Proper Care and Feeding of a Chainsaw

[mayhem]

Anyone I haven't bored to tears with my quest for a new saw, you can read my latest escapades here, where I finally make a decision.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/73862/

So now that I have a nice, shiny new saw, its time to a) take good care of it and b) figure out why my old one died so if I'm the one who messed it up I cna hopefully avoid that same mistake with the new one that cost me 4x what theold one did.

The old Craftsman 18" 42cc saw was purchased in 1998 and served me well till last summer when it started getting more and more difficult to start. Finally took it in for service and the piston is pitted and scuffed up and the saw is losing compression...cost of repair is silly compared to the cost of the saw so I buy a new saw.

So I've got a couple suspicoins about what went wrong, tell me what you think.

I've been told by a couple saw dealers that they always recommend using premium gas instead of regular due to a lower ethanol content and more ethanol in a 2 stroke can cause excessive wear in the piston...but I'm not so sure about that..isn't the ethanol content mandated by the state or federal govt and is a fixed 10% across all grades of gas? I always use regular in all my outdoor power equipment (OPE). The last couple years I've been adding seafoam to the gas can when I fill it to help stabilize the fuel and to help keep the motor clean.

I've always started my saw and let it idle for minute r two to warm up a bit before I rev it too high or put a load on it. I noticed that whenever my brother starts his trusty old Stihl 038AV that it seems to run wide open throttle as soon as it catches...he never touches the throttle either so I figured its either really screwed up or maybe, just maybe, Stihl knows something that Poulan doesn't.

I've always used inexpensive mixing oil from walmart or home depot or wherever had a good deal when I needed it. Maybe its gritty? Should you use the Stihl or Husqvarna mix?

Maybe I'm over analyzing this and my old saw was just ready to die. Stuff wears out over time and I've cut about 25 cords with that thing...it owes me nothing for the $100 I bought it for. Last summer it did alot more work in a short period of time than it ever has before (when I had access to as much read oak as I cold cut at work...I cut 3 truckloads a week for close to a month...each load was about a tank of fuel)...maybe just too much for it.

Any thoughts? What do you guys do for care and feeding? Wasn't as big a concern when I had a 10 year old $100 saw.

 

[Danno77]

There are plenty of ethanol threads here and on the AS. I say that if you run new fuel it fairly regularly that it is a moot point. Non-ethanol would be better, I guess. My advice is to pick something and stick with it. tune your saw to the fuel and don't mess with your fuel concoction after you do.

second, clean your saw. A clean saw is a happy saw. there is a whole host of nastiness in some kinds of wood pulp, you don't want it eating away at your precious saw.

thirdly store your saw in a dry place and don't store it on cement. cement is just nasty stuff, and many metals will rot (especially old magnesium type saws)

you mentioned warm up. Good. don't forget cool down. a lot of people will run full throttle and then bam shut it off. that's bad. you need to let it cool down at idle for a minute first.

you ask about mix? i dunno. all mixes are NOT equal, but I find that they are equal enough, that it won't make a big difference. again, pick something and stick with it after you tune your saw.

did I mention to tune your saw? Jay, where's that link? Biggest mistake I see is when people have a saw running too rich or lean. get good at this, you will surprise yourself when you notice how many people are running 2 strokes that aren't tuned to spec.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, but those are some basics.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

One point on warming up that motor. Rather than letting it idle we've always sped it up a bit. Not full throttle right away but the motor will warm up and run better with some throttle rather than idle. It really does not take long for that little motor to warm up and you are ready to cut.

 

[Danno77]

One point on warming up that motor. Rather than letting it idle we've always sped it up a bit. Not full throttle right away but the motor will warm up and run better with some throttle rather than idle. It really does not take long for that little motor to warm up and you are ready to cut.

You can really tell when it's warmed up by feeling the exhaust. least that's how I do it for the first cut of the day.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

And you also can tell by the way the saw is running. Running smooth, it is ready to cut.

