Pressure tank adjustment question.

[semipro]

But, again, it hesitated at 50 for a few seconds, made three light clicking sounds, with the needle jumping a little each time, before proceeding on up to 60.

Based on this alone I'd replace the $35 pressure switch.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Based on this alone I'd replace the $35 pressure switch.

Sage advice. I'll be doing that if it doesn't shut off at 60 here in a few minutes.

 

[semipro]

Sage advice. I'll be doing that if it doesn't shut off at 60 here in a few minutes.

Even if it shuts off at 60 that "chatter" would bother me a lot.

 

[peakbagger]

Usually chatter is a strong hint that the contacts on the switch are nearing end of life.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Looks like a new pressure switch is on the menu, boys!

I filled the tank to 38, adjusted the screw one full turn clockwise, turned the water back on. Shut off right at 60.

Tried one full cycle, blew right past 40. Tank was empty, shut off at 30.

Heading out to grab the switch.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I installed the new 40 60 switch. Wired the new one exactly like the old one.

Filled the tank, it shut off at 60 like it was supposed to.

I opened the ball valve to the rest of the house. Mighty whoosh.

Went upstairs to check the kitchen faucet. Tons of pressure, destroyed the faucet. It was on it's last legs, but the new pressure ripped right through the thin rotten copper (no more cheap peerless walmart faucets.)

Checked the shower. Too much pressure. All the gunk from the pipes flushed through. Mostly some rust and copper, all red.

Went back down to the switch. The needle on the gauge was buried at the top.

Turned the power off, drained the tank.

Thought the gauge was busted, but it went back down as the water drained out of the tank, the tank emptied at about 45 lbs on the gauge. Must have been lots of pressure in the system.

The switch turns on at 40 and off at 60. The pressure tank is at 38 lbs, but drains empty before the gauge hits 40.

Now I've got a mess on my hands.

This is the before picture of the wired switch. The new one is wired identically.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

And here's the after pic:

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

And even after I shut the power off, the needle keeps going up on the gauge. How is this even possible when the power to the well is off? Bad gauge?

 

[semipro]

Well, at least you know your pump has some cred.
You're wired up like this right?
The gauge reading going up after the pump is off may be because some gauges have a very small inlet hole to prevent gauge damage from sudden pressure changes (like water hammer). It may take a bit of time for the pressure to equalize across that orifice.
Also, make sure there's no clog at the pressure switch inlet. It may also be a small orifice that is easily clogged.

 

[rwhite]

Did you install a pressure relief on the tank manifold?
At least for my well the 30-50 didnt play well with low flow faucets. That last 5 psi takes forever with a 2 gpm faucet. 40-60 seemed like it was working a bit to much with a 300' well. I got it set at 35-55 and it seems to have found a happy medium.

 

[rwhite]

It appears to be wired correctly but I would plumb it different. If there's not a manifold then you should at least install another T for the switch then stub the end of the run at 4" or so. The reasoning is that the water has to go to end of the line then back up evenly to the gauge and switch. Putting a gauge or switch at the end of a run is bad for a few reasons. 1. Sediment can run directly to the orifice (everytime water hammers when you drain and refill) and 2. The end of the run will reach pressure before it backs up to the gauge. You'll have a hard time getting it set correctly. My guess is you plugged an orifice when you turned it back on.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

It appears to be wired correctly but I would plumb it different. If there's not a manifold then you should at least install another T for the switch then stub the end of the run at 4" or so. The reasoning is that the water has to go to end of the line then back up evenly to the gauge and switch. Putting a gauge or switch at the end of a run is bad for a few reasons. 1. Sediment can run directly to the orifice (everytime water hammers when you drain and refill) and 2. The end of the run will reach pressure before it backs up to the gauge. You'll have a hard time getting it set correctly. My guess is you plugged an orifice when you turned it back on.

I think you are right.

The pressure tank gets to a much higher pressure than the gauge and switch, by the time the pressure switch shuts off.

Then, it slowly equalizes back into the 1/4" outlet where the gauge and switch are, and the pressure goes to the higher pressure of the tank.

Ugh. I'm going to have to do a lot more plumbing than I wanted to do.

I appreciate your insights, I think you got to the bottom of this for me. Now I need to work out the plumbing.

 

[rwhite]

If you are replumbing a tank manifold works best. It has the ports to put a pressure relief, gauge and switch as well as keep sediment flowing. It will work without a pressure relief but then there is nothing to protect components if the switch ever sticks. The problem when you run a 1/4" stub to hook everything to is that sediment never flows through and gets trapped and churned up every cycle. Eventually it will plug the gauge and switch. This pic is the best way to plumb.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

If you are replumbing a tank manifold works best. It has the ports to put a pressure relief, gauge and switch as well as keep sediment flowing. It will work without a pressure relief but then there is nothing to protect components if the switch ever sticks. The problem when you run a 1/4" stub to hook everything to is that sediment never flows through and gets trapped and churned up every cycle. Eventually it will plug the gauge and switch. This pic is the best way to plumb.

View attachment 271497

Thanks rwhite, I think you nailed it.

I just ordered a stainless manifold assembly, which includes the tee (13"), hose bib, pressure relief valve, pressure switch, and gauge for $113, delivered free on Monday.

Also I needed a bushing to go from the 1 1/4" outlet at the bottom of the pressure tank to the 1" pipe. Stainless, $6.

