RE: Which option to choose with splitter repair?

[firefighterjake]

So my faithful MTD woodsplitter is having issues . . . well more like a leaky bladder.

In addition to some engine issues I had a weeping gasket. Today the shop called and has given me some choices . . . a) replace the whole ram system from MTD (cost unknown) or b) they can send the cylinder out to a local hydraulic shop to be re-chromed as it is pitted and replace the seals. Thoughts?

 

[ABMax24]

We used to have a few excellent hydraulic shops up here, given that I'd send it out for re-chrome and re-seal up here if the cost was less than replacing.

 

[johneh]

Before I decided which option I would want
to know the costs of each. That way I could
make an informed decision.

 

[Bad LP]

It depends.

I had to have a leaky metric cylinder rebuilt for a machine and nearly crapped myself at the cost.
A basic wood spliter cylinder should be rather cheap. When repaired store the machine with the cylinder retracted and the rod woun't get pitted.

 

[blades]

generally with rechroming + labour to do the seals -might as well by new. Now you do not need to buy MTD's cylinder plenty other on market same size that will work just fine. just match up length, ram diameter and mounting system, likely end up with a better cylinder that what you started with. Other than poor mfg. you must have water mixed with your hydro fluid to get a pitted ram. Never store unit with ram extended.

 

[duramaxman05]

Check with surplus center or northern tool or bailey hydraulics(I think) for a new cylinder. Replacing seals is easy and reasonable, but rechroming the rod will probably be pricy.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Was the ram left extended for long periods of storage?
If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.

 

[thetooth]

I just replaced the seals on my Tractor Supply huskee splitter ( 10 years old ) . Speeco the manufacturer sent me a pdf of the cylinder disassembly . Seals were $35 shipped . I did have a few nicks that I sanded out with 800/1500 wet sand paper . So far so good no leaks

 

[firefighterjake]

It depends.

I had to have a leaky metric cylinder rebuilt for a machine and nearly crapped myself at the cost.
A basic wood spliter cylinder should be rather cheap. When repaired store the machine with the cylinder retracted and the rod woun't get pitted.

Always have stored it with the rod retracted . . . and inside a shed . . . from Day 1. I don't believe it's ever spent a night outside.

 

[firefighterjake]

Before I decided which option I would want
to know the costs of each. That way I could
make an informed decision.

Yes . . . definitely waiting for the final price breakdown . . . but just trying to gauge which option seems better for the long run.

 

[firefighterjake]

generally with rechroming + labour to do the seals -might as well by new. Now you do not need to buy MTD's cylinder plenty other on market same size that will work just fine. just match up length, ram diameter and mounting system, likely end up with a better cylinder that what you started with. Other than poor mfg. you must have water mixed with your hydro fluid to get a pitted ram. Never store unit with ram extended.

Could water work its way into the system if I was splitting in the rain? While I've always stored it inside with the ram retracted I have split some wood while it was drizzling before.

 

[firefighterjake]

Was the ram left extended for long periods of storage?
If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.

Pretty sure it must have been minor pitting due to the way I stored it and I honestly never noticed any pitting. The shop seemed to think the pitting might have caused the seal failure . . . now I'm kinda wondering if it might have been the other way around . . . the seal failure leading to the pitting.

 

[Ashful]

Pretty sure it must have been minor pitting due to the way I stored it and I honestly never noticed any pitting. The shop seemed to think the pitting might have caused the seal failure . . . now I'm kinda wondering if it might have been the other way around . . . the seal failure leading to the pitting.

Seal failure should not lead to pitting, the shop likely has the correct diagnosis. The only question is whether the pitting is so bad that it can’t be cleaned up sufficiently to work awhile longer with a new seal.

Having done this on loader cylinders, I’d just pull that rod, wet sand it with very fine SiC paper (up thru very fine 3000 - 6000 grits) to clean and polish it, slap new seals on that bad boy, and put it back to work. This is a one-evening job, after the kids are in bed.

 

[salecker]

Probably just a cheep ram to begin with.
I have a lot of old equipment,my one loader is from 1958 my family had owned it since 83 and have never had a ram issue,some of the rams are exposed no matter how you leave it.Water should not hurt the ram,they are chromed like a bumper,which don't rust if they are well made.

 

[blades]

Most likely poor mfg in chicom territories. insufficient prep work before chroming would be my first guess, 2nd would be the composition of the underlying material.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Could water work its way into the system if I was splitting in the rain? While I've always stored it inside with the ram retracted I have split some wood while it was drizzling before.

Im thinking that a horizontal ram with the fittings pointed upwards becomes a reservoir for water, if water is in the system.
I guess running the ram in horizontal postion or keeping the fluid above 212 degrees can help remove that water.
When I moded my horizontal until, (vertical fittings in uncovered service/storage for 35? years) there was no water in the bottom, but there was a dirty/sludge like material I knew I wanted out of that cylinder.

 

[VirginiaIron]

........If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.

I recently picked up an old HM salvage unit with oil spewing out of the rod seal. The rod had slight pitting and damage, and some chrome wear. The seal was $60+ ? shipped. The new seal solved all the problems.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Given that chrome rod is available off the shelf, I find it difficult to believe that rechroming (and grinding) the ram would be cheaper than making a new one. When I was in the machine shop business, we would never even consider repairing a pitted ram. As someone else mentioned, a ready-made generic cylinder might be cheaper yet. Talk to a hydraulic supply/repair shop yourself.

