Quad Mt. Vernon smoke smell is getting very frustrating - please help!

[PelletGirl]

We had our Quad Mt Vernon installed one week ago. We had to vent through an interior wall into our utility room, then up and out. Since install, we have smelled smoke on start up and saw little wisps at the stove and in the piping in the utility room. They came back this past Friday, put more silicone on and we left the stove off for 24 hours. Now, upon start-up, there is no smell or smoke in the room where the stove is located (yay!) but we still smell smoke in the utility room. We don't see any smoke, even using a flashlight.

I know it means we must have a leak but where? Everything has been sealed - twice - and we see no smoke. Can it be coming in from outside where it exhausts? There is also silicone around the thimble and the OAK termination. What else can it be??? This is so frustrating. Love the way the stove is working and I just want this resolved so I can enjoy it. Help please!

 

[JDenyer236]

Here is what I have found. Sometimes the leak is so small that you cannot see it. These types of leaks often seal themselves up over a few days once the interior of the vent gets a slight coating on it. Mine did the same thing for a few days and now there is no odor at all. Just make sure you have a working smoke detector and CO detector.

 

[kappel15]

The way to find smoke is in the dark with a flashlight during start up when it is the smokiest.. Much easier to see then, cause once pipe warms up and starts drafting better, little to no smoke comes out. And depending on wind direction and windows/doors, it can come in them. Time to do some snooping. Stay in touch. kap

 

[JDenyer236]

Oh, are there any Windows or openings like a dryer vent located near the exhaust outlet?

 

[PelletGirl]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Just want to make sure my home is safe.

We have hardwired smoke detectors (if one goes off, all of them in the house go off). We have several CO detectors, including one right behind the stove.

We tried the flashlight in the dark right at start up and didn't see anything. Maybe we'll try that again. I'm glad the smoke smell is gone by the stove as that is a step in the right direction, but I was hoping it would have all been corrected.

There are no windows, doors or vent openings near the vent termination. We have a sealed up dryer vent since we moved the dryer and a closed window in the room with the stove (which is why we had to go through the interior wall and then out in the first place) so it doesn't seem it's coming in through them.

Maybe I will run the stove very hot to see if it seals any tiny leaks in the pipe. If nothing else, it may make it easier to see smoke with a flashlight. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[hooter04]

I would tape every pipe joint with aluminum tape also

 

[DMKNLD]

PelletGirl - bummer you're still having vent issues. I *assume* your install guy re-siliconed all the pipe sections from the stove connection until it goes outside, and not just the connection from the stove to the vent pipe?

What brand of vent pipe did you have installed? I know some brands have had more leak issues than others. I remember one post on this forum where a guy with Duravent pipe had to silicone or tape seal every joint, seam, and rivet to get his to not leak. I have the Duravent pipe, but only 1 vent section junction inside the house, where a 45 angle connects the stove to the through-the-wall section. I used to get a faint smoke smell after reconnecting the stove to the vent pipe following a deep cleaning and vent brushing, which typically resolved after a couple 'hot' burns. So some small leak was apparently resealing after a couple of heat up / cool down cycles.

So I taped it with high temp silicone tape just to be safe, and now I don't get any smoke smell after I've separated / cleaned / reconnected the stove.

 

[PelletGirl]

We have Duravent also - the black pipe - pro-pellet I think it's called. As far as I know, they put silicone around everything from the stove to the thimble for the exterior. I'm thinking the tape might be a good idea. It's not too cold here right now so the stove isn't on but I'm going to try the flashlight again and If I don't see anything I think tape is the way to go.

 

[DMKNLD]

That's what I have too for venting. Focus especially on where your pipe changes direction - 45's, 90's, elbow's, T clean outs seem to be where folks most get leaks - where there are allot of metal junction points. Remember to have the room as dark as you can get it, and hold the flashlight opposite the side you're looking from and you will see the smoke easier.

Did you run it hot for a while to let that 2nd silicone job get good and warm? It may be worth opening your windows and run it on high since it's warmish out and see if that can help seal any micro-leaking you might be having.

You'll get it figured out and 'dialed in' yet - Pellet Girl, as frustrating as that process can be some times. We've all been there ! Keep the faith !

 

[Deering]

I had a Mt. Vernon and had exactly the same problem. First thing in the morning I could smell it immediately after it fired up, while I was still in bed, and the smell never stopped. Had the installers back several times. Siliconed every joint. Inspected with a flashlight, exactly as others above have recommended. Finally solved it.