 

[REM505]

I know from the Stihl site it says to use fuel with a min. octane of 89. and that using a lower grade fuel may cause increased engine temps which may then lead to piston seizure. and I did not see a disclaimer that that statement was paid for by Exxon.

from (broken link removed to http://www.stihlusa.com/stihl_ownersmanuals/MS210230250_Manual.pdf) page 33

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I've ran both premium and regular in the saw. I also know of many in this area who have never used anything other than regular (87 octane). One neighbor also uses Sunoco which has ethanol but I stick with gas only.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Anyone I haven't bored to tears with my quest for a new saw, you can read my latest escapades here, where I finally make a decision.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/73862/

So now that I have a nice, shiny new saw, its time to a) take good care of it and b) figure out why my old one died so if I'm the one who messed it up I cna hopefully avoid that same mistake with the new one that cost me 4x what theold one did.

The old Craftsman 18" 42cc saw was purchased in 1998 and served me well till last summer when it started getting more and more difficult to start. Finally took it in for service and the piston is pitted and scuffed up and the saw is losing compression...cost of repair is silly compared to the cost of the saw so I buy a new saw.

So I've got a couple suspicoins about what went wrong, tell me what you think.

I've been told by a couple saw dealers that they always recommend using premium gas instead of regular due to a lower ethanol content and more ethanol in a 2 stroke can cause excessive wear in the piston...but I'm not so sure about that..isn't the ethanol content mandated by the state or federal govt and is a fixed 10% across all grades of gas? I always use regular in all my outdoor power equipment (OPE). The last couple years I've been adding seafoam to the gas can when I fill it to help stabilize the fuel and to help keep the motor clean.

I've always started my saw and let it idle for minute r two to warm up a bit before I rev it too high or put a load on it. I noticed that whenever my brother starts his trusty old Stihl 038AV that it seems to run wide open throttle as soon as it catches...he never touches the throttle either so I figured its either really screwed up or maybe, just maybe, Stihl knows something that Poulan doesn't.

I've always used inexpensive mixing oil from walmart or home depot or wherever had a good deal when I needed it. Maybe its gritty? Should you use the Stihl or Husqvarna mix?

Maybe I'm over analyzing this and my old saw was just ready to die. Stuff wears out over time and I've cut about 25 cords with that thing...it owes me nothing for the $100 I bought it for. Last summer it did alot more work in a short period of time than it ever has before (when I had access to as much read oak as I cold cut at work...I cut 3 truckloads a week for close to a month...each load was about a tank of fuel)...maybe just too much for it.

Any thoughts? What do you guys do for care and feeding? Wasn't as big a concern when I had a 10 year old $100 saw.

FACT: air cooled 2 stroke engines are not picky about oil so use whatever you want.

FACT: you will not burn 3 gallons of saw gas this year so it won't kill you to get the good stuff

FACT: You old saw was a HOS and you wore it out. More expensive oil wouldn't have changed that.

FACT: Don't be fooled by the picture of a chainsaw on the bottle, or by the words "Stihl" Or "Husqvarna." They're just bottling oil from some random refinery.

 

[CTYank]

Many (most?) saws Sears sells are not designed for long, hard lives; rather, they're suburb queens.
Cleanliness is important with chainsaws, notably with incoming air and cooling fins. Make sure there's a clean filter on the fuel line in the tank.

Lots of fear-factor and mumbo-jumbo about fuel lately.
Octane is not correlated with ethanol concentration. Ethanol, in fact, is a fine fuel- less volatile than gasoline, and can absorb moisture, though.
Follow mfg fuel recommendations, which is mostly "regular" grade.
Most 2-stroke oil incorporates fuel-conditioner. Store fuel in a cool, dry place, in a sealed container, obviously enough.

Warmup at part-throttle is a good thing, according to recent study. 2-strokes take forever to warm up at idle.
Sounds like your brother has a serious safety prob, if his throttle is locked wide open. Stay well clear of that.

