Pellet stoves-Too many options

[stoveguy2esw]

my local dealer has me doubting the reliability of the Englander brand

tell him i dont bash his product to make sales ( one should extoll the value of the good product they sell, not diminish the other as if its the lesser of two evils)

anyway, if you want to learn more about my product line drop me a PM, be happy to discuss them with you

 

[Lousyweather]

tell him i dont bash his product to make sales ( one should extoll the value of the good product they sell, not diminish the other as if its the lesser of two evils)

anyway, if you want to learn more about my product line drop me a PM, be happy to discuss them with you

always a good way to be, Mike....but to be fair, none of us are really sure what the dealer purportedly said......I agree 100% tho, you never look good dissing the competition's product.....

 

[Traildawg]

I have had add on wood furnaces for years, however due to a new job have had to relocate to a home where the wood furnace wouldn't be as feasible. My new home is a raised ranch approximately 2500 sqft. I want a pellet stove in the finished basement, as it gets colder in the basement, and I believe the electric baseboard heaters currently installed will be costly for a Wisconsin winter.

I was going to buy a 55-trpah however my local dealer has me doubting the reliability of the Englander brand. I really don't need a pretty pellet stove just one that is durable and safe for my lady friend and kids to run while I am at work.

There are soooo many brands and different options I really don't know where to start. I don't want to make a couple thousand dollar mistake so here I am, to ask the experts. I know this is not a new question for "hearth" as I have been trying to research and have found enough info to make my head hurt.

Any info will be appreciated. Thank you all, in advance.

I was having a tough time deciding myself. I decided to go with the Harman P43 although I am installing it myself at a total cost w/stove included of $2900

 

[Lousyweather]

I was having a tough time deciding myself. I decided to go with the Harman P43 although I am installing it myself at a total cost w/stove included of $2900

a wise choice!

 

[newtopellets]

always a good way to be, Mike....but to be fair, none of us are really sure what the dealer purportedly said......I agree 100% tho, you never look good dissing the competition's product.....

Oh he bashed the competition. And that is a concern to me wondering what the service would be like from this local dealer. I do not like to see business done that way.

I do appreciate Mike helping me to make an informed decision

 

[Lousyweather]

Oh he bashed the competition. And that is a concern to me wondering what the service would be like from this local dealer. I do not like to see business done that way.

I do appreciate Mike helping me to make an informed decision

so, he bashed the competition......in your opinion, did that diminish the dealers' worth, or the competitions' worth? Im guessing the former.

 

[newtopellets]

Dealer said Englander stoves are not UL approved and my insurance would drop me if I had one installed in my home. Seemed odd to me as it appears all pellet stoves are similar in there make up. Just that some have more bells and whistles.

So, as I am apt to do before major purchases I thought I would do as much research as I could to find what will be best for my families needs.

As always the amount of knowledge in this forum is a huge help.

 

[Lousyweather]

Dealer said Englander stoves are not UL approved and my insurance would drop me if I had one installed in my home. Seemed odd to me as it appears all pellet stoves are similar in there make up. Just that some have more bells and whistles.

So, as I am apt to do before major purchases I thought I would do as much research as I could to find what will be best for my families needs.

As always the amount of knowledge in this forum is a huge help.

I don't know if they are or aren't UL approved, but it would surprise me if they weren't. Cant agree though that "all pellet stoves are the same in there make up". Theres snap switches, ESP probes, underfire feed, overfire feed, etc. Its kinda like saying that all vehicles are the same.....yea, they get you from one place to another, but that's about where the similarities end. All pellet stoves produce heat, but please be careful when comparing them, because they aren't all the same.

 

[newtopellets]

Ahh, see this is the the type of info I am looking for. Please feel free to continue. I had a feeling pellet stoves weren't quite like Ford vs Chevy, thus the original making my head spin. The more I read the more confused I got.

 

[Lousyweather]

well, to be honest, Im not here to sell you a stove.....there's a lot you have to take into account when purchasing a stove, and some of that legwork will need to be done by you.....one of your concerns, other than price, will be the dealer who is selling you the unit. For every stove here, good and bad, you will have lovers and haters of that unit.....Im sure others will chime in......

 

[stoveguy2esw]

all ESW products are UL approved by the same testing agencies everyone in the industry uses.(OMNI test labs , and Warnock Hersey) the statement the dealer made about them not being approved is patently false.