What size flue pipe do you have? I had 3". It's too small for the Mt. Vernon if you're running it any distance (I was running mine about 15', with three ells, a 90 and two 45's. I changed it out to 4" pipe and that solved everything.

Hope this helps for you.

 

[DMKNLD]

PelletGirl, Looking back at your first post in this thread, you mentioned that your venting goes out from your stove room, through part of your utility room, then up and out. What was your total EVL - equivalent vent length, and how much of that is the horizontal run component of your vent config ?

Smoke flowing horizontal is always going to be harder for your combustion blower to push out and clear the smoke to the termination vent, vs in a vertical stack section of pipe, thus increasing the chance of a leak if you have any unsealed place of a long horizontal run.

Do you have a framing level you can lay on a horizontal section of pipe to make sure it rises at least slightly uphill ? A 1/4" raise in the pipe for every foot of horizontal run is the recommendation, I believe, to help the smoke flow along. Your installer *should* have set your venting up to allow for that pipe elevation rise, but it would be worth checking that just in case.

 

[PelletGirl]

The horizontal is about three feet and there is an uphill angle to it (you can see if by looking at it from one end). Is that considered a long horizontal run? The only other horizontal is what goes outside (I believe about 12" - 18").

Our EVL is longer than 15' but we checked the manual that came with the stove and it says you can use 3" or 4" pipe at that length and our elevation. Our installer checked with Quad and they told him 3" was fine. Don't know if the 4" would help though.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The two primary areas are at the appliance adapter, frequently they do not get a full seal around where the adapter mates to the stove and sometimes they don't fasten it mechanically and every once in a while they pierce through both sections of the pipe and don't goop up the screws.

Then the second is the clean-out tee at either the clean-out cap or the saddle joint lots of stress is put on that joint if they didn't use a support bracket on the vertical section above the clean-out.

Next any joint made using screws this is just like the case of piercing both layers of the vent at the adapter.

A red light makes it easy to see smoke, if it is getting out around the screws holding the venting together there will be a dirty v pointing at the screw or anywhere there is a small hole.

 

[railfanron]

Smokey's got the right advice.
Ron

 

[chken]

Definitely tape the seams and look carefully at the bends.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

There is also the possibility that they screwed up the thimble setup on the outside of the house, this would allow smoke to enter around or through the thimble. The thimble needs to be sealed around the pipe outdoors where it exits the thimble as well as the thimble being sealed all the way around where the thimble meets the house on the outside.

You do not seal around where the pipe enters the thimble on the inside of the house.

 

[Deering]

Our installer checked with Quad too, and they said 3" was OK, but all I can say is that the switch to 4" cured it for me. But there was a cost differential. Maybe the installers had screwed up something on the original install that they corrected the second time around, but I examined things pretty closely when the switch occurred and nothing was evident to me. Looked like exactly the same installation, just with larger pipe.

Sounds like Smokey has a lot of experience, so I'd follow his recommendations. But if all of those efforts fail to solve it, think about the 4".

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Our installer checked with Quad too, and they said 3" was OK, but all I can say is that the switch to 4" cured it for me. But there was a cost differential. Maybe the installers had screwed up something on the original install that they corrected the second time around, but I examined things pretty closely when the switch occurred and nothing was evident to me. Looked like exactly the same installation, just with larger pipe.

Sounds like Smokey has a lot of experience, so I'd follow his recommendations. But if all of those efforts fail to solve it, think about the 4".

Everything changed when that 4" replaced the 3" especially if any mistook like using a fractionally longer self-taping screw than should have been used on the first go around happened but more than likely they paid more attention the second time around.

Folks have pulled apart venting to discover a gasket inserted the wrong way or having been mangled. It pays to go slow on venting installation.

ETA: Smoke in this house would set the skillet swinger in action when she finally was able to breath, Smokey knows to be very mindful when venting is involved just because I don't want to gain any experience that way. My experience is more from reading most of the posts on here of people crying in their spilled smoke so to speak and the vent makers instructions.

 

[Deering]

You sure are right about that skillet swinger thing. Still have the lumps to prove it.

Much as I loved my pellet stoves (once I solved the smoke business), I love my pellet boiler even better. And a lot fewer lumps. Sold the pellet stoves on Craig's List in about 5 minutes - bet I had 20 inquiries the first two days. Don't miss the fan noise, nor the near daily humping of bags of pellets upstairs. But fine units nonetheless, especially that Mt. Vernon.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

Personally, I solved my problems with silicone tape. Much easier to remove when needed.

 

[PelletGirl]

Thanks for all the suggestions. We are trying them one by one to see what we can determine. Very slow process.