Oil's lots cheaper than engines. I'd suggest a branded bottle of 50:1. Difference is possibly in the additive package, not foreign matter.
Measure accurately when mixing. See above re storage. Shake container before pouring.
As others have said, learn (a/r) how to keep carb properly adjusted. That, and not going overboard on oil in the mix, will
slow deposits in the chamber, the exhaust port, and muffler. Some of those, on breaking loose, can fiend a piston. Blockages reduce power.

Sharp chain puts MUCH less load on engine; I'd suggest keeping it like razors. Hand-filing is really the way to go.
Listen to it. It will often express mechanical unhappiness.

 

[KarlP]

I wouldn't worry about the brand of oil or the % ethanol (if % is more than 0% and less than 10% anyway).

The big things in my mind are...

Don't get any junk in the gas/oil tanks. Brush off the caps before unscrewing.
Remove and knock the dust off the air filter regularly.
Grease the sprocket bearing once in a while.
Use a good sealing gas can and don't mix more gas than you'll use in six months. (If its more than six months old, I'll dump it in the car.)

Basically read the owners manual and do at least half of what it suggests.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

I started using Seafoam myself and have found it useful. It corrected one problem I had in just one cap ful. If you see alot of black or white smoke you either mixed the fuel wrong or you have a tuneup issue. The sound of the saw can tell you alot. I think the biggest reason most people ruin their saws is by pouring straight gas in the tank. I like to store my gas in metal cans and I am real careful about the mixture.

 

[smokinj]

BIGGEST THING IS TO KEEP YOUR SAW BLOWN OUT WITH AN AIR COMPRESSOR AIR FILTER CLEAN ALL THE TIME! (when you take the airfilter off set the choke keep the extra crap out)
I run veggie oil for bar oil. Two cycle oil just whatever on sale. Those 6 pack one shots last me about 3 weeks.

 

[oldspark]

A ton of info on the internet about 2 strokes and ethanol, they recomend a fully synthetic oil to be used with it as it mixes better, here is just one of a countless number of articles about it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/ns/business-consumer_news/

 

[smokinj]

A ton of info on the internet about 2 strokes and ethanol, they recomend a fully synthetic oil to be used with it as it mixes better, here is just one of a countless number of articles about it.
(broken link removed to http://www.msn.msn.com/id/25936782/ns/business-consumer_news/)

I stick with the synthetic once I got the 880 broken in. Gas I buy the highest octane I can. Oh and I run 40:1 its better when milling and the other saws drink from the same can.

 

[jdemaris]

the piston is pitted and scuffed up and the saw is losing compression...
So I've got a couple suspicoins about what went wrong, tell me what you think.

I've always used inexpensive mixing oil from walmart or home depot or wherever had a good deal when I needed it. Maybe its gritty? Should you use the Stihl or Husqvarna mix?

Having a saw with a high-qualitly cylinder wall is a big factor. Not easy to tell when buying one. Years ago there were many, many bad saws with soft aluminum cylinder walls or aluminum with a thin chrome plating that could peel off. Stihl got famous by using cylinders with the "Mahl" process. Some sort of chromium and silicon impregnated wall that is very durable. Now adays I will assume that all higher end saws have the equivalent.

Other factors include never running lean, and not forcing the saw to cut with a dull chain. By "lean" I mean running with too much air and two little fuel. Keep in mind that technically, adding extra oil to the gas mix makes a saw run leaner since the carb works partly by volume. More oil per given space means less gasoline. No problem when the carb is adjusted properly.

In regard to two-stroke-oil types, there are huge differences. But, most that I've seen do not get API tested and certified, so you have to be trusting and "take their word for it" in regard to quality. The TCW marine rating is much more common.

If you're buying the two-stroke-cycle oil at Walmart in the gallon jugs - it's probably oil made mostly for water-cooled engines. That's what the "W" stands for at the end of the TCW rating. This oil is certified by the marine industry for water-cooled engines, not high-RPM, high-heat, high-load air cooled engines. That doesn't mean it will hurt a chain saw; but it is not certified to protect it as well as the oil that IS certified for chain-saw type engines. API TC is the standard for high RPM, high-load, high-heat air-cooled engines. Good luck finding it in chain or local stores.

