Part 7 of Mega-Query: Construction Quality: Materials and Thickness

[TruePatriot]

Part 7 of Mega-Query: Construction Quality: Materials and Thickness


Hi all,

The above subhead lists the topics in this section of my Mega-Query: Which Woodstove to Get? series.

Please see this link for the specifications of the house, etc…, should you need to clarify something to answer the following questions. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6812/ Thanks.


Construction Quality, Generally

Plate Thickness
Does anyone have the thickness of the plate steel used in the Quadra-fire 5700?

For example, Lopi lists the construction of the Liberty’s steel plate to be 5/16” to 3/16”. (Although that almost looks like a misprint to me—do you think they meant to say 5/16" to 3/8"? Like, after my 45 years of exposure to advertising-saturation, growing up in America, I would think you’d list the smaller to the larger—it just sounds better, to me. So, I’m wondering if someone can confirm or correct Lopi’s figures here?

The dealer I have the most respect for LOVES Country woodstoves best of all. They pointed out the handle, which actually forms part of the latch mechanism by virtue of the fact that it’s a thick rod that runs from the handle straight through the door, to latch against the inside of the stove.

I don’t have the plate thickness on the Country, however, nor on anything else but Lopi’s (suspect?) figures, above.

Does anyone else have the thickness of the plate on ANY of the rest of these stoves?

Country Canyon ST310
Lopi Liberty—5/16” to 3/16” ???
Quadra-fire 5700
Napolean 1900
P.E. Summit “Classic”


Construction Quality-- Secondary Burn Tubes/Ducts—Materials and Thickness The Country dealertold me the burn tubes in the Country Canyon are made from Stainless Steel. Is this standard in the industry?

I can say (again, no offense to Quad owners) that from my memory (I saw the stoves some weeks apart) that the gauge of the stainless steel of the Country’s burn tubes appeared noticeably thicker than those in the Quadra-fire.

Does anyone know which stoves have stainless steel burn tubes? (And I’ve never seen the gauge of metal given for the burn tubes, have you?)

Country Canyon ST310—stainless steel burn tubes
Lopi Liberty
Quadra-fire 5700
Napolean 1900
P.E. Summit “Classic”

My Initial Conclusions, Re: Quality, Etc….
Does anyone have any feelings re: the build quality of these five stoves, that I haven’t touched on here?

Does anyone have any reason to favor one of these five stoves over another, quality-wise?

If it were on looks alone, I’d take the Napolean first, then the P.E. Summit Classic. Is there another enameled, steel stove I’ve overlooked?

If I were going on perceived quality alone, I have to say I was completely impressed with the Country dealer’s expertise (20 or 30 years of a family business in woodstoves, and they rave about the Country’s quality, and seemed 100% trustworthy, if that’s possible.)

Second in perceived quality, to me, would be the Lopi, but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person.

However, if I were to base it strictly on performance, provided someone here can reassure me on the Quadra-fire’s quality, and adequate, visible, secondary burn capability, I would go with the Quad, due to its having the largest firebox, the most headroom, the rear “shotgun” air ducts for fast light off, and the step-top design.

Can the Quadra-fire be painted?

What is the life expectancy of any of these “spray-bomb” paint jobs?

How awful would it be to chemically-strip the old paint off, in the house, after a few years? LOL

See you in the "Emissions" section, next, I hope?

Thanks again,

Peter

 

[babalu87]

It sounds like you have done your research, why not just move forward?

How many more parts are there?

 

[restorer]

Peter, don't parse the stoves. Think of a highly integrated well engineered, Rockettes Show at Rockefeller Square. You check out one dancer and she may have cellulite, but put them together and they are magic. Better to go with the appreciation the owners have for their stoves and the relative trouble free operation as a better guide. Company and dealer back up are also important.

 

[jtp10181]

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they recommended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.



Just noticed your question about the paint. At our store we sell Stove Bright paint which can be ordered in almost any color. You could in theory repaint the stove. You would not want to get it too thick or it will stink for a long time. I have had to repaint a 3100 that was over-fired, and peeled a lot of the paint off. The tech at quad (who has actually done this before) told me if I clean it up good and sand it lightly the new paint job will not come off if cured properly. He said he had done it many times and never had a problem. I used "TSP Substitute" which is a very mild chemical (as the name suggests it is a substitute for Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to clean the stove up and then painted over bare metal and the old paint with stove bright metallic black (original color of the stove).