FWIW i do not "sell" stoves in here i offer to chat with anyone who shows interest in my product line (usually through PM or e mail) for the record i did exchange PM's with the Op of this thread and it should be noted my units were not the only ones i suggested as a possible fit for his home in this PM. while obviously i have a bias towards my products i find it distastful that a dealer or anyone else in the industry would resort to negative persuasion. nothing really i can do about it except correct bad information when its given.

 

[EastMtn]

Very good assessment and that's where the problem lies. I believe Englander has a good product from the reading I've done (and less expensive which is always helpful). However, I have no local dealer and without seeing a product in action I have to rely on the opinions of other owners. That's why this forum is so great.

Just looking for a safe product that will heat my entire home, if possible, and not break the bank. Harman seems to meet 2 of the 3.

I hope I can get more info from Englander/Timber Ridge owners, especially the PAH.

What dealers are available to you? This is definitely a decision that necessitates persistence and careful thought. In some instances once you buy from a dealer you attach an umbilical to that dealer. Find out if you can get parts and service from other sources. Get a list of every manufacturer that has a dealer in your area. Talk to every dealer in your area. Even be willing to take a drive farther than you would normally travel. I've learned that talking to every dealer gives one a comparison of the level of customer service that's out there. Trust but verify what they are saying.

It took me 5 months to make a decision. Given the great familiarity and respect this forum has for Harman and Englander I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to go that route just because of the knowledge base available. We have 3 Travis dealers within 300 miles of us. I spoke with one of them and he was unprofessional and spent the entire 10min phone conversation, notice how short the talk was, chastising other stove makers and my custom house construction. My neighbor spoke with the second one and his price with install cost was ridiculously high. The third dealer, and the farthest distance away, had a reasonable price and welcoming attitude. The distance became irrelevant given the weight of the other two attributes.

 

[slls]

Bigger is better, you don't need to run it on high all the time. Most stoves these days have thermostats.

 

[imacman]

Local dealer sells Harman and Lennox. He is trying to sell me a P43, or Winslow country collection......

Gee, can't imagine why he'd say bad things about another brand.

Englander has THE best customer and tech service in the business. They make a solid stove.

Try the prices here:

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/55trpah--epa-certified-pellet-stove--2000552000.html)

 

[Lousyweather]

Gee, can't imagine why he'd say bad things about another brand.

Englander has THE best customer and tech service in the business. They make a solid stove.

Try the prices here:

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/55trpah--epa-certified-pellet-stove--2000552000.html)

I don't think anyone would question Mike H's commitment to his product.....Englander itself covers its own tech advice and parts, because, well, in nearly all cases, the retailer who sells the unit simply does not cover anything but the sale, and in most cases will be utterly useless in diagnosing issues, but in Englander's case, that's covered by the England tech support team. If you are at all handy, can follow directions, Englander might be the way to go.....but if you're NOT handy, well, might be another issue.

The question really is what is the BEST stove out there...and only you can determine this, based upon several criteria:
1. Availability of parts
2. Speed of getting those parts
3. The price of the unit
4. The heat output of the unit
5. The dealer itself
6. Availability of the stove
7. The looks of the stove
8. Clearance constraints
9, More stuff I likely forgot...

Everyone will put this stuff in different order depending on what's important to you. For some, it will be price. For others, it might be heat output, etc.....

 

[BrotherBart]

5. The dealer itself

You put it in the wrong place. That is number one if you are depending on them. The reason I don't.

 

[krooser]

I heat a 100 year old two story 2200 sq. ft. joint with an old St. Croix Pepin I bought used in '06 for $950.00... been bulletproof except for one ignitor. Keeps everything toasty except the back bedroom on the first floor and my back office on the second floor.

An Englander is an excellent choice... simple, reliable, ugly... never buy a stove for looks. That's like marrying a super model cause you THINK she can cook...

I'm selling my St. Croix corn/pellet burner and using my friends Englander/Summers Heat stove in my shop this winter. He used it one year and was pleased with it's performance.

I can't imagine ever buying a $3000.00 stove when less expensive options work just as well...