 

[Sawset]

A couple of observations. Lots of hydraulics spend their entire working lives outdoors, in all kinds of miserable conditions. I have not seen mentioned - keep the cylinders out of the weather, or store them retracted - by contractors or others who I've worked with. No one has instructed "make sure that's retracted when your done". Many of the pcs are 20-60 years old. We don't make a habit of sending in cylinders for overhaul. Are splitter cylinders different somehow? Are commercial materials more robust, maybe solid stainless vs chromed? Anyway. I can't comment on rebuild or replace, because that's not been an issue up to this point.
Also, hydraulic oils generally operate in the 180deg range. At those temps the water vapor pressure created would be far high enough to drive off any moisture in the system?

 

[Ashful]

A couple of observations. Lots of hydraulics spend their entire working lives outdoors, in all kinds of miserable conditions. I have not seen mentioned keep the cylinders out of the weather, or store them retracted by contractors or others who I've worked with. No one has instructed "make sure that's retracted when your done". Many of the pcs are 20-60 years old. We don't make a habit of sending in cylinders for overhaul. Are splitter cylinders different somehow? Are commercial materials more robust, maybe solid stainless vs chromed? Anyway. I can't comment on rebuild or replace, because that's not been an issue up to this point.
Also, hydraulic oils generally operate in the 180deg range. At those temps the water vapor pressure created would be far high enough to drive off any moisture in the system?

I think there are a few factors at play.

1. Yes, the quality of the rods on a $80k excavator or $60k loader is likely higher than your $900 Chi-com log splitter.

2. Pro equipment is used daily, or nearly so, likely keeping a nice film of oil on those rods. Your log splitter may be used less than a half dozen days per year, plenty of time for weather to beat away any protective film of oil that develops during use.

3. Ref. above usage frequency, when it gets wet or damp, it may not be run to dry it out for days or weeks.

4. I’ve never seen stainless rods, they sound weak. Most rods are carbon steel and hard chromed.

5. A lot of that pro equipment likely does leak a bit, I’ve never seen a loader or backhoe that doesn’t. Those rods might not be so perfect, after all. My 30+ year old Deere loader has some rust on the farthest ends of the rods, which never retract onto the cylinder.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Cylinder rams are made from 1045/1055 medium carbon steel (so it can be welded) which is hard-chrome plated (Rc 66-72) and ground to a thickness of .0005 - .001 and surface finish of 16 Ra or better. The hard-chrome is primarily for abrasion resistance, rust resistance is just a bonus.

Chrome Plated Steel Bars | Chrome Rod Supplier | Chrome Bar Stock Distributor

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Likely the Chinese chrome job was not up to the standards required in this country.

 

[Sawset]

Cylinder rams are made from 1045/1055 medium carbon steel (so it can be welded) which is hard-chrome plated (Rc 66-72) and ground to a thickness of .0005 - .001 and surface finish of 16 Ra or better. The hard-chrome is primarily for abrasion resistance, rust resistance is just a bonus.

Chrome Plated Steel Bars | Chrome Rod Supplier | Chrome Bar Stock Distributor

teamtubellc.com

Likely the Chinese chrome job was not up to the standards required in this country.

I’ve never seen stainless rods, they sound weak.

There are stainless rods used, mainly in the marine industry.
There are also nichrome coatings used for enhanced corrosion resistance.
Induction case hardening of the rod is available for severe impact conditions, such as in mining or excavating.
But what we do here requires none of those, and as W pointed out, splitter rods are made from 1045 steels and hard chromed for wear and corrosion resistance.
If the conclusion to the op were to shop for a replacement cylinder, what criteria would be used. Price - country of origin - name brand - just a crap shoot>? Lots to choose from. Cylinder dia, pressure, extension, mounting would be a given.

 

[stovepipemike2]

Establish your criteria, buy good quality new-- and never look back. I think as you are happily splitting on a bright sunny day in October, 10 years from now you won't even remember how much you paid,only what a fine job it is doing.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hi folks. So here's where I'm at.

Option A: A local hydraulic shop looked at the cylinder and rod and despite the local small engine shop's hope that it would be a $200 repair the hydraulic folks say they can repair it with a new rod and sleeve (apparently the sleeve has been "egged out".) Not sure how that happened as I am pretty careful to stop the ram whenever I have a tough piece of wood rather than keeping the pressure on it. Cost: $500-$600

Option B: The small engine shop can order a new cylinder with rod and the seals from MTD. $565 plus $100 or so for shipping.

Option C: Attempt to find cheaper parts on line.

Option D: Purchase a new splitter. $1200


So here's my concerns/thoughts:

Option A: This is a decent amount of money for what is a 10-year old splitter. Reliability is important to me. Would I be spending about half of the cost of a new splitter and then risk failure of the engine or other parts down the road?

Option B: The small engine shop said they have never seen or heard of a splitter cylinder egging out like this. Could it be due to the truncheon mount design . . . could it be a design flaw with MTD parts? I've had good luck with this splitter so far, but I wonder if I go this route will I be in the same boat in another ten years?

Option C: I have no idea of the cost of the parts . . . or what parts I would need . . . and the quality of the parts.

Option D: It's a decent amount of money. I am not opposed to getting a new splitter, but I am not the type of person who buys something new just because it is new and shiny. I would do so if it made sense in terms of reliability.

Thoughts?

 

[peakbagger]

Option E - Look around at Surplus Center for an off the shelf cylinder https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/

Unless MTD has changed the design I would not replace it with the same design.