Quadra-Fire Santa Fe pellet feed rate vs heat setting

[BradH70]

Does anyone know what the approximate lb/hour of pellet burn rate are for each of the 3 heat settings of a Quadra-Fire Santa Fe? I looked in the documents and specs on the Quad web site but could not find any info on this.

Thanks!

 

[smwilliamson]

Depending how often the thermostat calls for heat during and hour divide the ratings below by 8000 to figure out your lbs. per hr...also, this assumes your control box is on the recommended setting...there is a 10% boost available

low 8600-12k
med 16-22k
high 28-34k

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Well, most stoves lbs/hr are measured with them burning for the full hour.

Therefore
Low = 12,000/8,000 = 1.50 lbs/Hr
Med = 22,000/8,000 = 2.75 lbs/hr
High = 34,000/8,000 = 4.25 lbs/hr

How does the 10% boost work Scott?

 

[DexterDay]

Hello

Well, most stoves lbs/hr are measured with them burning for the full hour.

Therefore
Low = 12,000/8,000 = 1.50 lbs/Hr
Med = 22,000/8,000 = 2.75 lbs/hr
High = 34,000/8,000 = 4.25 lbs/hr

How does the 10% boost work Scott?

The control box can be "turned up". Under these guidelines.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Those feed rates, of course, assume that you have the feed gate set properly to result in the average height of the flame on HIGH to be 4-6" above the burn pot. If that isn't set properly for 'today's' load of pellets in the hopper then all bets are off as to the lbs/hour.

 

[Don2222]

Those feed rates, of course, assume that you have the feed gate set properly to result in the average height of the flame on HIGH to be 4-6" above the burn pot. If that isn't set properly for 'today's' load of pellets in the hopper then all bets are off as to the lbs/hour.

-teat- - That is True! The abbreviation will not appear! chit

 

[BradH70]

Excellent! Thanks for all the information.

Dexter, how do I get a copy of that document you have in your post? I can't read it with they way you attached it to the thread.

Just for some enlightenment on why I am asking about feed rate..... I am looking at putting this stove on the second floor of our house. It will be located in a 24' x 24' room that is above an attached 3 car garage and will be at the end of the hallway opposite of the occupied bedrooms. Last winter this room was heated with a zone off of the oil furnace and considering that the base board is as far as possibly could be from the boiler, it was very very inefficient (prior to last winter the room was unfinished and was sealed up during the winter). The heat coming out of the based boards was not very impressive and the boiler was running for a long time to get the room up to temp. The room is very well insulated so it wasn't as if the zone was coming on a lot, it was just the time to take the furnace to satisfy the t-stat. And the t-stat was set for a 2* drop.

I did an experiment in which I shut off the t-stat for this room and left the door open and the upstairs would go down to <60* within a day. If the door to the room was closed the upstairs would maintain 65-67*. I have the M55 on the first floor on a t-stat set at 68* with a 1.5* swing set to HI/LOW operation and this has always kept the downstairs and upstairs comfortable. I didn't want to set the t-stat any higher than that since it would take a significant increase to keep the upstairs in the 65* range with the addition of new room.

So..... my idea is to put a smaller stove (30k-40k output) in this room. If this stove can be controlled by a t-stat in such a manner that it will turn off when the t-stat is satisfied and auto light when the t-stat calls for heat, I think that it will be much more efficient then the oil burner zone. I would set the t-stat controlling the stove somewhere in the range of 65-68* and just let it do it's thing. With the stove in this new room, it would also be adding some nice extra heat to the upstairs which would also take some of the load off of the M55. So a certain small percentage of extra pellets used to run this stove would have been put in the M55 anyway.

The top 4 stove on my list at this point are:
1. Enviro Empress (~$3k)
2. Quadra-Fire Santa-Fe (~$2k)
3. Quadra-Fire Castile (~$3k)
3. St. Croix Hastings (~$3k)

I'm starting to lean towards the Santa-Fe because of it's simplicity and much lower price. I don't think that I need all of the fancy controls that come with the Enviro or St. Croix and I don't need the fancy cast iron look that all the other stoves have. With the Santa-Fe (and Castile) I can set the heat output to low and the let the t-stat control it. This would be similar to the Auto/Off mode of the Empress and Hastings.

Any thoughts from the experts???

 

[Don2222]

Excellent! Thanks for all the information.

Dexter, how do I get a copy of that document you have in your post? I can't read it with they way you attached it to the thread.