I'll need to figure out the connection to the black plastic pipe from the well. It's old hard plastic.

I'm also going to replace the copper and ball valve that feeds the house, with 3/4" pex that I already have. Maybe a couple of cheap fittings. One less thing to worry about.

I figure, less than $200, to fix something that is long overdue and underbuilt, and won't rot out like the iron pipe and copper that is there.

In the meantime, we can still have water, but I'll need to manage it closely.

I really should rewire the control and switch, so that everything is grounded. I'll try to get to that in the near future.

Plus, I have to replace the kitchen faucet now because I blew it out with the high pressure.

 

[peakbagger]

Your experience is how the business model of many plumbing firms with the fancy trucks that you see on TV work. They can pretty well plan that if they get a foot in your door that plumbing systems are usually dated and there is rarely a quick fix. Once they are in the door pointing out all the problems they dont need to worry about competitive bids, they can pretty well write their own ticket under by bringing it back up to code and reliable. The home owner is usually desperate to get things working again so the contractor can sell them marked up parts and pieces that they carry on the truck of have back at the shop. In your case, I expect they would have just cut the incoming line, convinced you the pressure tank was old and prone to failure "soon" and dropped in a new tank and manifold then tied back into the lines going to the house. It would work and you would have a long term fix and big bill. If you shopped those parts on line or at Home Depot you would find a significant markup on parts and fixtures on top of a high hourly rate. And of course a week of two later your kitchen faucet would blow.

No doubt you learned a lot and what you spent is a small fraction of what you would have spend if you called the guy with the fancy truck. You also know more about the system and get the satisfaction of fixing it yourself and maybe can help someone out in the future. Sad to say there is whole generation of folks that werent brought up with the DIY background and all they can do is pick up the phone and live with the bills.

 

[rwhite]

And just for future reference, whether its heating ducts, water lines or air pressure, anytime you need volume and pressure to be balanced you should never hook anything directly to a trunk line. It should always be T'd off of it. I've seen so many instances of folks trying to figure out why one sprinkler head gets all the pressure or one room in a house gets hotter than the rest. Only to find they hooked a vent or other device directly to the end of a run.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Your experience is how the business model of many plumbing firms with the fancy trucks that you see on TV work. They can pretty well plan that if they get a foot in your door that plumbing systems are usually dated and there is rarely a quick fix. Once they are in the door pointing out all the problems they dont need to worry about competitive bids, they can pretty well write their own ticket under by bringing it back up to code and reliable. The home owner is usually desperate to get things working again so the contractor can sell them marked up parts and pieces that they carry on the truck of have back at the shop. In your case, I expect they would have just cut the incoming line, convinced you the pressure tank was old and prone to failure "soon" and dropped in a new tank and manifold then tied back into the lines going to the house. It would work and you would have a long term fix and big bill. If you shopped those parts on line or at Home Depot you would find a significant markup on parts and fixtures on top of a high hourly rate. And of course a week of two later your kitchen faucet would blow.

No doubt you learned a lot and what you spent is a small fraction of what you would have spend if you called the guy with the fancy truck. You also know more about the system and get the satisfaction of fixing it yourself and maybe can help someone out in the future. Sad to say there is whole generation of folks that werent brought up with the DIY background and all they can do is pick up the phone and live with the bills.

Thanks, PB. I agree with your every word.

With this, I will have replaced most of the plumbing in this house. The pressure tank is only a few months old, and I really should have done this manifold replumb at that time. Right after I got that done, the hot water tank blew, and was just under a year from warranty. Called the guy who installed it, and he wanted me to remove the failed tank, take it to the supply house to swap for the new one, including the warranty paperwork, plus $700 and change to hook up the new one. So, I just did the whole thing myself. The only hard thing about it was getting the new one down the steps.

Lots of folks are hurting in the covid economy, but plumbers around here are not among them.

A couple more bright spots in this story:

The assistance and moral support from my generous Hearth friends who are infinitely more knowledgeable on these things than I am. Also, I called the well pro who replaced the pump a few years ago, and he was actually really friendly and helpful.

I'll report back when I get everything done, manifold and kitchen faucet. I'm hoping by end of Tuesday next week.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

And just for future reference, whether its heating ducts, water lines or air pressure, anytime you need volume and pressure to be balanced you should never hook anything directly to a trunk line. It should always be T'd off of it. I've seen so many instances of folks trying to figure out why one sprinkler head gets all the pressure or one room in a house gets hotter than the rest. Only to find they hooked a vent or other device directly to the end of a run.

Thanks rwhite. Your guidance got me over the hump, and I really appreciate it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Just a quick interim follow up.

I took the new pressure switch off to return, and put the old one back on, as the stainless manifold comes with the exact switch.

When I had it apart, I checked the inside of the bushing where the 1/4" nipple assembly with the switch and gauge screwed into the main. It was completely shut with corrosion. I poked a hole in it and made a rusty puddle on the floor, then got a screwdriver and opened it back up to near original inside diameter. Water was still trickling, which was good, as it flushed the opening out.

Put everything back as it originally was, with teflon tape, and mopped up the mess and put a fan on it to dry. Once dry, I reconnected the wires, and turned it back on. Went up to 60, and shut off. The pressure tank was in the high 50's, where it should have been.

I believe I got it fixed. I'll just need to adjust the switch back to 30/50, and see how everyone likes thier showers.