Pacific Woodstove Questions

[PaulD]

Hello!
I'm new to the forum but have been learning a lot since I've been reading here. Hopefully you folks can help me out with some answers.
Our house had two stoves in it when we moved in. A Moe All Nighter and a Pacific. I have since removed the Pacific since I had such a hard time with it. After lighting it and closing the door the fire would basically choke out and just smoke like there was no air getting into the stove. It has a small lever that I assumed opened a vent for draft although I can't see anything opening. I was considering replacing this stove with a small pellet stove but I have some Bio Bricks being delivered and thought maybe I would try to use this stove again with the bricks if I can figure out how to make it work properly. Here are a couple pics of the stove.

(broken link removed)

(broken link removed)

Inside the top where the pipe goes it looks like there is insulation inside and not a lot of room for smoke to get out. Is this normal? The only stoves I have used in the past were 'old school' like the Moe. What am I doing wrong and/or what could be wrong with this stove?
Thanks

 

[Willhound]

Hi PaulD

You are correct that the small tang under the front ash lip controls the air intake, and thus the amount of air that enters the Pacific, and therefore the burn. Yes, there should be a bafle in the top of the firebox, but in my Pacific Energy Summit, the insulation is sandwiched in between two layers of stainless baffle plate. This baffle causes the smoke and gases to travel to the front of the firebox, past the holes that you should see in the front of the baffle, thus causing secondary burn, and then up and out the stovepipe.

It almost looks like your baffle insulation is out of place, or something has shifted, perhaps causing the poor draw you are experiencing.
It would help if you could take a shot of the inside of the firebox with the door open so we could see how the baffle is sitting in there.

 

[Roospike]

Holy smoke !

That baffle dont look right at all ! The stainless steel baffle is a hollow core that air get heated up in and there is a blanket refactory baffle on top to hold in heat and sandwiched with another stainless steel plate on top of the blanket.
Its a no wonder you cant get that stove to burn correct.

Pictures:
#1 is the burn baffle in my stove from below

#2 is the burn baffle from pacific Energy Web site showing the parts

#3 is my drawing of the burn baffle
***A: The blue is the main baffle from the top looking down
***B: The red is the refactory blanket
***C: The green is the top plate that sits ontop of the secondary burn chamber baffle.

Looks like some one took off the top plate of the burn baffle.

Pull your secondary burn chamber out and lets take a look-C at it. We already know its not right so lets see whats left of the baffle or if anything else is wrong.

 

[Roospike]

Picture#3

 

[elkimmeg]

Before putting it back in service what about rolling it out side and blow it out with compressed air and shop vack it out. Fly ash has a bad habit of accumulating
blocking air passages. I also concure ther seems to be a problem with your exit exhaust setup possibly the secondary bafflet plate missed aligned or not complete

 

[Roospike]

I just checked with my PE and there is about 2" from the top of the secondary burn chamber to the top of the stove. (1 and 3/4" at the very front)

 

[Willhound]

I just checked with my PE and there is about 2" from the top of the secondary burn chamber to the top of the stove. (1 and 3/4" at the very front)

Yeah, that's just about what I remembered too. PaulD it looks like the top plate of the baffle is missing and the insulation has puffed up, coming too close to your outlet. You should be able to get a new top plate and/or even a complete baffle, and for a small investment end up with a great stove. The better of the two you've got, in my opinion.

 

[BrotherBart]

This might be an older model made before PE went to the current baffle design.

 

[CK-1]

Before putting it back in service what about rolling it out side and blow it out with compressed air and shop vack it out. Fly ash has a bad habit of accumulating
blocking air passages. I also concure ther seems to be a problem with your exit exhaust setup possibly the secondary bafflet plate missed aligned or not complete

Grinding the rust off and repainting the stove wouldn't hurt either....

 

[PaulD]

Sorry for the delay in getting back in here.
Thanks to all your help I believe I see what happened. I think someone overfired this stove to such a degree that the side supports for the baffle warped upward so much that there is now only a tiny space between it and the top of the stove. I don't know why the insulation is exposed but check out the pictures below of the carnage inside the stove.

This piece was just laying inside the stove.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Piecelayinginstove.jpg)

Front view of left support. The piece is also warped inward. Yikes!
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/straightviewleftbuckle.jpg)

Right support. Not as bad but you can see the gap above the fire brick. The baffle isn't even sitting on this support.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Rightbuckle.jpg)

Another view of the left support.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Leftbuckle.jpg)

This doesn't look like an easy fix. Are these supports removable without cutting welds? I have the equipment, but I don't think it will be fun beating those pieces straight even with torches.

Is this stove scrap now?
Paul

 

[BrotherBart]

Let's just say that no matter how much welding was done on it, nobody would ever be allowed to light a fire in it in my house.

By the time you did all of that work and purchased a new baffle assembly, it isn't sold in pieces, you would have more in it than a new stove would cost you. And still go to sleep every night wondering about that thing in your house with the fire in it.

A stove in a hell of a lot better shape than that one was pulled out last month and relegated to smoker firebox duty in my back yard. Way back in the back yard.

