Picked up used Englander 25 PDVE pellet stove, have some questions

[Battleman13]

Hey all!

I just bought my first pellet stove for my basement. I am a little familiar with them, as my parents purchased a Englander PDVC back in about 2007 or 2008. I used to manually start the stove, clean it (basic) and refill the hopper.

So as a new home owner myself as of the fall of 2016, I decided I needed to do something about my unheated basement and possibly help take some of the load off of the oil heat furnace. This is where I found a used PDVE. Looks a bit rough, but I think it is well worth the $200 I paid for it. It even came with a basically complete 3" vent kit including wall thimble.

The stove was sold as non operational. They claimed they used it last winter and towards the end of the season they "couldn't keep it running". Didn't give much other info. So I took the 30 min ride over with a buddy and loaded it into my pickup.

I get it home, wrestle it into the basement and left it there for a few days. I finally had a chance to look at it two days ago. From what I can see, the real reason they probably couldn't get it to stay running is a wire pulled out of the back of the igniter. I don't know if they tried to manually fire it or not. If they didn't... could be a real easy fix!

However, I've noticed some other things that may need addressing. The vac hoses (aside from not being hooked up in the proper places) are cracked towards the ends in some places. The vac hose that attaches to the nipple coming out of the exhaust tube right behind the fire box has some pretty decent cracks about an inch long. The vac hose that is supposed to attach back near the combustion blower is not attached, and instead they have the hose going from white port to black port on that same vac switch... I know that isn't right. One of the leads is disconnected from that same vac switch on the control panel side.

So my main question is.... how should the vac lines all be hooked up? I just want to be sure they are all connected in the proper places. I will inspect and might just replace all those hoses, once I know the proper connection points for both vac switches.

How many vac hoses coming out of each switch and where are they running too? I assume they come out of the "white" ports on the switch and not the black ones.

As an "extra question" I've seen reference to cutting your own gaskets out of lytherm? Does anyone have any templates? Any particular gaskets (other than like the hopper and door gaskets) that you don't do this with? Favorite sellers?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Battleman13]

Nothing?

 

[Don2222]

Hello
A cracked high temp silicone vac hose is very common on those stoves. it must be replaced with the OEM Englander Vacuum hose because of the high temperatures. Download the owner’s manual just google 25-PDVE or 25-PDV Manual , essentially the same Stove and see the wire diagram. The exhaust blower should be cleaned and the 6” round Lytherm gasket replaced. The fire door gasket 3/4” round rope gasket should also be replaced. Easy to find on the Internet.

 

[Battleman13]

Thank you for the reply. So far I haven't gotten a really "great" look at the hoses, but from what I see it is just some cracking around the very ends. I should be able to cut it off and "recrimp" the wire to the nipples. If I have a crack elsewhere in the middles of the hoses, I'll just order the OEM ones.

Are there no other high temp silicone vac hoses available? I tend to think the OEM ones from Englander would be priced a bit high?

As far as the gaskets, I figured it would probably be necessary to replace most if not all of them. Most of them are cheap enough, and the door seal kit is fairly cheap. I can probably do the whole kit and caboodle for under $100 it would seem.

Before I go to crazy with that I want to double check that both blowers work, the control panel works and that the augers are working.


I did read on here recently that Englader is no longer providing replacement E-Proms for the control panel? That's a bit of a bummer. If my control panel does need work, and it's not a triac... then I'm pretty much roped into buying a new panel. Too bad there isn't some dumps of these chips, could just program our own then.


I start cleaning it out here soon, take out the blowers and clean them real well, clean the inside of the unit well, blow out the vent pipe and give it a test spin. I might even get a bit ambitious and sand the top of it down and re paint it. It has some "hand print" shaped surface rust spots on it. Doesn't hurt anything, but isn't pretty to look at either.

I found a suitable replacement motor for the convection blower, $50 shipped... not bad. If I need one, I'm good there. Does anyone know the replacement motor for the combustion blower?

I also see in some pictures of the replacement combustion blowers, a red sorta "RTV sealant" applied to the vent pipe adapter where it mates to the blower housing. Is that just high temp RTV gasket maker? This one was sealed up using some "foil tape".