 

[The Village Idiot]

I heat a 100 year old two story 2200 sq. ft. joint with an old St. Croix Pepin I bought used in '06 for $950.00... been bulletproof except for one ignitor. Keeps everything toasty except the back bedroom on the first floor and my back office on the second floor.

An Englander is an excellent choice... simple, reliable, ugly... never buy a stove for looks. That's like marrying a super model cause you THINK she can cook...

I'm selling my St. Croix corn/pellet burner and using my friends Englander/Summers Heat stove in my shop this winter. He used it one year and was pleased with it's performance.

I can't imagine ever buying a $3000.00 stove when less expensive options work just as well...

I bought a stove for looks. No regrets.

 

[The Village Idiot]

all ESW products are UL approved by the same testing agencies everyone in the industry uses.(OMNI test labs , and Warnock Hersey) the statement the dealer made about them not being approved is patently false.

FWIW i do not "sell" stoves in here i offer to chat with anyone who shows interest in my product line (usually through PM or e mail) for the record i did exchange PM's with the Op of this thread and it should be noted my units were not the only ones i suggested as a possible fit for his home in this PM. while obviously i have a bias towards my products i find it distastful that a dealer or anyone else in the industry would resort to negative persuasion. nothing really i can do about it except correct bad information when its given.

Class act right there.

 

[Jacques909]

I really doubt a P43 would cut it in your house. Stove placement would be absolutely critical to have success IMO. I heat a 2400' colonial with a P38(same output as P43) and it does just fine on all but the absolute coldest nights. -5 and under and it starts to lose it. Mines in the right rear corner of the first floor blowing towards the stairs and I can maintain 72 down and 68 upstairs. My stove generally runs about 2/3-3/4 tilt under normal dead of winter temps, flat out when it's wicked cold. I think I'm VERY lucky I can get away with heating my space with a P38. (ETA- I use a 4" fan in my foyer to blow cold air back towards the stove.You may get lucky with a couple of well placed fans.) Don't know what your winter temps are like there but my guess is they're colder. Not knowing much about your house/weather, I don't think I'd consider a P43. I think a ranch design is a bit more finicky as far as convection goes.

As far as the Harman brand goes, the only issue I've had with either of my stoves was due to sand in my pellets. Other than that, they've been flawless. I think considering a P61 would be a wise move for you. Its about $400 more than a P43 and has considerably more output. For $300 on top of that, you have the P68. Prob not what you wanted to hear but...

On the other hand, if you gather enough input and think the 43 would work, I'd HIGHLY recommend looking at the 38 for $2250.Its identical minus auto ignite. Being that it's not the fire breathing dragon the 68 is, the only time yer gonna be shutting her down is for cleanings. A propane torch can get you going in well under a minute and doesn't cost $500

When I was pellet stove shopping I was considering the the p43 to heat my 1200 Sq. ft. ranch home. But doing a lot of research and looking at the prices I came to the conclusion to go with the P61. It's probably more than what i need but I rather have more than not enough and for just $400 more for the P61 it was a no brainier. Also if I remember currently the 45 and the 50 cost more than the P61.

 

[briansol]

i have a country....

wouldn't recommend it. go with the Harman if you can afford it, or the englader if you can't.

 

[Bioburner]

The P61 and P45 have the same body. The difference is the burn pots(you get two) and ability to burn grains etc in the P45. I live in corn country and if I hadn't already gotten 5 tons of pellets I would be filling the gravity box with corn at around 4 per bushel or less than 150 per ton.

 

[newtopellets]

That's like marrying a super model cause you THINK she can cook...
Great line.

Thanks for the input briansol, the country looked good in the shop and on paper but I haven't seen to many comments about it. Any special reason you don't recommend, mechanical problems? Heat output?

 

[briansol]

Mostly the design of it....
it works fairly well, but it's like buying an 80s chevy instead of a 2000's bmw. there's no features. the features that are there, suck. I've hacked mine quite a bit to get it to where it is today. If I had known then what I know now, I wouldn't have bought it.... but it was a n00b at the time and the dealer sold me on it.

still, it keeps my place warm.

but I could have gotten a accentera for the price I paid for this one.

 

[imacman]

......the statement the dealer made about them not being approved is patently false........nothing really i can do about it except correct bad information when its given.

Makes one wonder......if that dealer will just outright lie to make a sale, what else will he lie about when it comes to the stoves he sells, and the customer service down the road.