Quadrafire 1200i Starting Problem

[75chev4x4]

Morning everyone, this will be my first post on here. Just wanted to start by saying this is a great site. Before registering as member I have learned how to clean and maintain my stove just by reading posts from other people with similar stoves. Seems like a lot of good info on here and lots of nice people willing to help out.
I have a quadrafire 1200i and am burining packsaddle pellets made here in Oregon. Well I have done all the cleaning I know how to do on this stove: cleaned both the combustion and blower fans, pulled the fire pot and scraped it and cleaned out all the holes including the ignitor hole, vaccumed out the hopper and used pam on the inside of the hopper, cleaned out the trap door on the back left side, blew out the vac hose into the stove, and cleaned and checked all my connections. The problem is the stove not wanting to start up initially or stay running after if completes a cycle and shuts down. For example if I get home from work and the stove is dead cold and I turn on the t stat(programable electric) the fan will cycle for five min then shut down with no fire. Usually I have to turn it on wait 30 seconds and turn off then back on and it will fire up. Then Latley I have noticed that if the hopper is 1/4 full the stove after running one cycle getting the house up to temp will shut down and not come back on when the temp drops. I can see the red call light on but it isnt running( fan or anything at all). The strange thing is I used my manual to troubleshoot and it said something about the stove getting a low vac if the hopper is low on pellets. So I fillled the hopper and the stove ran all night and had the house at 70 this morning. My question is why does it do this if the hopper is low on pellets, I cant seem to figure out how this effects vaccum? I will say that after cleaning this thing runs much much better. Well if anyone has an idea why the stove seems to do this or possible if it sounds like a different problem that I am not seeing please let me know, Thank you.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Morning everyone, this will be my first post on here. Just wanted to start by saying this is a great site. Before registering as member I have learned how to clean and maintain my stove just by reading posts from other people with similar stoves. Seems like a lot of good info on here and lots of nice people willing to help out.
I have a quadrafire 1200i and am burining packsaddle pellets made here in Oregon. Well I have done all the cleaning I know how to do on this stove: cleaned both the combustion and blower fans, pulled the fire pot and scraped it and cleaned out all the holes including the ignitor hole, vaccumed out the hopper and used pam on the inside of the hopper, cleaned out the trap door on the back left side, blew out the vac hose into the stove, and cleaned and checked all my connections. The problem is the stove not wanting to start up initially or stay running after if completes a cycle and shuts down. For example if I get home from work and the stove is dead cold and I turn on the t stat(programable electric) the fan will cycle for five min then shut down with no fire. Usually I have to turn it on wait 30 seconds and turn off then back on and it will fire up. Then Latley I have noticed that if the hopper is 1/4 full the stove after running one cycle getting the house up to temp will shut down and not come back on when the temp drops. I can see the red call light on but it isnt running( fan or anything at all). The strange thing is I used my manual to troubleshoot and it said something about the stove getting a low vac if the hopper is low on pellets. So I fillled the hopper and the stove ran all night and had the house at 70 this morning. My question is why does it do this if the hopper is low on pellets, I cant seem to figure out how this effects vaccum? I will say that after cleaning this thing runs much much better. Well if anyone has an idea why the stove seems to do this or possible if it sounds like a different problem that I am not seeing please let me know, Thank you.

Did you clean the vent and in particular the vent termination?

The stove starts sucking additional air through the hopper or other air movers in the house start sucking the air from the stove, take your pick both can happen and when it gets bad enough the stove can stop due to loss of "vacuum". Any additional crud in the works compounds the matter.

 

[mralias]

Sounds like a fuel supply or quality issue based on all the cleaning you did. Based on the way you describe the problem, it seems the stove shuts down on an almost empty hopper. Does this happen on a full hopper?. If yes then check your feed rate. Is this something new or has it been this way since you have owned the stove? My best guess thus far is fuel supply issue and not an air issue. Pellets stick to the side of the hopper in my CB1200i, so I keep it filled 80% of the time to avoid your described issue.

Any unburned pellets in the burn pot???