 

[Battleman13]

I have a few more questions, that I'll post first. Following the questions will be the results of me tinkering with the stove today.

1) Is it ok to cut your own gaskets out of high temp silicone? I need at least two auger bearing gaskets and will likely need both a convection and combustion gasket. Seems like it would be a lot cheaper? The two auger gaskets alone will probably cost me $20+ with shipping. I can probably cut everything I need for less than that. I wonder if the silicone gaskets would be ok in place of the "new style" bearing gaskets that actually go all the way up to the auger shaft and not just around the outside?

It's slightly less likely, but I may also replace both the door gasket and the hopper lid gasket. Does everyone just use the "rope style" gaskets for both. The hopper gaskets looks like a rope style to me, just a really thin flat one.

2) I saw a post reference some instructions to "pimp your auger motor" but the links no longer work. I ask this because I may need to replace these soon. They are likely the original auger motors in the machine, and may not work once I get everything up and running and try to run them with pellets in the feed tubes. I hope they do, but I'm preparing for the event in which they don't.

I saw mention of using some Gleason Avery A901 motors that were supposed to be much better. It was an old post, suggesting replacements could be had for about $40. Well the cheapest I could find this auger was about $80 each. Is there an affordable replacement? Should I replace them with OEM replacements?

3) Anyone have a part number for the exhaust (combustion) blower motor? I'd like to not replace the whole things if avoidable because of cost.


4) There was some "foil backed insulation" between the exhaust chamber and the feeding tube system / air intake tube. It's in pieces / shredded / really old. What can / do I replace it with. I'm assuming the foil tape is necessary. Should it be foil on both sides? If not, which way does the foil face orient?




So I spent some time with the unit today, probably about an hour and a half to two hours.

I started off by cleaning it pretty well. Hit everything I could reach with a smaller shop vac both in the front and back of the unit. Unit is missing back door so access is pretty easy. I then cleaned the hopper full of pellets out (that made this lovely beast well over 400 pounds to lift into my truck instead of just 375). Pretty dirty inside. Took a good ten min to really knock everything down and clean it.

I then disconnected the ignitor since one wire was pulled loose and disconnected the other wire left that was connected.

I pulled the one lead from the vac switch by the exhaust blower back into the control board and took the vac hose plugged into the black port and connected it to the channel on the exhaust blower where the nipple is.

Then I tried to dry fire the machine. When I first plug it in, the unit shows 1 1 on the top two read outs. When I hit ON it goes to "S U" so that's good. At first the motors seemed to be "trying" to move the augers by they weren't moving. Bottom one not at all, top one just a teeny bit intermittently (which is normal I've heard). I let the machine go for about 20 min... and it gave an E2 code which I think is normal since I didn't actually fire the stove. It shut down which is good.


So I did a voltage test and I get just about 121 V across the terminals on both auger motors so good power. Figured motors may be scrap but the machine did need cleaning so I decided to remove the motors and the augers entirely. Boy was I not "good" at doing that the first time around. I tried taking the flange bolts out first... which I thought I "had" to do because at first I didn't even realize I should be taking out the set screw. By the time I did realize it (couldn't get two of the four bolts out), the set screw was at the 90 degree position (bottom of motor) making it impossible. Later it dawned on me I could turn the machine on, apply power, and let the screw rotate back up top... but instead I position the motor enough to get the 4 bolts out and pulled it out in one piece on top.

The bottom I was able to remove the set screw, pull the motor off, then easily get the 4 bolts with my socket and ratchet and pull that all out. Both tubes were FULL of pellets. The auger bearings seem to be fine, it looks like they were greased at least within the last 2 to 3 years... they move freely and seem decent. Augers themselves seem to be in decent condition. No real "gasket" of any kind. Just this really thin type of "fibrous" material covering only the very edges. The gasket I've seen in the auger adjustment video looks a lot different... a full plate that essentially keeps the shaft positioned and not just a fibrous perimeter gasket. My stove was made middle of 04, yet the gasket seems to be a "old style" gasket.

