Okay here goes, lemme have it!

[aansorge]

I believe woody got an offer he couldn't refuse....

 

[Dan Johnson]

Bart, you like the Hearthstone over Woodstock?
I do think I need room for 20 inch logs, the Fairview is 16.
The Heritage is nice but not sure I want to spend $3K.
Can you give me an example of a modern downdraft stove?
Thanks

 

[tom dee]

I bought a woodstock Progress hybrid good lookin med/large stove i spent over a year going to shows talking with owner / mfgrs and reps listened to lootsa BS as always etc penny mike n chuck up there at woodstock are a pleasure to deal with im using selkirk stainless metalbest chimney pipe twists n bands together no screws.My 13 yr old daughter has no issues operating the progress at all . the progress is a hot stove my 1600 sq footer is hot the heat system is turned off all winter. thank god .. My wifes a heat pig my daughter and i live in bck part of house where we keep a window open to regulate the heat to about 68-72 degrees cuz we will burn up we 2 cannot take the heat..

 

[ddddddden]

I do think I need room for 20 inch logs, the Fireview is 16. . .

16" is 'recommended,' but 18" fit fine. One or two 20" will fit inside the door area, but not in the whole firebox.

The Heritage is nice but not sure I want to spend $3K. . .

If there's a decent Fireview 205 on hand for ~ $1k, that's an easy choice, IMO. Highbeam measured the capacity of his Heritage as 1.5 cu ft vs. 1.8 for the Fireview.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-big-is-your-stove-really.51736/

Can you give me an example of a modern downdraft stove?

Lopi Leyden
Harman Oakwood, TL, etc.
VC hybrids = downdraft + cat, I think.

 

[Dan Johnson]

So most /all top loaders are down drafts and not desirable for my application.
Got it. Thanks den,
Lopi Leyden
Harman Oakwood, TL, etc.
VC hybrids

 

[northwinds]

Covering your firewood isn't nearly as important as getting it split, off the ground and exposed to sun and wind. Modern epa stoves are much easier to
operate (less fiddling around) if your moisture level is under 20% on a fresh split. Oak contains great BTU's but is the ugly duckling who doesn't turn
beautiful until 2-3 years after splitting. 1 year oak would be pushing it.

Like Bart I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Woodstock. The free 6 month in-home trial is unparalleled in the industry, and they stand behind their product. I'm happy
with my Quad Isle Royale ( a top-loading tube stove that isn't downdraft), but it's probably bigger than you need and might be pushing your budget. The Heritage,
Cumberland Gap, Jotul Oslo or Firelight are other stoves that might be pleasing to the wife's eye.

 

[jharkin]

The only special requirement for catalytic stoves is that you absolutely never should burn any treated wood, painted wood, plywood, glossy colored paper or anything with chemicals. But really most of those are bad in any stove due to the mast fumes. Same dryness required as noncats.

Depending on how much wood you burn you might need to take the cumbustor out and litely brush out ash occasionally. I can get away with once a year. Some might do it twice. 5 minute job.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I always laugh when I read that someone thinks running a cat stove is finicky or difficult or complicated. It is as easy as shifting your car. Maintenance? Very little and takes only a couple minutes.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Thanks Northwinds and JH,
Most of the oak I'm cutting on my place and neighbors has oak wilt. The bark falls off less than a year after the leaves come off. It dries a bit just standing before I cut it. It gets a little punky unless I split it right away however. I have gotten ahead of it and hopefully stopped the progression with trenching.
By all the comments here it looks like I'm going to have to get a well respected stove that will run $2K or more.
That is still better than the cost of a cozy heat Z42 I was considering to replace the old ZC chimney torch. I expect to get more heat with longer burns too.

PS Northwinds, I'm near Portage.

 

[Dan Johnson]

I always laugh when I read that someone thinks running a cat stove is finicky or difficult or complicated. It is as easy as shifting your car. Maintenance? Very little and takes only a couple minutes.

What kind or area are you heating with the fireview?
Once it is going, I assume you reload through the side door right?