 

[BrotherBart]

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they reccomended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.

How they gonna warranty the welds beyond five years with no labor. Send you a welding rod?

 

[jtp10181]

The welds are not "serviceable". You get a new stove for free, and then must pay someone to reinstall it or switch them out yourself.
I looked up the "Country" warranty and it is very similar (lifetime and 5-year labor) except there is a lot more verbage in it. One of the things in there is that they may require you to ship them the stove at your expense!

 

[BrotherBart]

The welds are not "serviceable". You get a new stove for free, and then must pay someone to reinstall it or switch them out yourself.
I looked up the "Country" warranty and it is very similar (lifetime and 5-year labor) except there is a lot more verbage in it. One of the things in there is that they may require you to ship them the stove at your expense!

One of the reasons I bought a stove built 143 miles from my house.

 

[restorer]

The welds are not "serviceable". You get a new stove for free, and then must pay someone to reinstall it or switch them out yourself.
I looked up the "Country" warranty and it is very similar (lifetime and 5-year labor) except there is a lot more verbage in it. One of the things in there is that they may require you to ship them the stove at your expense!

One of the reasons I bought a stove built 143 miles from my house.

My stove was built six miles away. They are out of business and now in Canada. Stove still works great. Glad I didn't buy a rambler.

 

[Gunner]

Second in perceived quality, to me, would be the Lopi, but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person.

Save your fingers and go see the stoves in person,much better than asking us our biased opinions...now for mine, PE is far and away the winner in the Quality department. I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

 

[BrotherBart]

Second in perceived quality, to me, would be the Lopi, but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person.

Save your fingers and go see the stoves in person,much better than asking us our biased opinions...now for mine, PE is far and away the winner in the Quality department. I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

Hmmm... Think I will stick with four 304 stainless perforated straws. $28 apiece.

 

[Roospike]

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4" think steel
Stove top: 3/8" thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel "floating" baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

 

[Gunner]

Second in perceived quality, to me, would be the Lopi, but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person.

Save your fingers and go see the stoves in person,much better than asking us our biased opinions...now for mine, PE is far and away the winner in the Quality department. I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

Hmmm... Think I will stick with four 304 stainless perforated straws. $28 apiece.

That's $120... almost half the price of a brand new englander if you wait till they go on sale. Just get the whole stove and you will have all the spare parts you need


J/K

 

[stoveguy2esw]

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they recommended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.



Just noticed your question about the paint. At our store we sell Stove Bright paint which can be ordered in almost any color. You could in theory repaint the stove. You would not want to get it too thick or it will stink for a long time. I have had to repaint a 3100 that was over-fired, and peeled a lot of the paint off. The tech at quad (who has actually done this before) told me if I clean it up good and sand it lightly the new paint job will not come off if cured properly. He said he had done it many times and never had a problem. I used "TSP Substitute" which is a very mild chemical (as the name suggests it is a substitute for Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to clean the stove up and then painted over bare metal and the old paint with stove bright metallic black (original color of the stove).

not picking , but what does quadrafire consider to be " the lifetime of the stove"? im just curious , but "lifetime warrantys" are either "the lifetime of the stove" or "as long as you own the stove"

 

[precaud]

I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

For performance reasons, I'll take a tube-type secondary with ceramic baffle over a perforated box/baffle any day.

 

[elkimmeg]

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4" think steel
Stove top: 3/8" thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel "floating" baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

Please explain with all this quality construction the hype about EBT, why do they pollute twice as much as a stove selling 3 times cheaper, on sale 6 time cheaper? Why would one enviormently conscious pay 6 times more to pollute twice as much and to get a smaller fire box? We are quick to supply the 304 quality constructin we have also supplied the vi rtues of EBT, Then answer this simple question how can a stove that cost 3 times cheaper polute 100% less? I waiting for an answer. If all that know so much this should be an easy question.
Where is the head of PE engineering to answer this question?
The same members wanted to run Vc out of business because they did not respond to legitimate questions here well ! I'm waiting
VC did respond. PE I'm all ears for your explanation. or is there some double standard to PE.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

elk, we cheated, we have a secret weapon, my buddy bob , in the lab, he came up with the 30-nc design, he gets the credit, i wasnt kidding about this unit when i stated in another post that it should have won vesta in 06, ther simply is not a cleaner burning 3.5 on the market (least not that ive heard of) , anyone who has done stove design knows that a big firebox (3.0 and bigger) is a bear to clean up, bob did it. if this stove was a high end , dressed up unit it would have turned the woodstove world on its ear.