The auger motor housing, the bearing house, the bearings, all of it pretty much is "dirty". What can I clean it with? I know later I'll need to pump that grease fitting full of nice red grease... but I'd like to clean everything up and don't want to use the wrong thing. I did swap the top and bottom augers. Still haven't got to fully put the top one back in yet (daughter was screaming from her crib) but when reinstalled the bottom auger was turning nicely (no pellets). I still need to put the top auger system back in and then test it.

I did notice that it looks like the top auger has been apart before. I say this because there were two sets of "score marks" from the set screw in the shaft of the top auger motor. Might have been done at the factory when the stove was put together, but someone might have been in here before. I know the stove was worked on at least once or twice before... and some of the repairs weren't so well done. I know this because my exhaust blower is "clamped" on at the top with a pair of vice grips. Looks like they lost a screw, and figure this was better? I will address that, but it lets me know someone was tinkering. The vac switch by the blower also has a missing screw.

The exhaust blower is LOUD / makes a lot of vibrations. Almost looks as if it's not the correct blower (or motor at least) and the housing is missing? I'd rather not spend $150+ on an exhaust blower... but I'm thinking replacing the motor is at least necessary?

The room air blower had a ton of fuzz and junk sucked up against the inside of it, the side towards the augers. I'm going to remove both and take them outside and hit them with the air compressor.

 

[BUBIBEAR]

IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO SAVE MONEY . Do not use cheap replacement parts , Also do your self a favor call England stove works .They will answer all those questions for you .It cost money to save money .

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Grease your auger bearings see pics here
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-you-apply-the-red-stuff.141830/#post-1911109

I would only use the OEM auger bearing gaskets and the OEM thick wall high temp silicone vacuum hose, they are both fairly cheap.
The new gleason avery S901R Auger Motors are the very best for your stove. S means the new Needle Bearings and R is reverse direction which your stove needs.
The exhaust blower motor takes a very hi temp white gasket 1,000 Degs for the motor hub and the Convection blower can use the flat rope gasket or the high temp silicone gasket which is better for reducing vibration noise.

Clean your augers see pics here
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-burs-pimp-my-auger-pics.102423/#post-1318807

 

[Battleman13]

IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO SAVE MONEY . Do not use cheap replacement parts , Also do your self a favor call England stove works .They will answer all those questions for you .It cost money to save money .

I'm mostly just trying to not spend unnecessary money. I wouldn't risk my own safety so I'm wanting to make sure any parts I use are of the proper quality and comparability. The stove operating safely and properly are my biggest concerns. My goal is also to not spend money I don't need to spend. For example, replacing the entire convection blower when, from what I read, replacing just the motor is enough most of the time. A $100 difference. Same with the gaskets for the blowers, if I can cut my own out of silicon (with the proper temp rating of course) then I'd rather do that. I'll have to price it all out to make sure it's worth doing myself vs just buying factory.

Hello

Grease your auger bearings see pics here
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-you-apply-the-red-stuff.141830/#post-1911109

I would only use the OEM auger bearing gaskets and the OEM thick wall high temp silicone vacuum hose, they are both fairly cheap.
The new gleason avery S901R Auger Motors are the very best for your stove. S means the new Needle Bearings and R is reverse direction which your stove needs.
The exhaust blower motor takes a very hi temp white gasket 1,000 Degs for the motor hub and the Convection blower can use the flat rope gasket or the high temp silicone gasket which is better for reducing vibration noise.

Clean your augers see pics here
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-burs-pimp-my-auger-pics.102423/#post-1318807

I plan to regularly grease the auger bearings. No excuse for me not too, since I don't have the back to my stove.

I'll check out the augers you've mentioned.

The stove itself is LOUD right now, I'm imaging that's a combination of blowers needing cleaned and gaskets needing replaced / upgraded. My convection blower has the rope on it now. I'd like it to have the silicone.. however it hasn't kicked on yet as I've never really "fired" the stove yet. Might let that be this winter. Combustion blower on the other hand, it needs work now. I'll get new gaskets for it.