I've been using cheap TCW, TCWII, or TCWIII oil for over 40 years and having been using a 20-1 mix in all with no wear issues -ever. I've always used regular gas also. Granted this 10% ethanol thing is somewhat new, but no problems yet that I've noticed.
Back around 1973, when I was a saw mechanic . . . we were told that unleaded gas was going to be a problem. That did not pan out. The fear then was that it would not mix properly with oil and would separate when it sat for awhile.

I will say that with some of my newest saws - if I hadn't tweaked them a bit, they would of self-destructed in short order. One of my new Dolmars, my new Efco, and all my cheap Poulans ran way too lean with a 20-1 mix of Walmart TCWIII oil. I had to defeat the adjusters and tune them a bit. Then all was fine.

You bought a quality saw. Make sure it's not running lean and always cut with a sharp chain and you will probably be fine. Not always easy to tell with newer EPA type saws but . . . it ought to be rich enough that it breaks up a bit at high-rev no-load, and smooth out when you start cutting.

When it comes to sharp chains. If you cut a lot of wood and use full-chisel chain - you might be better off with 2-3 extra chains and swap chains when they get dull - unless only minor file sharpening is needed.

On a side-note, besides ruining a saw engine, constant cutting with dull chains can plug up the fuel screen inside the carb also. I've had to fix many for customers. A dull chain tends to make a lot of fine dust instead of chips. Often that dust will get into the fuel tank (from refueling) and will pass right through the tank filter and into the carb where it collects on the screen.

 

[oldspark]

This is a post from a fishing site and talks about the oil mixing with the ethanol.
"Ethanol and 2 cycle oil do not mix together as do gasoline and oil, Dont believe me, put gas made with ethanol in a glass container and mix in 2 cycle oil, you will see the ethanol bead around the oil as it doesnt mix, 2 cycle outboards with oil injection can burn down because of this problem, this is why marinas such as ours can legally only sell premium gas in minnesota because it can be used in 2 and 4 stroke outboards. 4 strokes can burn the ethanol made gases without a problem"
I assume he is talking about the regular oil not synthetic.

 

[smokinj]

This is a post from a fishing site and talks about the oil mixing with the ethanol.
"Ethanol and 2 cycle oil do not mix together as do gasoline and oil, Dont believe me, put gas made with ethanol in a glass container and mix in 2 cycle oil, you will see the ethanol bead around the oil as it doesnt mix, 2 cycle outboards with oil injection can burn down because of this problem, this is why marinas such as ours can legally only sell premium gas in minnesota because it can be used in 2 and 4 stroke outboards. 4 strokes can burn the ethanol made gases without a problem"
I assume he is talking about the regular oil not synthetic.

Things that make you say hummmmmmm, when running 2k chainsaw on a long run....

 

[jdemaris]

I assume he is talking about the regular oil not synthetic.

It's not always easy knowing what to believe and what to worry about.

Even the term "synthetic oil" in the USA can be misleading. Last I checked, the USA is the only major country in the world where it is legal to sell motor oil as "synthetic" and "pure synthetic" even when it's made from petroleum.

Only way to get a better idea of what is in the "synthetic" container is the Tier III or Tier IV rating - IF they even provide the info on the bottle. Often the do not. Another way to tell is read the product data sheets and look at the "flash point" ratings.

 

[oldspark]

Is the Ultra Stihl oil a true synthetic?

 

[smokinj]

Is the Ultra Stihl oil a true synthetic?

I think its a blend.

 

[jdemaris]

Is the Ultra Stihl oil a true synthetic?

I have no idea, but I'd assume it would be a good air-cooled rated oil, whatever it is.

The German Nazis started the synthetic oil thing. They did it due to a shortage of petroleum during the war.

The USA military got interested because of its stabil viscosity and high heat tolerance.

Now - I guess when you choose something labeled as "synthetic", much depends on what you're expecting.