 

[Gunner]

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4" think steel
Stove top: 3/8" thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel "floating" baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

Please explain with all this quality construction the hype about EBT, why do they pollute twice as much as a stove selling 3 times cheaper, on sale 6 time cheaper? Why would one enviormently conscious pay 6 times more to pollute twice as much and to get a smaller fire box? We are quick to supply the 304 quality constructin we have also supplied the vi rtues of EBT, Then answer this simple question how can a stove that cost 3 times cheaper polute 100% less? I waiting for an answer. If all that know so much this should be an easy question.
Where is the head of PE engineering to answer this question?
The same members wanted to run Vc out of business because they did not respond to legitimate questions here well ! I'm waiting
VC did respond. PE I'm all ears for your explanation. or is there some double standard to PE.

Elk the is no denying it....you got the summit beat by 2GPH, what can I say.

As far as the the 20 something pages of everburn problems from multiple owners and "VC RESPONSE"...well :roll: it was quite the response.

Maybe the PE isn't as clean because it wasn't designed to GLOW RED unlike VC who seem to think this is NORMAL.

 

[jtp10181]

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they recommended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.



Just noticed your question about the paint. At our store we sell Stove Bright paint which can be ordered in almost any color. You could in theory repaint the stove. You would not want to get it too thick or it will stink for a long time. I have had to repaint a 3100 that was over-fired, and peeled a lot of the paint off. The tech at quad (who has actually done this before) told me if I clean it up good and sand it lightly the new paint job will not come off if cured properly. He said he had done it many times and never had a problem. I used "TSP Substitute" which is a very mild chemical (as the name suggests it is a substitute for Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to clean the stove up and then painted over bare metal and the old paint with stove bright metallic black (original color of the stove).

not picking , but what does quadrafire consider to be " the lifetime of the stove"? im just curious , but "lifetime warrantys" are either "the lifetime of the stove" or "as long as you own the stove"

I cant say for sure, but I do know that they never asked me if it was the original owner of the stove. One was even installed by the homeowner and they did not care. They reimbursed us for labor to replace it. They ask for the current homeowner but do not question if it is the original owner. The one thing they do have us check for is obvious signs of over firing... like if all the paint has fallen off. Or the bricks are totally desintegrated. Quite a nice warranty IMO.

 

[elkimmeg]

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4" think steel
Stove top: 3/8" thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel "floating" baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

Please explain with all this quality construction the hype about EBT, why do they pollute twice as much as a stove selling 3 times cheaper, on sale 6 time cheaper? Why would one enviormently conscious pay 6 times more to pollute twice as much and to get a smaller fire box? We are quick to supply the 304 quality constructin we have also supplied the vi rtues of EBT, Then answer this simple question how can a stove that cost 3 times cheaper polute 100% less? I waiting for an answer. If all that know so much this should be an easy question.
Where is the head of PE engineering to answer this question?
The same members wanted to run Vc out of business because they did not respond to legitimate questions here well ! I'm waiting
VC did respond. PE I'm all ears for your explanation. or is there some double standard to PE.

Elk the is no denying it....you got the summit beat by 2GPH, what can I say.

As far as the the 20 something pages of everburn problems from multiple owners and "VC RESPONSE"...well :roll: it was quite the response.

Maybe the PE isn't as clean because it wasn't designed to GLOW RED unlike VC who seem to think this is NORMAL.

