I don't understand how the steel inner is convective and the cast outer is radiant? Can you stove guys explain what they mean? I guess I always thought that both steel and cast were radiant.
PE Alderlea convection and radiant?
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All stoves have some component of convection and radiant. Even your gas furnace has a little radiant...very little. In a stove like the PE, the cast iron outside peices get heated by the radiant inner steel firebox and the hot convection air blowing across their insides. Then if you put your hand near them, you'll feel heat from them and it's radiant heat. Just like any other PE stove. The difference is in how much heat the cast iron retains vs how much the other PE stoves sheet metal outer convection shroud holds.
Thank you Warren. Is there an actual air channel or "envelope" between the steel box and the outer cast? If so, is this convective air flow passive and is it part of the secondary burn air supply sytem?Warren said:
Hi jpl,
From what I have been told, I gather that the Alderlea is a PE summit with cast iron surroundings. I am sure that the website explains (figure or picture) how the floating firebox works and what it does. The Alderlea works the same.
Thanks
Niels
PS. I got pricing on the T6 (largest Alderlea). It is $2399 in NY. From another dealer I heard the T5 (mid size) is $2000.
From what I have been told, I gather that the Alderlea is a PE summit with cast iron surroundings. I am sure that the website explains (figure or picture) how the floating firebox works and what it does. The Alderlea works the same.
Thanks
Niels
PS. I got pricing on the T6 (largest Alderlea). It is $2399 in NY. From another dealer I heard the T5 (mid size) is $2000.
The Alderlea sounds like a great idea. Double safety for the firebox and an interesting alternative construction. Unfortunately for me, the Alderlea only loads through the front, and having been introduced to top loading on the VCs I'm a convert. Top loading is now a "must have" feature for me. Maybe I'm just spoiled, or getting old....or both. Niels, I would have though that your Isle Royale with it's top loading would sold you on that feature too..... Not so?
Getting back on subject...It seems like radiant heat is often misunderstood. It helps to think of radiant heat like an electromagnetic wave..... like a radio wave - which it is. It is just a wave becoming less concentrated with distance until it runs into something. Then it can be reflected by some substances and absorbed in varying amounts by others. When absorbed, we know it as heat.
Scotty
Head doesn't rise - it radiates in all directions. Hot air rises.
Getting back on subject...It seems like radiant heat is often misunderstood. It helps to think of radiant heat like an electromagnetic wave..... like a radio wave - which it is. It is just a wave becoming less concentrated with distance until it runs into something. Then it can be reflected by some substances and absorbed in varying amounts by others. When absorbed, we know it as heat.
Scotty
Head doesn't rise - it radiates in all directions. Hot air rises.
The aldrelea appear to be a regular woodstove (firebrick + steel box) with cast iron curtains attached to it on four of six sides. There's no cast on the back or bottom. It is not a stove of cast iron construction but one with cast iron curtains. The air from the blower runs up the back and then gets blown over the top so the side air gaps look to be insignificant or non-present.
I like the aesthetics and the welded firebox vs. gakets like a typical cast iron stove. It's a hybrid for sure. A summit in her sunday's best?
I like the aesthetics and the welded firebox vs. gakets like a typical cast iron stove. It's a hybrid for sure. A summit in her sunday's best?
!
Look at the Morso 1440. and compare to a 1410. The 1410 is a pure radiant stove, the 1440 has side channels of cast iron. The channels set up convection currents to turn it into a convection stove. The Aldera goes one step further in adding a blower.
I believe blowers are needed in order to do whole house heating.
I believe blowers are needed in order to do whole house heating.
I like the looks of this new PE stove. I think it's a big improvement as far as looks go for their line of stoves.
As far as the whole convection vs radiant thingy, my opinion is that convection stoves are an overstated sales gimmick. I believe the so called convection stoves were made for closer clearances and for fireplace inserts, so you can install a blower to reduce heat loss up the chimney. Radiant stoves produce both radiant and convection naturally and if you have a good house air circulation heat will travel with either type of stove.
As far as the whole convection vs radiant thingy, my opinion is that convection stoves are an overstated sales gimmick. I believe the so called convection stoves were made for closer clearances and for fireplace inserts, so you can install a blower to reduce heat loss up the chimney. Radiant stoves produce both radiant and convection naturally and if you have a good house air circulation heat will travel with either type of stove.
I've said it before, the "shrouded" or "double walled" PE are convection heaters for sure.
I can only speak for the "classic" models as I have not seen the new alderlea in person but it seems the only difference is they have changed an enameled steel jacket for a cast iron one. The convective properties should be the same.
On the classic's: There is about a 1" air space on the sides and top between the stove body and the enameled shroud. At the back of the stove it is closer to 2" Air is drawn in this super heated air space and out the top...the slots/louvers on the top panel of the stove are not there by accident.
As for marketing BS... A 97, 000 BTU stove sitting 4" away from an ordinary wall and requiring only ember protection for the hearth is not proof enough. Oh well
I can only speak for the "classic" models as I have not seen the new alderlea in person but it seems the only difference is they have changed an enameled steel jacket for a cast iron one. The convective properties should be the same.
On the classic's: There is about a 1" air space on the sides and top between the stove body and the enameled shroud. At the back of the stove it is closer to 2" Air is drawn in this super heated air space and out the top...the slots/louvers on the top panel of the stove are not there by accident.
As for marketing BS... A 97, 000 BTU stove sitting 4" away from an ordinary wall and requiring only ember protection for the hearth is not proof enough. Oh well
Gunner said:
Gunner, I disagree with one point. "The convective properties should be the same" I believe there will be a delay in heat output and convection currents set up since the cast iron will take significantly longer to heat up. Once up to temp, I'd say it will be close or even better since the cast iron will hold more heat, thus help create more vigorous currents.
Once out, the convection will continue for a bit longer than a classic PE.
Warren said:
Warren you may be right...I should have said roughly the same :cheese:
Altho your logic implies that one is letting said stove cool down before refueling
Im am just wondering if the cast jacket will produce much more radiant heat than the steel one on the classic, PE told me the cast jacket is 1/4 inch thick..
Gunner said:Warren said:
Warren you may be right...I should have said roughly the same :cheese:
Altho your logic implies that one is letting said stove cool down before refueling
No, my logic implies that it's delayed on start and end of the burn season. Cause all stoves are only lit once and let to languish once during the burn season... right?
cll said:
I doubt that you could tell any difference between the two. You will feel most of the radiant heat from the front out the glass door.
Its actually pretty simple to calculate the air speed through the channel based on natural convection. I highly highly doubt that the natural convection through those channels is making as substantial a difference in the heat transfer of the stove as everyone thinks. Moreso, the airspace and additional wall of steel acts as a radiation shield, which accounts for a large amount of the reason why the stove can sit so close to the wall.
Maybe one day this week when I'm feeling better, I'll actually work through the natural convection in the channels, but in order for it to be sweeping heat away....well, I'm going to venture a guess that the natural convection flows through the channels simply aren't moving fast enough to have a high heat transfer coefficient. Just a hunch though.
Maybe one day this week when I'm feeling better, I'll actually work through the natural convection in the channels, but in order for it to be sweeping heat away....well, I'm going to venture a guess that the natural convection flows through the channels simply aren't moving fast enough to have a high heat transfer coefficient. Just a hunch though.
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