Reality Check

[BirthofSerpents]

I've been burning presto logs for the last three years because they burn great. In fact, I burn four logs and have to keep an eye on temp gauges to make sure they don't overfire, which is fine, I prefer my stove top temps on the hot side. Price is getting prohibitively expensive here though, so this year I bought over two cords of fir instead.

The fir meters out to be mostly between 13% - 17%, with the occasional stick of 18%. Playing firewood Tetris, if I fill the firebox as much as possible I still get disappointing burns. It's technically in the preferred burn zones for the majority of the fire, but the air intake is wide open the whole time, flu and stove top temps never really get into the higher levels and then it stalls and sort of settles in the low end of the safe burn zone. Reloads burn fine. This is just first fire.

I've ruled out technical issues, it still burns fine with presto logs. I've ruled out wood dryness by metering each stick with sample fresh splits. What am I doing wrong? Is it just that fir is such a softer wood?

TLDR: Recently started burning all fir. Fire is cooler than I'd like and stalls at a certain temp making for an annoyingly underpowered fire. Ruled out mechanical function of stove and quality of wood. What am I doing wrong?

 

[begreen]

Fir in that range should burn hot and easy. How is the wood moisture being tested?

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Fir is that range should burn hot and easy. How is the wood moisture being tested?

Moisture meter, amazon cheapie called Tavool. I'm splitting about half the pieces and metering on the split. I'm not burning anything 19% or above. I dry out the wood inside for minimum three usually 5 - 10 days before burning.

 

[bigealta]

Hmmm..... Something is not adding up?
That fir should be ripping.

 

[30WCF]

Sounds like reloads on hot coals burn fine, but your slow starting. Try a smaller load with a top down fire to get a coal base going. One layer of logs on the bottom, crossed with a layer of smaller splits, crossed with some kindling, maybe another layer of kindling, and light the top two layers.
Or do what you’re doing, just smaller splits not packed as tight on that first fire.

 

[bigealta]

Oh i didn't see reloads burn fine. Yeah should just need more air gaps (spacers) between pieces. Try top down for sure.

You can Try a set up like this for max air space and good burn.

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[begreen]

Is the stove being loaded N/S or E/W? Dry fir loaded N/S should take off pretty quickly with a few splitter scraps for kindling.
Note how this fire is being started in the initial posting picture. This is with a straight-up 20ft flue.

Thread 'Starting a fire and running an EPA stove'

Jan 17, 2020

Questions about starting a fire and avoiding a runaway stove come up so frequently I decided to document starting our stove. This is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 with about a 3 cu ft firebox. The stove is connected to a straight-up, 20' interior flue. The outside ambient temperature is 34ºF. The blower was off all the time for these shots. The firewood is douglas fir at about 17% moisture content. This is a N/S loading. An E/W loading start will follow.

NOTE: as testing will show, the older Condar flue thermometer is reading low. It needs recalibration.

There are 3 instruments shown.

1. ...

• begreen
• Replies: 79
• Forum: The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces

• 

This may be a draft situation that's remedied by a hotter flue which is present in a reload.
Describe the flue system in detail. Is it an interior or exterior flue? Basement stove? Liner size and height? Any elbows or tees?

Is the boost air manifold in correctly? This is the L shaped angle plate that hangs at the bottom front of the firebox. It can get put in upside down which will block the boost air flow. The blank part should be on top with the other face with the holes, pointing toward the back of the firebox.

This is the part out of the stove.


This is what it looks like when installed in the T6. The hole pattern varies with the model and year of the stove.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Is the stove being loaded N/S or E/W? Dry fir loaded N/S should take off pretty quickly with a few splitter scraps for kindling.
Note how this fire is being started in the initial posting picture. This is with a straight-up 20ft flue.

Thread 'Starting a fire and running an EPA stove'

Jan 17, 2020

Questions about starting a fire and avoiding a runaway stove come up so frequently I decided to document starting our stove. This is a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 with about a 3 cu ft firebox. The stove is connected to a straight-up, 20' interior flue. The outside ambient temperature is 34ºF. The blower was off all the time for these shots. The firewood is douglas fir at about 17% moisture content. This is a N/S loading. An E/W loading start will follow.

NOTE: as testing will show, the older Condar flue thermometer is reading low. It needs recalibration.

There are 3 instruments shown.

1. ...

• begreen
• Replies: 79
• Forum: The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces

• 

This may be a draft situation that's remedied by a hotter flue which is present in a reload.
Describe the flue system in detail. Is it an interior or exterior flue? Basement stove? Liner size and height? Any elbows or tees?