 

[northwinds]

Thanks Northwinds and JH,
Most of the oak I'm cutting on my place and neighbors has oak wilt. The bark falls off less than a year after the leaves come off. It dries a bit just standing before I cut it. It gets a little punky unless I split it right away however. I have gotten ahead of it and hopefully stopped the progression with trenching.
By all the comments here it looks like I'm going to have to get a well respected stove that will run $2K or more.
That is still better than the cost of a cozy heat Z42 I was considering to replace the old ZC chimney torch. I expect to get more heat with longer burns too.

PS Northwinds, I'm near Portage.

I'm just a bit south of you--near Hwy 60. My ten acres of woods is over by Roxbury, but you've got me beat with your twenty acres.

I burn a lot of "oak wilt" firewood. If you've been reading the forum for a couple of years, you know how terrible or wonderful oak can be, depending
on its moisture level. I rotate my wood over three or four years. That's probably overkill, but I handsplit my wood. I don't want to waste any
BTU's on unseasoned oak.

Top Hat seems to be a good dealer. I almost bought a stove from them twice and spent a lot of time in their showroom looking.

 

[Dan Johnson]

[quote="Top Hat seems to be a good dealer. I almost bought a stove from them twice and spent a lot of time in their showroom looking.[/quote]
Thanks northwoods.
Yeah It pains me to see the progress of the wilt. I deer hunt here too and "oversee" another 160 acres that borders my 50 for the owners who live near Chicago.
I just read the fireview vs progress thread and it sound like the new hybrid progress is kinda touchy as I suspected.
Have you ever seen either in action? What do you oohing of the fireview in Milwaukee for 1200?
Dan

PS: Started knocking the brick out to pull the ZC today. Hammer and chisel.

 

[ddddddden]

Dan,
In case you missed it, I replied to your private message.

You've said that you're heating ~ 1700 sq ft in WI, but you haven't mentioned the house's insulation/tightness. . .that makes all the difference.

It might not be big enough, but I think that Fireview in Milwaukee might be worth a try (depending on how big a deal it is for you to move 500-lb stoves around.) You'd certainly burn less wood and propane than you did with the fireplace. You'd get to try a cat stove for yourself. At the end of the season, if you need a bigger stove, it will be easier to get ~ 20% off a new stove; you're not likely to find any big discounts in Oct/Nov. You would probably be able to get most of your $ back out of the Fireview, if you sold it next Oct. . .or instead of spending that + another $1500 on a bigger stove, you could spend it on more insulation, weatherization, etc. If the Fireview still didn't do the job, the $ spent tightening up the house would not have been wasted; a tighter house lets you burn less wood, regardless of stove size.

Obviously I want to spend less time bringing wood in. . .

 

[Dan Johnson]

Den I just replied to the PM.
Thanks

 

[Dan Johnson]

Dan,
In case you missed it, I replied to your private message.

You've said that you're heating ~ 1700 sq ft in WI, but you haven't mentioned the house's insulation/tightness. . .that makes all the difference.

It's a 23 year old 1700 sq ft bi-level with 6 inch walls, new windows and good insulation.
Both levels have open areas with about 450 sq ft each. Bathrooms and bedrooms in other half of each level.
The open area upstars is living, dinning and kitchen with a cathedral ceiling. The stairs (2 sets of 7) are centered and the stove is going in the lower level across from the steps. It should and does currently get great convective movement to the upper level.
The south side of the house has an enclosed 10 foot wide deck with 4 ft windows down the entire 40 ft length. This deck /porch gets to 50 degrees on a sunny 25 degree winter day. The area under the deck is enclosed also for storage and provides a large area of trapped air to insulate the lower level along the same side. I have an insulated 2 car garage on the north side. I believe for a smaller home it is quite efficient.
Also we don't intend on never running the furnace but I am planning to burn 24/7 when below 25 or so.
I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised that I can heat the whole house with a stove.

I called the guy with the fireview in Milwaukee and it is a 205 model but one of the first ones built in 1996.
He has disassemled it, sand blasted the cast and repainted with paint from the factory.
He is willing to negotiate.
I also called Jeramy at Woodstock and he said to plan on buying a new stainless cat for $125.
I'm going to look at it and may offer a grand or less.

