Please Help Design (almost) Money No Object New Project. Thank You.

[Nehemiah]

Hello. We are in Southwestern Virginia, foothill of Blue Ridge mountain type rural area, elevation about 1700ft. We typically get a couple snowstorms a year, but winters are not bad. We have just laid the foundation on a 7000 sq foot new home on about 50 acres (pretty much unlimited wood supply). It is a sizable project (the following details are for you to get a better idea of the project and hope the details are interesting to you -- we will probably do a ductless Mitsubishi mini-split system for the whole house to be able to each individual area separately. As an aside, it will have a cigar lounge, a theater area, the Sub-Zero/Wolf appliance package we've picked out so far is over $87K (just for the appliances). In our main living area, we will have a built in wood stove area with a chimney -- think of it like a fireplace with an efficient wood stove. This is designed to provide pleasant heat, with aesthetic benefit, help save on energy, utilize the wood available, and also for emergency heat if needed.

My questions are: 1) I would like the absolute best wood stove/fireplace, highest performing, large size. Would Napoleon High Country 8000 be a good option? Any other recommendations on the particular stove, chimney design with consideration for ease of cleaning/maintenance, etc. Thank you for any suggestions on what you think would be the best wood fireplace for performance and aesthetics, and any tips on the chimney or overall design. 2) Would you also do a small wood stove in the master bedroom? The house will be a 1.5 story home, with one main floor, and half a floor down on either wing will be a study/cigar lounge and a storage/work area on the other wing. 3) Any other general tips, non wood stove related would be appreciated as well. Thank you for your help.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Would you also do a small wood stove in the master bedroom?

Many jurisdictions/manufacturers don't permit solid fuel devices in bedrooms. Besides, unless your BR is over 1500 feet, it'll be way too hot in there.

The NHC8000 will be pretty fire display, not a heating performer.

From the manual...


"2.3 this appliance

This appliance is a decorative product and not intended as a primary source of heat."

 

[snaple4]

Wow, big house. Congratulations on having the resources. I agree that a wood stove in the bedroom would be a bit hard to maintain comfort and keep within code. Would be amazing to sleep near though.

Are you using the residential line or Citimulti commercial line for mini splits? These things are amazing for comfort and sound. You can even get the hidden units.

Will you be trying to rely on this stove(s) for heating most of your house or just to create that cozy warm atmosphere?

 

[begreen]

Many jurisdictions/manufacturers don't permit solid fuel devices in bedrooms. Besides, unless your BR is over 1500 feet, it'll be way too hot in there.

The NHC8000 will be pretty fire display, not a heating performer.

From the manual...


"2.3 this appliance

This appliance is a decorative product and not intended as a primary source of heat."

Good point. Doesn't sound like it's for performance. If cost is no object, then the heating bill is probably not a major concern.

 

[Geoff C]

7000sq ft I would look into geothermal instead of mini splits.

 

[Nehemiah]

Many jurisdictions/manufacturers don't permit solid fuel devices in bedrooms. Besides, unless your BR is over 1500 feet, it'll be way too hot in there.

The NHC8000 will be pretty fire display, not a heating performer.

From the manual...


"2.3 this appliance

This appliance is a decorative product and not intended as a primary source of heat."

Thank you -- did not realize that very important fact. Good heat output is important, even though we'll have a HVAC system. And that helps me definitively decide against the bedroom stove.

Wow, big house. Congratulations on having the resources. I agree that a wood stove in the bedroom would be a bit hard to maintain comfort and keep within code. Would be amazing to sleep near though.

Are you using the residential line or Citimulti commercial line for mini splits? These things are amazing for comfort and sound. You can even get the hidden units.

Will you be trying to rely on this stove(s) for heating most of your house or just to create that cozy warm atmosphere?

Thank you for the good question. Did not realize there were options on the mini splits. My wife likes things not conspicuous, so may look into hidden units. Do you think the commercial line will be the way to go for a bigger house?

7000sq ft I would look into geothermal instead of mini splits.

Don't know much about geothermal. I'll ask our building science mechanical consultant.

 

[Nehemiah]

Good point. Doesn't sound like it's for performance. If cost is no object, then the heating bill is probably not a major concern.

Well, it still would be a big concern. We want to have a very nice system, but performance and aesthetics are both very important.

 

[AlbergSteve]

My wife likes things not conspicuous,

Most mini-splits are far from inconspicuous, you might even say they're a pox on most homes they're installed in, both inside and out. Geothermal is the way to go.

 

[Poindexter]

What is your expected thermal efficiency of the house? Five star energy rating, or whatever? if you got a biog glass wall somewhere, the R value of glass is gonna suck the big one no matter how many $$$ you throw at it. Besides average R value, air leaks is another variable to hash out with your builder. is there going to be an air door test?

For an air door test they basically hook up a vacuum pump to your front entry door, let it rip, and quantify how big a hole in the wall is equivalent to all the air leaks in your envelope the vac pump finds.

7000sqft is about three times the size of my current house. With a big wall of glass and a mild climate and a good air door test you might get away with one big centrally located wood stove... or not.

I don't know of any jurisdictions where you can have a wood stove in a bedroom, but you can sleep on the floor in the stove room without asking. Nice big bear rug on the floor, a little Chopin on the hi-fi, champagne, maybe some bacon wrapped scallops with a Gran Marnier reduction sauce...

 

[Nehemiah]

I'm not sure of a quantified rating, but the way it will be built it is expected to be very "tight". My wife, going against what is probably usual, doesn't like a lot of light coming in -- so not many windows, not much glass. So we think it'll be efficient. So I've concluded that the master wood stove is a no-go. Chopin, champagne, scallops, McAllan 12 yrs on the rocks, wife in a body con dress probably is a go.