Just for some enlightenment on why I am asking about feed rate..... I am looking at putting this stove on the second floor of our house. It will be located in a 24' x 24' room that is above an attached 3 car garage and will be at the end of the hallway opposite of the occupied bedrooms. Last winter this room was heated with a zone off of the oil furnace and considering that the base board is as far as possibly could be from the boiler, it was very very inefficient (prior to last winter the room was unfinished and was sealed up during the winter). The heat coming out of the based boards was not very impressive and the boiler was running for a long time to get the room up to temp. The room is very well insulated so it wasn't as if the zone was coming on a lot, it was just the time to take the furnace to satisfy the t-stat. And the t-stat was set for a 2* drop.

I did an experiment in which I shut off the t-stat for this room and left the door open and the upstairs would go down to <60* within a day. If the door to the room was closed the upstairs would maintain 65-67*. I have the M55 on the first floor on a t-stat set at 68* with a 1.5* swing set to HI/LOW operation and this has always kept the downstairs and upstairs comfortable. I didn't want to set the t-stat any higher than that since it would take a significant increase to keep the upstairs in the 65* range with the addition of new room.

So..... my idea is to put a smaller stove (30k-40k output) in this room. If this stove can be controlled by a t-stat in such a manner that it will turn off when the t-stat is satisfied and auto light when the t-stat calls for heat, I think that it will be much more efficient then the oil burner zone. I would set the t-stat controlling the stove somewhere in the range of 65-68* and just let it do it's thing. With the stove in this new room, it would also be adding some nice extra heat to the upstairs which would also take some of the load off of the M55. So a certain small percentage of extra pellets used to run this stove would have been put in the M55 anyway.

The top 4 stove on my list at this point are:
1. Enviro Empress (~$3k)
2. Quadra-Fire Santa-Fe (~$2k)
3. Quadra-Fire Castile (~$3k)
3. St. Croix Hastings (~$3k)

I'm starting to lean towards the Santa-Fe because of it's simplicity and much lower price. I don't think that I need all of the fancy controls that come with the Enviro or St. Croix and I don't need the fancy cast iron look that all the other stoves have. With the Santa-Fe (and Castile) I can set the heat output to low and the let the t-stat control it. This would be similar to the Auto/Off mode of the Empress and Hastings.

Any thoughts from the experts???

Hello

Well, personally I really like how the Quads work on a T-Stat with a good swing setting like the LUX TX1500u from Lowes. They only have Auto-On/Off mode but will keep the temp right in the range you set!

I had a CB1200 and the loop ignitor was made to last!

One cool feature of the Lux TX1500u is that you can change it from programmable mode to strictly manual mode!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Brad try this link: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...m-unfamilar-with-the-stove.61081/#post-759243

 

[BradH70]

I have a Filtrete 3M-30 ((broken link removed to http://www.radiothermostat.com/filtrete/products/3M-30/)) in the room now and will just disconnect the boiler from it and connect the stove.

I guess my only concern with running the stove in an Auto-ON/OFF mode is the abuse that the ignitor will take. Is the ignitor in the Santa-Fe the same as in the CB1200?

 

[BradH70]

Brad try this link: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...m-unfamilar-with-the-stove.61081/#post-759243

Thanks Smokey!

 

[DexterDay]

I have a Filtrete 3M-30 ((broken link removed to http://www.radiothermostat.com/filtrete/products/3M-30/)) in the room now and will just disconnect the boiler from it and connect the stove.

I guess my only concern with running the stove in an Auto-ON/OFF mode is the abuse that the ignitor will take. Is the ignitor in the Santa-Fe the same as in the CB1200?

Yes..... Same ignitor. Quads are quite reliable on a stat. I put a new ignitor in this past season (3 on 1st ignitor). I had 2 misfires, so I replaced. After I installed the new one. I put it on a patch cord amd plugged it in. The ignitor was still good! I had the feed rate set to low (there is a slide within the hopper to fine tune each setting/pellet brand).

As for the document. I downloaded it off of this site. It has shown up in several threads. I will do a search and see if I can find the original location.