Is the boost air manifold in correctly? This is the L shaped angle plate that hangs at the bottom front of the firebox. It can get put in upside down which will block the boost air flow. The blank part should be on top with the other face with the holes, pointing toward the back of the firebox.

This is the part out of the stove.
View attachment 333918

This is what it looks like when installed in the T6. The hole pattern varies with the model and year of the stove.
View attachment 333919

Load is north south. I have a middling fire right now but will check orientation as soon as it's cool enough. There is an elbow. Chimney is only 14 - 15', which I've always worried about. I'll post pics as soon as possible.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Oh i didn't see reloads burn fine. Yeah should just need more air gaps (spacers) between pieces. Try top down for sure.

You can Try a set up like this for max air space and good burn.

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I always burn top down except for presto logs.

 

[begreen]

Load is north south. I have a middling fire right now but will check orientation as soon as it's cool enough. There is an elbow. Chimney is only 14 - 15', which I've always worried about. I'll post pics as soon as possible.

Describe the flue system from stove top to chimney cap in detail.

 

[moresnow]

Moisture meter, amazon cheapie called Tavool. I'm splitting about half the pieces and metering on the split. I'm not burning anything 19% or above. I dry out the wood inside for minimum three usually 5 - 10 days before burning.

Can you post a picture of your full load prior to lighting next round?

 

[kennyp2339]

I dry out the wood inside for minimum three usually 5 - 10 days before burning.

So when your testing the fir your taking a room temp piece and re-splitting and then testing right? If your just testing the outside of a previous split piece your going to get an inaccurate reading.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

So when your testing the fir your taking a room temp piece and re-splitting and then testing right? If your just testing the outside of a previous split piece your going to get an inaccurate reading.

I test the inside of a freshly cut split.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Double walled chimney begins above the baffle. Rises approximately 4'5" with a 45 degree bend before entering ceiling at just below 7'. Rises approximately 14 - 18" through ceiling before emerging through roof with approximately more 5'. Total draft of probably 13+ 14'. Pics below:



air intake properly installed



Inside of firebox.



I'm going to try a looser log cabin style fire later today but I'll post pics of how I've typically been stacking the wood in there first.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Oh i didn't see reloads burn fine. Yeah should just need more air gaps (spacers) between pieces. Try top down for sure.

You can Try a set up like this for max air space and good burn.

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This seems to have helped a lot. I made a log cabin style fire and it took right off. The stack in the pic below is what I had been doing before (except tighter and all the way to the top).

 

[Motor7]

If you use Super Cedars, then you probably can get away with loading that way. Other than that, the log cabin method always rocks.

My flue is over 26' and 8". If the flue is cold, I log cabin, then throw a full crumpled up newspaper page on top. The flash burning paper always gives the draft an instant boost.

 

[stoveliker]

I assume those spots on the cut ends are sap and not wetness?
Loads packed like that can take off easily if they are sufficiently dry. (Even oak, seemingly notorious for poorly catching on fire, takes off with cold starts, or even before I close the door on hot reloads.) I have good draft though.
This suggests to me that your draft is a bit poor. I think that stove should work with 13-14 ft, but maybe your geography (being in a valley I think?) hinders it a bit.
It might be that the presto logs, being very dry, produce enough heat soon enough to increase draft sufficiently to get it going, but the fir is a tad bit slower, and that pushes you over the edge here.

I suggest that trying out with a cheap temporary flue extension of 2 ft (e.g. by sticking in some single wall stove pipe) is worth a try. If that works, you can extend the flue in a proper way.

What is not clear yet (unless I missed it), is whether this stalling is happening at a cold start or also on a hot reload?

 

[begreen]

All looks in order with the stove and flue. The T5 is an easy breather, the 15' flue should be adequate. Kudos for going straight up.

his seems to have helped a lot. I made a log cabin style fire and it took right off. The stack in the pic below is what I had been doing before (except tighter and all the way to the top).

If some kindling is criss-crossed with newspaper on top of a 3/4 load like this, it should start ok. A Lincoln log style build will start even faster because of the increase air gaps.

For easy starts, get some SuperCedars and break them into 1/8 to 1/4 chunks of the puck. If a chunk was placed here and lit, this batch should start easily.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

I assume those spots on the cut ends are sap and not wetness?

No, it's just a bit of tiny surface wetness becasue I took it outside to split it to meter the split before loading. The wood is seasoned as has been in the house for about 8 days.

What is not clear yet (unless I missed it), is whether this stalling is happening at a cold start or also on a hot reload?

No, this is just the first fire. Reloads are fine.

 

[BirthofSerpents]

Thank you everyone for helping me troubleshoot. Appreciated.