 

[Battleman13]

So I'm highly considering picking up a roll of Lynn ceramic fiber paper (rated to 2300F)... a 24" x 100" x 1/8" roll can be had for about $55 shipped. I might be able to get it cheaper but once I've roughly estimated how many gaskets I can get out of that roll.... even $100 would be cheap. Since my parents have the same stove (well they have PDVC) they can also use the gaskets I'm could potentially cut. I can cut many many auger gaskets, it looks like they fit in the opening of the 6" combustion gasket. The biggest "space taker" is the other combustion gasket where it mates to the exhaust channel flange. Still way cheaper than even aftermarket prices, and WAY cheaper then englanders price.

I'm also very interested in doing the burn pot / burn plate mods... and I can piece it together "well enough" from the pictures but some of them are a bit confusing. So the main idea is to restrict the burn plate area, force air to be sucked up from underneath and directly into the "fire area" and allow the pellets to drop a bit further thus agitating the ash and causing it to go airborne and wind up in the sides of the stove (the "collection" area). I personally have no welding ability experience, buy my father is a mechanic and does have the tools and some experience. It doesn't look like a hard core fab really. I'm probably going for CladMaster's "Prototype 2" design to at least try first.

Here is my confusion:

I know what the top 3 parts are for, but I'm not quite sure what the three metal "strips" are for or where they go?


Again just plugging some holes (not 100% sure which ones yet... if they are holes in the burn pot itself or maybe holes of the face of the stove below the aguer opening? Between that, restricting the burn plate area, forcing air under the burning pellets, and helping the ash move more... that seems to be the ticket. Of course, along with making sure the stove is clean, your running good pellets, and the stove parts are all in good working order.

Does this PDV have a removable impingement plate that I can pull out the front and clean behind? DId some research, didn't find any clear cut answer.

 

[Battleman13]

A little bump to this thread....

It's getting COLD fast here in western PA and I need to get this stove going now.

I think I should order two auger bearing gaskets, the exhaust tube gasket (looks like fiberglass insulation with silver tap on top?), and possibly a door gasket.

I just at first want to verify this thing is going to run for me. So I'm trying to rationalize a minimally viable scenario in which I can test this thing without dumping money. I dont want to get too deep in the rabbit hole to find out it's going to cost an arm and a leg. If the stove runs reasonable, I have no problem going the distance with the rebuild / servicing.


The question here is... what is the point of that fiberglass insulation piece with the silver tap backing? It's part number PU-PGB52 and it's 27 dollars on the manufactuers website. Is it necessary? When I got this stove home after buying it, this was in little itty bitty particles (most of it) that were mostly lying on the bottom of the inside. I guess it is necessary or they wouldn't have put it there... but can I run the stove for an hour or two with it missing and not risk damage? I just want to do a test burn for a good 2 hours first. I have no problem replacing it if need be.

 

[Ssyko]

you could run it but it might have a lazy flame from air leaks. On the factory burn pot if you lift up the burn plate, down inside, on both sides is a 1/2” hole, they are the ones to plug.

The isulation in the back of the stove around the combustion fan housing? That should be replaced but it wont hinder a test fire. But keep an eye on it when you do, it is a heat shield

 

[Battleman13]

Thanks for the advice I'm about to test fire the stove. It's all cleaned up well enough to test, exhaust clean, aguer tubes cleared out, all vacuumed out and in place. I had to push my nearly 400 pound stove about 20 yards. I put furniture movers under it.. made it much easier.

All ready to test and I cant get the screen out of my basement window. Temporarily venting it out there for one to make sure the stove works and for two to make sure I like its location. Figured I'd wait until the morning and then try to get the screen out in the daylight. Looks like it comes out from outside.

Fingers crossed! If test burn goes well I'm going to replace most gaskets, really clean the blowers and might upgrade combustion blower to a pp7610 open chassis unit.

 

[hobby8691]

I've been intrigued by your thorough thread, since I 've owned the 25PDV for eleven years now. Always did my own maintenance, and its performed very well in our Maine climate, as added heat to our basement and to keep the upstairs warm. I'm wondering how you made out getting your stove to run?

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Bump

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Battleman13: Haven't heard how you made out with your stove, I did see you may have to replace the combustion blower. I just had to replace a combustion motor in one of my 25PDVC's, I used a Fasco A082 which may save you come cash over OEM unless you can find a source for the motor only. I only used the motor & blade assembly and put it in my existing housing, (not a bad job if you're mechanically inclined). I don't know how long it will last, but if I get the same service from it as the original, Ill be very happy.