 

[Roospike]

The bad news:
Need to pull the secondary burn chamber and see if the top plate is gone.
The side rails are shot and unsure of the secondary burn chamber.

The good news is:

You own a Pacific Energy stove baby !
Life time warranty on the secondary burn chamber
Life time warranty on the side rails
Life time warranty on the stove body (per bad workmanship if say a weld fails ect..)
Life time warranty on the door
Life time warranty on the ash pan system
Life time warranty on the legs / pedestal
limited Life time warranty on the fire bricks ( for up to 5 years )
Life time warranty on the glass ( per workman ship )
Life time warranty on the all working parts.
limited 5 year Life time warranty on the front air inlet cover as per your first picture but it dont look warped.

The thing your going to have to over come is:
"This warranty does not apply to any part that shows evidence of misuse, abuse, improper installation, accident or lack of maintenance."

The parts are easily replaceable but how the dealer and Company are going to look at the parts per warranty is unknown until you try.

I talked to Pacific Energy direct and the life time warranty per the parts and she said in the 12+ years she has worked there she only knows a 1 claim from a secondary burn chamber and it was honored per being warped.

 

[Roospike]

See the pin in the back of the upper stove rear of the stove ( circled in red per pic )

#1Pull the pin to unlock the top burn chamber , lift up and move the burn chamber to one side and let the other side down to pull out the burn chamber. be careful with the refactory blankets on both sides of the burn chamber you will need them on both sides to fill the gap.

#2 the side rails sit in a channel per the front and back and lift right out after the secondary burn chamber is out. ( circled in blue )

#3 take pictures of the burn chamber top and bottom for us to see.

 

[Roospike]

All these stainless steel parts pictured that are warped / bent / broken ect are under warranty.

 

[BrotherBart]

The bad news:
Need to pull the secondary burn chamber and see if the top plate is gone.
The side rails are shot and unsure of the secondary burn chamber.

The good news is:

You own a Pacific Energy stove baby !
Life time warranty on the secondary burn chamber
Life time warranty on the side rails
Life time warranty on the stove body (per bad workmanship if say a weld fails ect..)
Life time warranty on the door
Life time warranty on the ash pan system
Life time warranty on the legs / pedestal
limited Life time warranty on the fire bricks ( for up to 5 years )
Life time warranty on the glass ( per workman ship )
Life time warranty on the all working parts.
limited 5 year Life time warranty on the front air inlet cover as per your first picture but it dont look warped.

And then we get to the part that says:

"This warranty does not apply to any part that shows evidence of misuse, abuse, improper installation, accident or lack of maintenance."

If they replace this stuff my wood burning brother, I will be truly amazed and be a believer for life.

 

[Roospike]

The bad news:
Need to pull the secondary burn chamber and see if the top plate is gone.
The side rails are shot and unsure of the secondary burn chamber.

The good news is:

You own a Pacific Energy stove baby !
Life time warranty on the secondary burn chamber
Life time warranty on the side rails
Life time warranty on the stove body (per bad workmanship if say a weld fails ect..)
Life time warranty on the door
Life time warranty on the ash pan system
Life time warranty on the legs / pedestal
limited Life time warranty on the fire bricks ( for up to 5 years )
Life time warranty on the glass ( per workman ship )
Life time warranty on the all working parts.
limited 5 year Life time warranty on the front air inlet cover as per your first picture but it dont look warped.

And then we get to the part that says:

"This warranty does not apply to any part that shows evidence of misuse, abuse, improper installation, accident or lack of maintenance."

If they replace this stuff my wood burning brother, I will be truly amazed and be a believer for life.

Its a tough one , thats for sure.
If i was the company (PE) i know what my answer would be ( trying to holding a straight face )
but my answer might change if the owner was also looking to buy a second stove of said company brand for the other part of his/her house as well.

 

[PaulD]

I'm going to try to remove the damaged parts tomorrow. There's a dealer not too far away so i'll also give them a call and see how cooperative they are with the warranty.

I'll let you guys know how I do trying to get those warped parts out.
Thanks again!

 

[PaulD]

Okay,
I took the stove apart. The right side rail would not budge even when persuading it with a small sledge hammer. I had to cut that one out with the torches. Otherwise everything came out easily.

All the pieces. I still don't know what the angle piece with the holes in it is. I don't even see it in the diagram on the website. It looks like I'll have to replace one piece of insulation and I'm missing the baffle gasket. All the fire brick needs to be replaced too.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Theplayers.jpg)

Top view of the flame shield. It looks to be installed correctly except for being a little crooked.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Platetopview.jpg)

The stove in all its 'glory'. If I can get things corrected I'll get rid of the rust and paint it. Maybe even get the leg kit for it.
(broken link removed to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/PaulD/Stove.jpg)

I contacted a dealer in Massachusetts about 45 minutes away from me but the guy I need to speak with won't be back until Monday.

 

[Roospike]

Nice collection of part you have there :bug:

The mystery angle piece didnt fit as the front air inlet as i had mentioned ?
(lower air inlet front )

What does the other side of the secondary burn chamber baffle look like ?