 

[75chev4x4]

I cleaned the trap door on the back side and shook out the bent pipe, blew it out last year, not sure if that is the vent termination.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I cleaned the trap door on the back side and shook out the bent pipe, blew it out last year, not sure if that is the vent termination.

Nope up at the top of your flue.

 

[75chev4x4]

Yea it works great with the hopper full now. I think I have the feed rate mailed now, its a nice full flame that fills the fire pot. Before the flame was up bto the baffles, I turned the fan down to med and adjusted the feed and seems fine now. So I guess I will just keep it full and see how that does. Tghanks

 

[ARGlock]

I cleaned the trap door on the back side and shook out the bent pipe, blew it out last year, not sure if that is the vent termination.

I would try blowing it out again with a Leaf Blower from below and see if this helps your performance. I have the same unit and just cleaned my 21 ft. venting this way and Wow, what an increase in performance. If the unit continues this it may be another issue I have in mind in regard to your auger motor and a wire kit you can plug into the harness between the motor and control unit.

Let us know how it goes!!

AR

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The vent termination caps foul over time and folks tend to not think of them and thus even things that wouldn't normally cause an issue will.

 

[75chev4x4]

I will do that with the leaf blower, that wiring kit for the auger sounds interesting.

 

[ARGlock]

I will do that with the leaf blower, that wiring kit for the auger sounds interesting.

It is interesting, I will try and look up the part number and the actual name. If you go over on IBC in the old forum, you will see Kap and I discussing it at great length. It sure cured my problem. The blasted auger would just not feed correctly and acted crazy before installing this. I think several folks had to do the same. What year model 1200i do you have?

AR

 

[75chev4x4]

Says oct 2003

 

[ARGlock]

Says oct 2003

Hey 75Chev,

Sounds like your stove would be about the same age as mine (01 build). Many of this time had this jumper installed later down the road. Here is the post from IBC when I installed this last year.

Yesterday afternoon I installed a Capacitor Rep Jumper #230-2150 between the auger motor and the harness. With much surprise it appears to have cured my ailing stove. It has run all night and is still without problem this morning. This is GOOD NEWS


Hope this helps

AR

PS: Let us know what you find.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Says oct 2003

Hey 75Chev,

Sounds like your stove would be about the same age as mine (01 build). Many of this time had this jumper installed later down the road. Here is the post from IBC when I installed this last year.

Yesterday afternoon I installed a Capacitor Rep Jumper #230-2150 between the auger motor and the harness. With much surprise it appears to have cured my ailing stove. It has run all night and is still without problem this morning. This is GOOD NEWS


Hope this helps

AR

PS: Let us know what you find.

The old auger not turning or going backwards issue.

 

[ARGlock]

The old auger not turning or going backwards issue.[/quote]

That's exactly what the issue was. From what I remember, several of these stoves were doing this. It would be no surprise that we are seeing more doing the same.


AR

 

[DexterDay]

I dont have the insert, but my 1200 will run itself empty without shutting down. It still may be possible that you have a lower vacuum due to a leaky gasket on your door, or burnpot (did you replace the gasket when you cleaned the pot?).

Have you done the dollar bill test around the door gasket? Check all 4 sides in several different spots per side. If the dollar slips out easily, then you need to either tighten the 2 door latches, adjust where tue hinges are, or replace gasket if you cant get it snug enough to grib the bill.

 

[pip3398]

Yea it works great with the hopper full now. I think I have the feed rate mailed now, its a nice full flame that fills the fire pot. Before the flame was up bto the baffles, I turned the fan down to med and adjusted the feed and seems fine now. So I guess I will just keep it full and see how that does. Tghanks

Hey Chev.

Sounds like low vacuum or possibly a vac switch going bad if nothing else is wrong. If the Vac switch is rectangle in shape they had a tendency for the glue that holds the switch to the diaphram to dry out and go bad. The newest vac switch is a lot different and works well. If cleaning everything does not fix everything, then jumper the wires to the vac switch. If it stays working, then then switch is probably bad. Can find a new one at dealer or on ebay.