 

[Battleman13]

So I've been on a long bit of a hiatus with this stove. Still isnt running, haven't done anything with it recently. That will change very soon. Ordering all the gaskets and seals and replacing one or both of the fans. Probably going to have about 500 in this old stove by the time I'm done.... but eh, the knowledge I'll have gained is worth something!

I'll update when I look the stove over again and decide on what parts to order

 

[Pellet rick]

Refresh my memory. What is going on?

 

[Battleman13]

Refresh my memory. What is going on?

I bought a circa 2004 Englander PDV 25 that has seen better days. It was exceptionally dirty, still full of pellets and sold as non operational when I went to pick it up. I took a buddy with me and with lifted it into the back of my truck ( I imagine this thing weighs about 400 pounds with what had to be a full bag plus of pellets in it).

They couldn't get it started they claim, looked to be a wire that came off the igniter when I first started looking. But at the very least they had the vacuum switch system set up wrong so I corrected that.

At this point, it needs a lot of TLC. A full gasket kit, probably two new auger motors, and likely a combustion fan and convection fan. The control panel "seems" operational, but I didn't really get a great chance to burn it yet... still very much in the middle of the TLC process. Cold PA winter isn't far off. I need to get the parts ordered and get to work.

I probably don't NEED the new auger motors this season, but what the hell... if I'm going to be rebuilding the stove I might as well. I do realize I'll have about $600 to $700 in this stove by the time it's all over... but that's still a discount on new for sure. Plus I'll have a lot of hands on knowledge of how to fix, maintain, and clean my stove. Then to get on to some of these burn pot mods!

Any recommendations as far as auger motors, or blower motors (combustion or convection)? I know there's a gleason avery part with needle bearings that's recommended. Also some specific replacement blower motors. I haven't tried removing my motor from the fan blade itself... probably seized on there like most suggest.


It's a well loved stove that should have a lot of life left in it once it's fixed up a bit. I figure just the piping alone covers most of what I paid for the stove.

 

[Pellet rick]

I bought a circa 2004 Englander PDV 25 that has seen better days. It was exceptionally dirty, still full of pellets and sold as non operational when I went to pick it up. I took a buddy with me and with lifted it into the back of my truck ( I imagine this thing weighs about 400 pounds with what had to be a full bag plus of pellets in it).

They couldn't get it started they claim, looked to be a wire that came off the igniter when I first started looking. But at the very least they had the vacuum switch system set up wrong so I corrected that.

At this point, it needs a lot of TLC. A full gasket kit, probably two new auger motors, and likely a combustion fan and convection fan. The control panel "seems" operational, but I didn't really get a great chance to burn it yet... still very much in the middle of the TLC process. Cold PA winter isn't far off. I need to get the parts ordered and get to work.

I probably don't NEED the new auger motors this season, but what the hell... if I'm going to be rebuilding the stove I might as well. I do realize I'll have about $600 to $700 in this stove by the time it's all over... but that's still a discount on new for sure. Plus I'll have a lot of hands on knowledge of how to fix, maintain, and clean my stove. Then to get on to some of these burn pot mods!

Any recommendations as far as auger motors, or blower motors (combustion or convection)? I know there's a gleason avery part with needle bearings that's recommended. Also some specific replacement blower motors. I haven't tried removing my motor from the fan blade itself... probably seized on there like most suggest.


It's a well loved stove that should have a lot of life left in it once it's fixed up a bit. I figure just the piping alone covers most of what I paid for the stove.