The tier III oils being sold in the USA as "synthetic" often have no higher heat tolerance then many petro oils.

If you buy a higher priced tier IV synthetic, especially racing oils, the "flash point" is much higher.

 

[jdemaris]

Is the Ultra Stihl oil a true synthetic?

I just read the datasheet from Sthil for their HP Ultra oil. From what I read, it is not a true synthetic oil, but does have a pretty high flash point of 428 F. Made from petroleum distallates. Made by Omni for Stihl. I posted the flash point specs of some other oils. Funny thing is the Shell Rotella T petro-oil in 30W has a pretty high rating of 450 F. Much higher then Castrol Syntec at 392 F that is sold as synthetic and it's not.

PRODUCT NAME STIHL 2-CYCLE ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE ENGINE OIL

O M N I S P E C I A L T Y P A C K A G I N G
10399 HWY 1 • SHREVEPORT, LA 71115 • (318) 524-1100
Contact Name: Curtis Young Emergency Phone Number: (318) 347-5023
Packaged for Stihl Incorporated, 536 Viking Drive, Virginia Beach, VA 23452

COMPONENT WT.% C.A.S. No
Petroleum Distillates, Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic

All mineral oils used in this product have been severely hydrotreated and/or solvent refined. This
product does not contain any substances known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth
defects or other reproductive harm.

Flash Point (PM), °C 220, 428 degrees Fahrenheit



Group IV Synthetic oil in USA - API base stock for synthetic oils -synthetic esters, or PAO - polyalphaolefin

Amsoil Synthetic - flash point - 10w-30= 453F

Mobil 1 Synthetic - flash point - 10w-30= 446F

Valvoline Synthetic EPA highway use oils - 10w-30= 433F

Valvoline Synthetic off-road/racing oils - 10w-30= 478F

Rotella T Petro-base single visc - 30W - 450F

 

[smokinj]

Is the Ultra Stihl oil a true synthetic?

I just read the datasheet from Sthil for their HP Ultra oil. From what I read, it is not a true synthetic oil, but does have a pretty high flash point of 428 F. Made from petroleum distallates. Made by Omni for Stihl. I posted the flash point specs of some other oils. Funny thing is the Shell Rotella T petro-oil in 30W has a pretty high rating of 450 F. Much higher then Castrol Syntec at 392 F that is sold as synthetic and it's not.

PRODUCT NAME STIHL 2-CYCLE ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE ENGINE OIL

O M N I S P E C I A L T Y P A C K A G I N G
10399 HWY 1 • SHREVEPORT, LA 71115 • (318) 524-1100
Contact Name: Curtis Young Emergency Phone Number: (318) 347-5023
Packaged for Stihl Incorporated, 536 Viking Drive, Virginia Beach, VA 23452

COMPONENT WT.% C.A.S. No
Petroleum Distillates, Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic

All mineral oils used in this product have been severely hydrotreated and/or solvent refined. This
product does not contain any substances known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth
defects or other reproductive harm.

Flash Point (PM), °C 220, 428 degrees Fahrenheit



Group IV Synthetic oil in USA - API base stock for synthetic oils -synthetic esters, or PAO - polyalphaolefin

Amsoil Synthetic - flash point - 10w-30= 453F

Mobil 1 Synthetic - flash point - 10w-30= 446F

Valvoline Synthetic EPA highway use oils - 10w-30= 433F

Valvoline Synthetic off-road/racing oils - 10w-30= 478F

Rotella T Petro-base single visc - 30W - 450F

Do you have #'s like this for the 2-cycle oil? Stihl next level up is a full synthetic, but to rich for my blood.

 

[oldspark]

Jay how much do they charge you for the HP Ultra, I think that is the full synthetic and is what I use, I though they only charged me 3 dollars for a bottle to mix with 2.5 gallons of gas.

 

[Catspaw]

For what it's worth, I just bought a new Sthil 261. Dealer told me that if I purchased a six pack of synthetic oil at the same time as the saw then Stihl would double the warranty from one year to two.

- Rich