Love your Avatar of the welder under a truck held up by a few wood 4x4s , that photo has been floating around on the welding forums for years and it gets me every time it see it.

 

[elkimmeg]

LI looked at the pictures and noticed the pot rust patterns. Man has that stove been abused the rust pot patterns are a clear indication of severe overfiring
The internal pictures more of the same conclusion
Roo do you think it has been so severly overfired, it has weakend the metal structure?
got ot admit it has been abused Let's speculate How does this stove get this abused? Leaving the door open, burning construction lumber? but what if the initial overfirings warped the door, or metal where the door interfaces with? That would explain why it would contineously over fire air escaping past the gaskets. Before you get too Much $$ into it get a straight edge and start running it around that stove to see if the metal is bowed or warped . What about metal fatigue?

 

[Willhound]

According to my Summit manual, the angled piece with the holes is called a "Boost Manifold" by P.E., but the description that Roospike used is what I would call it also. It sits in the lower front part of the firebox just inside the door with the holes facing inwards. It covers the front air inlet and directs combustion air towards the base of the fire.
If you go here,
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pdf/woodmanuals/Super-SD1%20090304-20.pdf)
look for part # 13 on page 15 of the manual. Page 16 shows what it does, sort of. (Label #1, Boost Air.)

Now that I've seen the front of the stove, it looks like an older model. I had a hard time making it out, but does it say "Super 27" on that nameplate?

 

[begreen]

Love your Avatar of the welder under a truck held up by a few wood 4x4s , that photo has been floating around on the welding forums for years and it gets me every time it see it.

It would be great to see how he let the truck down. Gently or kick out the 2x4s?

 

[Roospike]

LI looked at the pictures and noticed the pot rust patterns. Man has that stove been abused the rust pot patterns are a clear indication of severe overfiring
The internal pictures more of the same conclusion
Roo do you think it has been so severly overfired, it has weakend the metal structure?
got ot admit it has been abused Let's speculate How does this stove get this abused? Leaving the door open, burning construction lumber? but what if the initial overfirings warped the door, or metal where the door interfaces with? That would explain why it would contineously over fire air escaping past the gaskets. Before you get too Much $$ into it get a straight edge and start running it around that stove to see if the metal is bowed or warped . What about metal fatigue?

Once all the items are out of the inside of the stove its a good idea as Elk had stated to check for warpage of the steel and the straight edge is a good start , check over all the welds to make sure nothing has cracked. hopefully its just the inners of the stove with issues.

That is an older model stove but is the base of the body , door are in good shape then with new bricks and rails and baffle ( baffle if needed ) you should be back in business.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Your photos tell me your stove is one of the earliest versions of today's Super 27. The square door and the brass side covers , along with the "loose" insulation blanket lying on top of the baffle box, date your stove back as far as 15-18 years. At that time, the side rails and baffle box were made of mild steel, and were covered by a 5-year warranty. My PE is of that vintage, and has seen hard use in the ensuing 15 years, but my baffle box is only slightly warped and my side rails are fine. As my granddad would put it, your stove was ridden hard and put away wet. I wouldn't expect any warranty coverage from PE.

The good news: PE has always sealed their fireboxes with full-bead welds on every seam: they can take the kind of abuse that will warp the steel and still retain their airtightness and structural integrity. If you determine that the firebox is OK, you can purchase the new stainless steel side rails and a new stainless steel baffle box for about $260.00. The new stainless baffle box has a built-in compartment for the ceramic insulating blanket, and carries a lifetime warranty. Our install foreman rescued an old Super 27 that had been tossed away after years of mill-end abuse, installed the new stainless parts, and has been heating his house with the refurbished stove for about six years now.

 

[Roospike]

Your photos tell me your stove is one of the earliest versions of today's Super 27. The square door and the brass side covers , along with the "loose" insulation blanket lying on top of the baffle box, date your stove back as far as 15-18 years. At that time, the side rails and baffle box were made of mild steel, and were covered by a 5-year warranty. My PE is of that vintage, and has seen hard use in the ensuing 15 years, but my baffle box is only slightly warped and my side rails are fine. As my granddad would put it, your stove was ridden hard and put away wet. I wouldn't expect any warranty coverage from PE.

The good news: PE has always sealed their fireboxes with full-bead welds on every seam: they can take the kind of abuse that will warp the steel and still retain their airtightness and structural integrity. If you determine that the firebox is OK, you can purchase the new stainless steel side rails and a new stainless steel baffle box for about $260.00. The new stainless baffle box has a built-in compartment for the ceramic insulating blanket, and carries a lifetime warranty. Our install foreman rescued an old Super 27 that had been tossed away after years of mill-end abuse, installed the new stainless parts, and has been heating his house with the refurbished stove for about six years now.

There we go ........Some good information from someone that knows stoves and there history.
Sounds like the PE stove design was good but over the years has been made to be better going to stainless steel and covering the top baffle blanket with a S.S. plate.
I snoop on ebay all the time and these older PE stove are about the only ones you see for sale but are still kicking.

Good input Tom , thats the stuff he needed to hear.