I'm also in Pa. and the winter's stink. First off I also have a PDV . I would not rush to replace the Auger motor's until you need them for sure. And when you do make sure they are the right RPM. there are some after market out there that will work but the RPM is not right . Second My stove is probably a 2013 but they are the same for the most part. Take the convection blower out and clean the squirrel cage with compressed air. People sometimes think the blower is bad when they are just dusty from pet's and what not. You would be surprised how much the dust slows the motor down and the stove needs a certain amount of air over the burn chamber or ll overheat and shut down. First hand knowledge on that one. Make sure all your vacuum hose's and switches are good . If you want to you can by-pass the vacuum switches to get it to fire but make sure you hook them back up. They are there for safety. You can do that burn pot mod you showed . I tried it and it did not work to well for me. I did my own by pluging the lower 2 holes and enlarging the center burn plate hole slightly and closing some of the perimeter holes off . It works much better and its easy to do. When you do gaskets do not forget the glass one. it is a common place for a leak. I actually also used high temp silicone around mine to seal the glass to the frame on the outside of the stove. made a huge difference . And also the combustion blower , if you go after market comes with a new fan blade . Mine did . Just replaced it last season for much cheaper than Englander . You will never get the old one off without destroying the fin's. What part of Pa. are you in. Maybe we are close.

 

[Battleman13]

@Pellet rick Thanks for the info!

I'm about an hour east of pittsburgh, but much closer to that side of the state than the philly side like you are. Agreed the winters are no fun here, and I basically live on top of a mountain now with particularly rough winters even for western PA.

Since I'm hoping to get motivated here soon and order the parts, I'll hold off on the augers. They do turn well enough, tiny bit noisy but I should be able to grease them and hopefully get at least this season out of em. I should at least be able to tell if they are going to be a problem, and since I'm starting with a bit of leadway into winter, better not to spend that money until you have to spend it!

 

[Doylee4693]

I would keep a motor on hand just in case, unless you have another source of heat.

 

[Pellet rick]

@Pellet rick Thanks for the info!

I'm about an hour east of pittsburgh, but much closer to that side of the state than the philly side like you are. Agreed the winters are no fun here, and I basically live on top of a mountain now with particularly rough winters even for western PA.

Since I'm hoping to get motivated here soon and order the parts, I'll hold off on the augers. They do turn well enough, tiny bit noisy but I should be able to grease them and hopefully get at least this season out of em. I should at least be able to tell if they are going to be a problem, and since I'm starting with a bit of leadway into winter, better not to spend that money until you have to spend it!

One thing that I forgot to mention is pellet's. The pdv and the PDVC like the 100% softwood much better than the Hardwood blend's. Plus it will burn quite a bit hotter for you. I use Easyblaze . Not sure if anyone out there stocks it or not. Hardwood pellets tend to have a huge build-up of lava and in the burn pot which snuff's out the flame and then the heat drops off . Unless you want to scrpe out the burn plate every few hours. Plus i feel it is also a waist of fuel. People on here will disagree with me on the softwood but I have tried both in the PDV and this works the best for me. Other brand stoves I cannot say.

 

[Battleman13]

I would keep a motor on hand just in case, unless you have another source of heat.

I do have oil heat, and this is primarily used to heat my basement but could serve as a critical backup (would only heat my basement pretty much) if the oil furnace went down or I ran out of oil. In two seasons of living in a home with oil heat, I've managed a break down and running out of oil twice now... I trust the gauge a bit too much. So the pellet stove is a nice, but not critical backup. Having said that, its worth the less than $100 to have a spare on hand. Makes getting the stove back up and running in the event of a failure pretty easy. If my oil heat does go down, the family and I can huddle up down in the basement for a while.... I do enjoy being warm!

 

[Battleman13]

One thing that I forgot to mention is pellet's. The pdv and the PDVC like the 100% softwood much better than the Hardwood blend's. Plus it will burn quite a bit hotter for you. I use Easyblaze . Not sure if anyone out there stocks it or not. Hardwood pellets tend to have a huge build-up of lava and in the burn pot which snuff's out the flame and then the heat drops off . Unless you want to scrpe out the burn plate every few hours. Plus i feel it is also a waist of fuel. People on here will disagree with me on the softwood but I have tried both in the PDV and this works the best for me. Other brand stoves I cannot say.

That's one thing I do intend to investigate, which types of pellets to be burning. I don't know much on that end. My parents have a PDVC unit, and they normally burn "smiths" pellets. I don't recall off hand if those are hard or soft... but I do know that it could go the better part of an entire day without really needing the burn pot emptied, either that or we tolerated it building up a lot further than it should have!