 

[75chev4x4]

The vac switch looks to be round so hopefully its not the one that is usually faulty. With the hopper full this thing has ran perfect all day long. I did the dollar bill test on it earlier and in some places the dollar bill could be pulled out witout too much effort so I will be ordering a new gasket for the stove today. Under the control box I can see a short yellow wire that is looped from the box and back in, but it looks factory because it has a nice factory looking connector that it plugs in with. Just wondering if the people that had it before me put a jumper in or if this is from the factory that way? Thanks everyone for all the help, I'm really getting into this stuff and its safisfying to see how cleaning a few things makes this stove run better than I've ever seen it run.

 

[75chev4x4]

Hey ARGLOCK, thanks for that part number, love the user name, I have a Glock 17 myself.

 

[tjnamtiw]

If the 1200 is like my Sante Fe and Castile, there is no seal on the hopper lid. It is literally an open hole. When you don't have enough pellets in the hopper to seal the air path up the auger to the nipple where vacuum is measured, you lose vacuum, especially if you are running on LOW. When I first got my stoves, I monitored the vacuum switches and found that they never pulled in at all on LOW and it was marginal on MEDIUM with the hoppers completely empty. Not a good design IMHO.

 

[ARGlock]

Hey ARGLOCK, thanks for that part number, love the user name, I have a Glock 17 myself.

Your welcome 75Chev !! I've got the G22 .40 cal. Great guns!!

If you do put this capacitor jumper in, you will need to take the shields off in the hopper to gain access to the auger motor area. It's fairly simple, just unplug the wires and plug this jumper in between the two ends you just unplugged. Unplug your stove before working on the electrical parts.

Let us know if you get your problems corrected with this unit. If you can't get it fixed, there is this famous Quadrafire Elf from Iowa named Kap that can blink his eyes and cure your stove I hope he doesn't find out I said this, I will be in the "Corner" again
Won't be the first time!!


Stay Warm,

AR

 

[75chev4x4]

Uh the problems back again. This thing has been working great for months now like flawless. Been doing regular cleaning. The other day went to clean it and after it would not stay running after the first cycle like before. Took it apart again blew out the vac line cleaned the hopper no change. Decided this morning to put in the jumper kit I bought and took the hopper cover off noticed the two white wires were melted together crispy. Think they touched the metal when it was hot or something. Cut out the burnt section new connector and installed the jumper worked great for a few cycles and then nothing red call light on and its not running. Anyone have a suggestion on what to check now?

 

[tjnamtiw]

Sorry to hear that. What two white wires are you referring to?

 

[75chev4x4]

Haha. The two that come off the auger motor, that the jumper plugs into.

 

[75chev4x4]

I think ill try the termanation vent when I get home. See if its plugged.

 

[Don2222]

I think ill try the termanation vent when I get home. See if its plugged.

There are 2 other things to try.

1. Remove the wires from the vacuum switch and jumper them together.
To get to the vacuum switch just remove the back.

2. Unplug the Auger Moter and being very carefull, apply power to the Auger with a Line cord to see if the auger turns. If you short the line cord wires together you will blow a house fuse or trip the breaker so be careful

The control box does have a diagnostic mode that you can activate by changing a jumper wire.

From the control box instructions
Jumper Setting 0
This setting performs self test on the appliance.
In order for some of the components to turn on, you must first unplug the appliance and then jump the vacuum switch and the # 1 snap disc before beginning the test.
Plug in the appliance and select diagnostic setting, the following components will turn on sequencially and run for 10 seconds.
Combustion Blower Feed Motor
Convection Blower Ignitor

From the CB1200 Manual
17. Snap Disc #1 (Convection Blower) 145°F
Snap disc #1 is located on the right side of the appliance on
the top of the heat exchanger box. There are 2 purple wires
connected to it. This snap disc turns the convection blower
on and off as needed. Power is always present at snap disc
#1.

After running the diagnostics test put the jumper setting back to 1 for the CB1200 or CB1200i
Note: Jumper Setting 2 is for low density fuel that will increase the feed rate of the auger. See Control Box Instructions.

See pics of Vacuum Switch and Snap Disc # 1 below:
Hope this helps