer wall.
Similar to the photos. nothing combustible anywhere near the stove...except for the decorative beams and mantle.
Sounds like calling Englander is the proper route.

Rob

But a single layer of brick with airspace and then combustibles is not classified as noncombustible it is just a heat sheild which if allowed (with this stove it is not) would give you 2/3 reduction in clearance. In your case with that stove it wont gain you any reduction. And those beams will be a problem. You will need to call englander.

 

[48rob]

"But a single layer of brick with airspace and then combustibles is not classified as noncombustible it is just a heat sheild which if allowed (with this stove it is not) would give you 2/3 reduction in clearance. In your case with that stove it wont gain you any reduction."

Thank you. Can you elaborate?

A layer of brick with an air space is not non-combustible?

Rob

 

[bholler]

"But a single layer of brick with airspace and then combustibles is not classified as noncombustible it is just a heat sheild which if allowed (with this stove it is not) would give you 2/3 reduction in clearance. In your case with that stove it wont gain you any reduction."

Thank you. Can you elaborate?

A layer of brick with an air space is not non-combustible?

Rob

Yes but the wall behind it is. To be classified as a noncombustible structure it would have to be either 12" solid masonry or 8" with the inner 4 being firebrick or fireclay.

 

[maple1]

"But a single layer of brick with airspace and then combustibles is not classified as noncombustible it is just a heat sheild which if allowed (with this stove it is not) would give you 2/3 reduction in clearance. In your case with that stove it wont gain you any reduction."

Thank you. Can you elaborate?

A layer of brick with an air space is not non-combustible?

Rob

You still have to go by the distance to the combustible, even if there is a non-combustible between it and the stove. Except if it is of proper heat shield construction - i.e., proper air space in between of proper sizing with proper stand offs, with space at the bottom for air to enter & at the top for air to leave. That way air convection washes the heat away - crudely speaking. If the heat shield thing applies, you would then go by clearances specd to a heat shield - not a non-combustible.

 

[48rob]

Thank you.

I've written Englander, waiting for a reply.

Rob

 

[HomeinPA]

I've called Regency and a couple other companies to challenge them about these types of pictures. I asked why they use the pics when it's clear that they don't match the clearances required in the back of the book yet they have no problem advertising it to appear as a correct install. They had no reply of substance. We're stuck out here trying to explain to people that just because it's in the brochure it doesn't mean it's correct and that just don't cut it for a lot of people.


All that to say, don't be afraid to tell Englander (or anyone) that such photos are deceiving and they need to be fixed. Someone could get hurt. That might get their attention.

 

[48rob]

They wrote back and said their stoves aren't designed for alcoves and thus wouldn't pass code.

So, I'm off to design something else...

Rob

 

[bholler]

They wrote back and said their stoves aren't designed for alcoves and thus wouldn't pass code.

So, I'm off to design something else...

Rob

That is kind of what i expected

 

[begreen]

Can't say for sure but the pictures look like English or Irish stoves, not in the US. Often stove beauty shots are done in the studio where a mock up home wall is made for the photos. Often the stove is not even burning. The flames are composited in later.

 

[48rob]

Thanks,

I got "burned" so to speak... I love that look, have beams in the shed, and am building a new shop... I get ahead of myself now and then trying to design things based on un-researched ideas. Good thing this board is here to help sort it all out

I have learned much here, and appreciate the quick, informed responses!

Rob