Any particular fireplace insert recommendations? The largest Blaze King model? It will not be an outer wall -- any chimney design recommendations? Thank you.

 

[semipro]

I'm not sure of a quantified rating, but the way it will be built it is expected to be very "tight".

You should consider the outside air supply (aka outside air kit or OAK) for any combustion appliance if you have a very tight house (also for monster stove vent hoods). Some wood burning units are better than others when it comes to tapping outside air for combustion. IMHO a welded steel firebox is better sealed and more likely to stay that way with time when compared to a cast iron unit put together with stove cement.

For more info on a somewhat controversial subject just search here for OAK or "outside air kit".

 

[semipro]

Any other recommendations on the particular stove, chimney design with consideration for ease of cleaning/maintenance, etc.

I'd suggest using a smooth bore rigid stainless stove pipe or liner with a cleanout stub at the bottom.
Also, if you can work in a sealing chimney cap they are nice for preventing drafts and bad odors when the stove is not in use. These can be operated by a cable that extends down the flue to the hearth area.

 

[semipro]

3) Any other general tips, non wood stove related would be appreciated as well.

Designing in a firewood pass-through wood be nice.

 

[AlbergSteve]

McAllan 12 yrs on the rocks

I've just uninvited myself from your roofing party.

 

[Nehemiah]

I'd suggest using a smooth bore rigid stainless stove pipe or liner with a cleanout stub at the bottom.
Also, if you can work in a sealing chimney cap they are nice for preventing drafts and bad odors when the stove is not in use. These can be operated by a cable that extends down the flue to the hearth area.

Thank you for the good ideas.

I've just uninvited myself from your roofing party.

I'm fairly novice in Scotch (and cigars).

 

[AlbergSteve]

Drop of water, never ice.

 

[Nehemiah]

May I ask for some input on maybe a Quadrafire Pioneer III for our situation?

 

[Stinkpickle]

Another vote here for a geothermal system. As for the fireplace/woodstove ideas, if money were no object, I would definitely look into having a giant masonry heater erected along with the building. Something like this...

 

[jetsam]

I think Tulikivi Boulders are gorgeous. I'd go with that for looks. I'd go with a wood furnace tied into a ground source heat pump and a ducted system for heat. Even the best stoves like a BK King are space heaters, and 7000sf is too much area for any space heater to handle unless you are moving a lot of air in the house some other way.

 

[semipro]

May I ask for some input on maybe a Quadrafire Pioneer III for our situation?

That's a nice looking unit which I know nothing about. I do like that it has a nice looking outside air inlet.
You may want to create a new post with the stove make/model in the title and ask for feedback based on experience.

 

[xman23]

Nice idea going with a wood stove as a focal point and a heat source. If you've never had one, stoves today have a fire view better than a fire place, with no smell or mess. Your not going to heat that square footage, but better than nothing. I have, and suggest a stove with an enamel finish like my Jotul. Stoves produce a lot of concerted heat which tends to overheat the room there in. Mine is in a large great room, which helps a lot with overheating. A new house should be very well insulated and sealed, But with 7000 sq ft of air leaks. I would't think you need a outside air source to run the stove.
As to those split unit AC / heat pump units. They now have hidden units that go into walls and ceilings. It is the way to go as it allows you the heat and cool just what you need.

 

[Nehemiah]

Nice idea going with a wood stove as a focal point and a heat source. If you've never had one, stoves today have a fire view better than a fire place, with no smell or mess. Your not going to heat that square footage, but better than nothing. I have, and suggest a stove with an enamel finish like my Jotul. Stoves produce a lot of concerted heat which tends to overheat the room there in. Mine is in a large great room, which helps a lot with overheating. A new house should be very well insulated and sealed, But with 7000 sq ft of air leaks. I would't think you need a outside air source to run the stove.
As to those split unit AC / heat pump units. They now have hidden units that go into walls and ceilings. It is the way to go as it allows you the heat and cool just what you need.

Thank you. Yes, I'm not expecting this one stove to heat the whole house -- it will be centrally located, and would like it to be one source -- the main HVAC performance will be the mini-split system (may end up being central ducted and mini-split combination for certain areas). I think we would however enjoy the wood stove/insert/fireplace for the beauty of fire, savings on using the electrical system less, and the wood heat since I think we'll have a lot of wood. I'll look into the Jotul. Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Thank you. Yes, I'm not expecting this one stove to heat the whole house -- it will be centrally located, and would like it to be one source -- the main HVAC performance will be the mini-split system (may end up being central ducted and mini-split combination for certain areas). I think we would however enjoy the wood stove/insert/fireplace for the beauty of fire, savings on using the electrical system less, and the wood heat since I think we'll have a lot of wood. I'll look into the Jotul. Thanks again.

In Jotul, if you can find one, look at the F55 Carrabasset. It's larger than the F500. There are several other large stoves. Are you leaning more toward a classic look, contemporary look, or the biggest, baddest black box you can get?

 

[Nehemiah]

In Jotul, if you can find one, look at the F55 Carrabasset. It's larger than the F500. There are several other large stoves. Are you leaning more toward a classic look, contemporary look, or the biggest, baddest black box you can get?

We prefer classic. Ideally, we would like something that looks good, heats well, and is well-built. I'll look at the F55 Carrabasset. Thank you.

 

[begreen]

The Quadrafire Explorer III has been discontinued, but if you can find one, it's a great looking stove and heater. Also check out the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 and the Hearthstone Manchester.