If the budget needs to be smaller, then take a look at the Heatilator (owned by HHT / Quad) brand. The PS-35 is a Santa Fe/Castile with a different shell. They have the same burn pot, motors, etc as the Santa Fe/Castile. Also use a different way to exchange the heat (no tubes)

 

[BradH70]

That is good to know about the durability of ignitor. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the Quad before I make a decision. I'm not looking to cheap out on a stove, in fact, I'm still considering the Empress to be my first choice. I want to make sure that I am getting the right stove for the job though, and if that means a cheaper stove then the Enviro, then all the better. Everyone that has a Quad seems to really like them. All stoves can have issues so I try to stay away from "product review" web sites and get as much info as I can here at Hearth.

 

[Don2222]

That is good to know about the durability of ignitor. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the Quad before I make a decision. I'm not looking to cheap out on a stove, in fact, I'm still considering the Empress to be my first choice. I want to make sure that I am getting the right stove for the job though, and if that means a cheaper stove then the Enviro, then all the better. Everyone that has a Quad seems to really like them. All stoves can have issues so I try to stay away from "product review" web sites and get as much info as I can here at Hearth.

You are welcome.

Getting the right stove to do what you want is very important. So getting all the knowledge is very helpful to an intelligent decision. I have an Enviro Meridian that I just fixed up. They are very good stoves but are different. They use a standard cartridge ignitor and with the T-stat and the control panel in Auto-On/Off mode works very different. After the stove turns on and the T-Stat is satisfied, all the Enviro stoves go into a Low fire for 30 mins before shutdown. In my test case it made the room way too hot before shutdown because it is a small 10x10 room. The quad on the other hand will shut right down at the hi limit temp that you decide. That is the set temp plus the swing setting. So if the swing setting is 2 degrees and the temp is set for 70 then the quad will shut down right at 72 deg F. In the same case the Enviro will continue for 30 mins more at 72 Deg F on low fire. The reason for this is so you can use a manual T-stat on the Enviro and not on a Quad.

Anyway, to be fair the Quad does have the Auto-Hi/Lo feature that Enviro has, where after the T-Stat is satisfied the stove will remain on and go to low fire. This is to save wear an tear on the Ignitor. Many stoves have that feature. However if you have such a nice heavy loop ignitor like the Quad has, then you really may not need that feature! ! Depends upon what your needs are. I called 2 Enviro dealers and even to Enviro Headquarters in Canada and asked if I could bypass that 30 min Low fire before shutdown. Enviro said NO. However they are working on a brand new design digital control panel with built in Wi-Fi and may have that available someday!

 

[BradH70]

Hi Don, Thanks again for the info.

I'm pretty familiar with the Enviro operations, having an M55 insert, and yes, I am thinking that letting the stove run for an extra 30 minutes after the t-stat is satisfied could potentially make the room a bit warmer then I would want. I guess I could reduce the t-stat settings by a couple of degrees though. However, I don't believe that the Ignitor in the Enviro will be a durable as the one in the Quad.

Ok, so I have another question..... I have heard a lot of issues about misfires with the Quads because the burn pots fill up with ash/pellets and then they can't auto light. Is this due to a design issue, pellet issue or lazy owner not cleaning the stove issue? Or maybe a combination of all 3? I pretty good about cleaning my M55, pretty much 2 twice a week when it is running 24/7. I will be burning MWP blend and LG Granules (ordering next week) this season, so decent pellets will be going into the hopper.

I'm wondering if I should start a new thread..... "I need to know everything there is to know about a Quad Santa-Fe"


Thanks again for all the help!

 

[DexterDay]

The misfires are a problem that can be solved by cleaning and having the feed gate set in the hopper (proper).

Closing the gate inside, restricts the fuel feed and gives the stove fewer pellets on start-up. I run mine on Low 90% of the time, so I run it Wide open (more heat at a lower setting). If your gonna run on Med or High, I suggest setting the flame height per the manual 4"-6" above the pot.

Pull the.clean-out on the pot (bottom opens and drops ash or clinker) every day or three and clean stove at least bi-weekly (weekly is best). And you'll be fine. Quads have a pot designed to eject all the ash (proper set-up, feed, air, etc). So they stay clean for the most part.

Good luck.

 

[BradH70]

Nice, thanks Dexter,

If I go with the Quad, I will first try to run it in the Low setting and see how well it brings the room up to temp. If it seems to take to long, then I will go to Medium. I don't think that I would ever need to leave it in the High setting, it would be heating just a single room (24'x24') plus what ever escapes out into the hallway.

Sounds like an easy stove to keep clean. My M55 has the agitator that keeps the burn pot from filling up, but I don't believe that the Empress has that.