 

[elkimmeg]

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4" think steel
Stove top: 3/8" thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel "floating" baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

Please explain with all this quality construction the hype about EBT, why do they pollute twice as much as a stove selling 3 times cheaper, on sale 6 time cheaper? Why would one enviormently conscious pay 6 times more to pollute twice as much and to get a smaller fire box? We are quick to supply the 304 quality constructin we have also supplied the vi rtues of EBT, Then answer this simple question how can a stove that cost 3 times cheaper polute 100% less? I waiting for an answer. If all that know so much this should be an easy question.
Where is the head of PE engineering to answer this question?
The same members wanted to run Vc out of business because they did not respond to legitimate questions here well ! I'm waiting
VC did respond. PE I'm all ears for your explanation. or is there some double standard to PE.

Elk the is no denying it....you got the summit beat by 2GPH, what can I say.

As far as the the 20 something pages of everburn problems from multiple owners and "VC RESPONSE"...well :roll: it was quite the response.

Maybe the PE isn't as clean because it wasn't designed to GLOW RED unlike VC who seem to think this is NORMAL.

Mine has never been over heated to glowing red , if you are comparing my stoves. I have gracefully bowed out of this one upmanship but you want to excalate it? why? I have admited to PE excellance more than once. I do not have problems with everburn. I also admitted that I can not support the glowing red explanation. Are you trying to bait me into more?. I did not bring in VC as an alternative, but suggested one looks af Blaze Kings. I never offered Vc as a choice or alternative in this thread . How did the everburn get in the discussion I don't own one?
I don't even own stock in CFM. VC and ever burn does not effect me, All I did was try to help those that were experiencing problems Problem I do not experiencs or share. So what's you point baiting me?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they recommended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.



Just noticed your question about the paint. At our store we sell Stove Bright paint which can be ordered in almost any color. You could in theory repaint the stove. You would not want to get it too thick or it will stink for a long time. I have had to repaint a 3100 that was over-fired, and peeled a lot of the paint off. The tech at quad (who has actually done this before) told me if I clean it up good and sand it lightly the new paint job will not come off if cured properly. He said he had done it many times and never had a problem. I used "TSP Substitute" which is a very mild chemical (as the name suggests it is a substitute for Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to clean the stove up and then painted over bare metal and the old paint with stove bright metallic black (original color of the stove).

not picking , but what does quadrafire consider to be " the lifetime of the stove"? im just curious , but "lifetime warrantys" are either "the lifetime of the stove" or "as long as you own the stove"

I cant say for sure, but I do know that they never asked me if it was the original owner of the stove. One was even installed by the homeowner and they did not care. They reimbursed us for labor to replace it. They ask for the current homeowner but do not question if it is the original owner. The one thing they do have us check for is obvious signs of over firing... like if all the paint has fallen off. Or the bricks are totally desintegrated. Quite a nice warranty IMO.

sounds like a god deal then, i was just curious, no malice intended

 

[TruePatriot]

Babalu87:

Re:

It sounds like you have done your research, why not just move forward?

I don't know what you mean by "move forward"--like--just buy one already? LOL

I am "moving forward"--and YOU guys (and gals) are part of my "moving forward" because, as you correctly note, I have done a lot of my research--as much as one can get from the companies' self-slanted marketing information, the excellent, 2000+ Q&A on this site, and from reading some of the old posts in this forum.

I thought, as "Phase II" of my research, I'd talk to some owners of these stoves, as well as "kick some tires" at stove dealers, which I am also doing at this time. And you guys are the owners I'd like to talk to as I "move forward."

Re: this:

How many more parts are there?

As I said in my first post:

Actually, this is going to be a series of ten (yup, 10) posts, about generic concerns I have about wood stoves like burn time, easy loading, build quality, flue-liner construction and insulation, etc…that I have not been able to find the answers to on the site. It is my sincere hope that my concerns will be similar to those many “newbies” have, so that you all won’t be hatin’ on me for imposing this massive post upon you.

You see, I really did try to lay out the information I thought would be helpful to those interested in sharing their experiences with a particular brand of stove, like when I linked back to the post describing the details of the installation, for example (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6812/).

Ah well, I know what they say about "the best laid plans of mice and men" an' all....
>

jtp:

Re:

All Quadrafire stoves have a lifetime warranty on the steel and welds. Here is a clip from the 5700 manual

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
The Hearth & Home Technologies limited Lifetime Warranty guarantees that the following components will work as designed
for the lifetime of the stove or Hearth & Home Technologies will repair or replace them. These items include but are not limited
to steel and cast iron components, all gas burners, gas logs, combustion chambers, heat exchanger systems, stainless steel
firebox components, plating, doors, glass damaged by thermal breakage, steel baffle supports, steel and ceramic baffles and
manifold tubes. Labor is for the first five years.