Do the Santa-Fe and Castile share the same guts and just have a different shell?

 

[DexterDay]

Yep.... Same stove. Just different bodies. Same with the PS-35 (Heatilator). And the CB 1200 and PS-50. Same stoves, same BTU, same motors, burn pot, ignitor, etc...

Quads are some of the most simplistic stoves, along with putting out tons of heat..

There is a Convection blower mod, where you can have the feed on Low and have the blower on High (no matter the setting). Will dive more into that once you get the stove and/or see the need. Good luck

 

[Don2222]

Hi Don, Thanks again for the info.

I'm pretty familiar with the Enviro operations, having an M55 insert, and yes, I am thinking that letting the stove run for an extra 30 minutes after the t-stat is satisfied could potentially make the room a bit warmer then I would want. I guess I could reduce the t-stat settings by a couple of degrees though. However, I don't believe that the Ignitor in the Enviro will be a durable as the one in the Quad.

Ok, so I have another question..... I have heard a lot of issues about misfires with the Quads because the burn pots fill up with ash/pellets and then they can't auto light. Is this due to a design issue, pellet issue or lazy owner not cleaning the stove issue? Or maybe a combination of all 3? I pretty good about cleaning my M55, pretty much 2 twice a week when it is running 24/7. I will be burning MWP blend and LG Granules (ordering next week) this season, so decent pellets will be going into the hopper.

I'm wondering if I should start a new thread..... "I need to know everything there is to know about a Quad Santa-Fe"


Thanks again for all the help!

Oh, you are welcome.

One issue I found on the older Quads causing misfires is what we now know as CSS = Cold Start Syndrome!
This has been an issue on many stoves during the start sequence. When designs went from knobs to control boxes and digital control boards, the initial design did not start the Combustion blower on HIGH during the start sequence. This caused insufficient vacuum and false starts. The old year 2,000 Quad I had actually had this problem when starting on LOW heat level when the shed was real cold! So all manufacturers discovered this issue and change their auto controls to use Hi for the exhaust fan no matter what the heat level is set to during the start sequence! So for older stoves just upgrading the control will cure the now famous CSS problem!

 

[DexterDay]

Brad, see J-takemans post (#3). This is where I downloaded it.

Much larger here..... click link quad santa fe short flame, and I'm unfamilar with the stove

 

[Cowdogz]

The Santa Fe is a great, simple stove and runs really well on a thermostat. The only times I've had a misfire was when I let the hopper run out of pellets. In those instances, I found that I could not just re-fill it and hit the re-set button. I had to hit the re-set button 2-3 times to get it to feed enough pellets into the firepot before it would ignite.

 

[BradH70]

Thanks Cowdogz. I'm really starting to lean towards the Santa-Fe or Castile. I read the manuals and with all the info I am getting here, it is starting to sound like these stoves will do exactly what I had originally considered setting up the Empress to do. But with the Quads I get the impression that the ignitor was designed just for the Auto ON/OFF purpose. The Enviro ignitors maybe not so much.

I think it might be time to start doing some window shopping

 

[tjnamtiw]

Nice, thanks Dexter,

Do the Santa-Fe and Castile share the same guts and just have a different shell?

I have both and the guts are BASICALLY the same. On my models, the snap disks are located at different places. Both of mine are inserts, though, so free standing units may be different.

As to cold starts, as I believe Dexter said, it happens if the feed gate isn't set properly OR you put in pellets that are much longer than the previous bag's pellets. That would mean fewer pellets and less chance of getting up to temp to allow the feed motor to start feeding.

I find both units are super simple to operate and work on even though they are inserts. If you search back and look for springs and turbulators, you will find some experimenting that some of us did to extract more heat out of the units. Something to consider down the road.

 

[BradH70]

More good info, thanks again.

I looked at a used Castile this past Saturday and ended up buying it. It was used for just one season and then the owner switched to propane and put the stove in the basement for two years. Just needs a little cleaning on the inside to take care of some surface rust.

Paid $1,500 for it. I believe it was a fair deal.

I will post some pics tonight.

 

[tjnamtiw]

More good info, thanks again.

I looked at a used Castile this past Saturday and ended up buying it. It was used for just one season and then the owner switched to propane and put the stove in the basement for two years. Just needs a little cleaning on the inside to take care of some surface rust.

Paid $1,500 for it. I believe it was a fair deal.

I will post some pics tonight.

Sounds like a good deal. You'll be happy with it, for sure!