This is no joke. I called up quad and told them I had a guy with a crack in the rear manifold tube. Asked them what they recommended. He said, fill out a unit removal form and fax it in, then email me pictures. We order a new unit and put it in and get credit for the damaged one. I have done this a couple times with quadrafire and it goes very smooth.

That should tell you something about the quality if they are going to stand behind it like that.

Thank you for sharing your actual warranty experience with Quad's customers. That is reassuring.

This may seem like a dumb question, but I just wanted to be sure I understood you. Did Quad replace a whole stove when one of the manifold tubes cracked? Because I thought the tubes were "wear items" and owner-serviceable, so I would have thought they would just replace the tube, (or the whole set?) and not the whole stove? Like I said, I may have misunderstood you, but if you could clear that up for me, I'd appreciate it. And if the tubes are not owner-serviceable, that would be a something I would not like about those stoves....

I also appreciated your painting info--I had not heard of that “TSP Substitute” stuff. Would there be any benefit to cleaning up the stove with that, vs. good ol' toxic laquer thinner, and a rubdown with a "tack rag" (clean, lintless cloth sprayed with a little of the paint about to be applied)?

Good catch on the Country warranty requiring the owner to pay shipping! IF I get a Country, I will be asking the factory about that beforehand.

And thanks again--all good points.


Gunner:

Re: this:

... but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person.

Save your fingers and go see the stoves in person,much better than asking us our biased opinions...now for mine, PE is far and away the winner in the Quality department. I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

I haven't had a lot of luck finding a dlr. that even has one, let alone one that is burning.

And many of the dlrs. around here (30+ mi. north of NYC) seem to have maybe 8-20 stoves on display, some more in crates, and "they can order that for you" is what I hear, more often than not, about the models I'm actually interested in. I will keep trying, however, to see one in the flesh. Good advice.

 

[TruePatriot]

Gunner:

After I said "...... but I’ve never seen a P.E. in person...." you said:

Save your fingers and go see the stoves in person,much better than asking us our biased opinions...now for mine, PE is far and away the winner in the Quality department. I believe the burn baffle to be much more robust than tube style...304SS box vs a perferated straw, floating firebox etc, etc, yada.... yada.... yada....

Well, I haven't had a lot of luck finding a dlr. that even has one, let alone one that is burning.

And many of the dlrs. around here seem to have maybe 8-20 stoves on display, some more in crates, and "they can order that for you" is what I hear, more often than not, about the models I'm actually interested in. I will keep trying, however, to see one in the flesh. Good advice.
>.


Roo:

Re: this:

Pacific Energy

Stove body: 1/4” think steel
Stove top: 3/8” thick steel

Burn chamber: 304 Stainless steel “floating” baffle box - fully welded
Side rails: 304 Stainless steel
Flame shield: 304 Stainless steel
Air inlet: 304 stainless steel

Stove: Fully robot machine welded ( all seams )

Warranty: Lifetime Warranty ( not 3-5 year warranty )

Thank you for the info--earlier, that pdf (?) in the thumbnail you posted did open up for me, but now it won't. (And half the time the ******* "smileys" won't work on this site--am I doing something wrong here?)

So, since I can't make it big enough to read, I don't know whether or not it documents your statement that the P.E. stove top is made from 3/8" plate. I'm not questioning your word or anything like that, I just had a couple of questions about that, like:

a) can you link me to a document that verifies that 3/8" dimension and

b) Are you talking about the actual, welded-in stovetop, or the cast, enameled, decorative top that I was told is bolted to top of the "classic" (enameled) models?

The reason I ask is that 3/8" is a pretty impressive dimension, and with all the stainless that is inside the P.E.'s firebox, that 3/8" dimension would seem to be consistent with an apparent emphasis on high build-quality. For comparison, I recently looked at a 2+ year old Lopi Liberty, and it's top looked beefy but actually only measured at 1/4" (which is not too shabby, either!) but I suspect that Lopi might be calling that measurement 5/16"--their literature is a little confusing on this score, as I mention in my initial post, above.

And before some snide sniper jumps all over me and belabors the obvious with "What does it really matter--they're all good stoves--go buy one already!" no, I don't actually think it would necessarily make a difference, over the life of a properly-operated stove, whether or not it was 1/4" plate or 3/8". But, IMO, the thickness of the plate can provide some insight into the build quality of the parts you can't see, based on the parts you can lay a meauring tape on. I'm just trying to get a feel for what the companies claim to be doing, and what they actually are doing....

Thanks again,

Peter

 

[TruePatriot]

As Elk and others helpfully suggested, I'm restating some of my original questions, where they remain unanswered.

However, before I do that, I'm happy to inform you all that I have eliminated the Lopi Liberty from consideration, and not because I can find any faults in construction, either. I have a dislike of it's design, but it is based on a personal preference of mine--others probably wouldn't care a wit about my concern, and IMO, the stove is very well made. I can also say that a dear friend of mine had a smaller Lopi of the same general design as the Liberty, and it baked the kitchen of his farmhouse with heat. No doubt Lopi makes a high quality stove.

However, when I (took Gunner's advice and) saw a Lopi Liberty in person, I was struck by how shallow the firebox is. It's big, no doubt, at 3.1 cu.ft., but it's very wide and shallow. While this would obviously make for easier ash shoveling (which is good, as the Liberty does NOT come with an ashpan, at least in the pedestal model) it largely precludes N-S loading, in my opinion. I didn't write it down, but I believe that the total depth of the (flat) firebox was something like 14.5". I say the "flat" firebox because I think there was a couple more inches available, if you were to lay the butt ends of the wood up on some flange or something near the door opening.

But for me, since I don't enjoy stacking 14" pieces of wood, (they tip over easier) and I generally cut 18+" in lengths, I would have to load E-W in the Lopi. And I do subscribe to the idea that N-S loading, where possible, is desirable. So...for you impatient types...one down, four more stoves to consider.... (Quad, PE, Country and Napolean).

So, some remaining questions:

Construction Quality-- Secondary Burn Tubes/Ducts--Materials and Thickness.
The Country dealertold me the burn tubes in the Country Canyon are made from Stainless Steel. Is this standard in the industry?

I can say (again, no offense to Quad owners) that from my memory (I saw the stoves some weeks apart) that the gauge of the stainless steel of the Country’s burn tubes appeared noticeably thicker than those in the Quadra-fire.

Does anyone know which stoves (besides Country) have stainless steel burn tubes? (And I’ve never seen the gauge of metal given for the burn tubes, have you?)

Country Canyon ST310—stainless steel burn tubes
Lopi Liberty--Ignore--eliminated from consideration
Quadra-fire 5700
Napolean 1900
P.E. Summit “Classic” (No tubes--SS firebox--I know)

Does anyone else have the thickness of the plate on ANY of the rest of these stoves?

Country Canyon ST310
Lopi Liberty—5/16” to 3/16” ??? (Eliminated)
Quadra-fire 5700
Napolean 1900
P.E. Summit “Classic” 3/8" top plate?

Has anybody successfully painted a lighter color over a black, factory-painted stove like the Quad? If so:
a) How well does a single coat of a light color cover? (I understand one doesn't want multiple coats because thick paint will "outgass" for a long time), and,

b) What kind of lifespan did that paintjob have?

Now, we've heard some favorable opinions on P.E.'s quality....

Has anyone got any (experience-based) opinions on the quality and performance of the Napolean 1900?

Has any anyone got any (experience-based) opinions on the quality and performance of Country's Canyon ST310?

I've read favorable feedback from Jim on his Quad 5700--has anyone else got any (experience-based) opinions on the quality and performance of the 5700?

As always, I would LOVE to see some secondary-burn pics for these stoves, including the P.E.'s (I've seen some before--were they Roo's?--but as I'm not familiar with the insides of a P.E., I wasn't just sure what I was looking at--I wanna see the gas burning as it shoots out of the secondary ports, ya know? LOL) Insert nonworking "smiley" for simple-minded-pleasures here....

Thank you, all, for your excellent feedback and continued indulgence.

Peter