I'll let you guys know how this comes out and my next questions will be what I should use for pipe.
Thanks again for all the insight,
Dan

 

[tom dee]

It's a 23 year old 1700 sq ft bi-level with 6 inch walls, new windows and good insulation.
Both levels have open areas with about 450 sq ft each. Bathrooms and bedrooms in other half of each level.
The open area upstars is living, dinning and kitchen with a cathedral ceiling. The stairs (2 sets of 7) are centered and the stove is going in the lower level across from the steps. It should and does currently get great convective movement to the upper level.
The south side of the house has an enclosed 10 foot wide deck with 4 ft windows down the entire 40 ft length. This deck /porch gets to 50 degrees on a sunny 25 degree winter day. The area under the deck is enclosed also for storage and provides a large area of trapped air to insulate the lower level along the same side. I have an insulated 2 car garage on the north side. I believe for a smaller home it is quite efficient.
Also we don't intend on never running the furnace but I am planning to burn 24/7 when below 25 or so.
I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised that I can heat the whole house with a stove.

I called the guy with the fireview in Milwaukee and it is a 205 model but one of the first ones built in 1996.
He has disassemled it, sand blasted the cast and repainted with paint from the factory.
He is willing to negotiate.
I also called Jeramy at Woodstock and he said to plan on buying a new stainless cat for $125.
I'm going to look at it and may offer a grand or less.

I'll let you guys know how this comes out and my next questions will be what I should use for pipe.
Thanks again for all the insight,
Dan

selkirk metalbest of course twist together n bands no screws ..i prefer their stainless 6 id /8 od 2100 rated theyre are others who make this std to.. unless lining a exsisting chimney ..

 

[Dan Johnson]

selkirk metalbest of course twist together n bands no screws ..i prefer their stainless 6 id /8 od 2100 rated theyre are others who make this std to.. unless lining a exsisting chimney ..

Thanks Tom dee. I currently have a triple wall galvanized running up a chase about 15 feet from ceiling in basement to outlet screen on the roof.
I'm wondering what will happen to the inner pipes when I sawsall the thing at the bottom. The outer most pipe has straps holding it up to the floor joists above. Not sure if the inners are secured to the outer.
Dan

 

[ddddddden]

23 year old 1700 sq ft bi-level with:
. . .6 inch walls.
. . .good insulation.
. . .new windows.
. . .south side of the house has an enclosed 10 foot wide deck with 4 ft windows down the entire 40 ft length.
. . .insulated 2 car garage on the north side.

I believe for a smaller home it is quite efficient. . .

I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised that I can heat the whole house with a stove. . .

I see much pleasantness in your future with a Fireview heating that space.

I called the guy with the fireview in Milwaukee, and it is a 205 model but one of the first ones built in 1996.
He has disassemled it, sand blasted the cast and repainted with paint from the factory. . .

Sweet!

He is willing to negotiate. . .I'm going to look at it and may offer a grand or less. . .

I'm big on negotiating. Just keep in mind that the stove is worth every penny, if rebuilt right -- new gaskets + cement. The factory sells refurbs, now & then. . .last refurb FV sale I recall was ~ $1900 + shipping.

I also called Jeramy at Woodstock and he said to plan on buying a new stainless cat for $125. . .

Yep, and if the seller didn't put in the new stainless cat, the stove probably doesn't have the new iconel screen for the cat(necessary to keep fly ash out of the stainless cat, which has smaller holes than the old ceramic cat.)
https://store.woodstove.com/product.php?productid=16703&cat=259&page=1

. . .my next question will be what I should use for pipe.

Class A pipe?
For best bang/buck, take a look at Selkirk Supervent at Lowe's/Menard's.

I'll let you guys know how this comes out. . .

Don't forget Aansorge's finder's fee.

Thanks again for all the insight.

We like pics!

 

[aansorge]

No finders fee needed! I take pride in supplying hearth.com newbs with high quality craigslist finds. A good stove makes this hobby so much fun!

It's also nice to buy new and support some of the great stove companies out there, but a great used deal is hard to pass up.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Thanks Guys, I assume where ever I find the Selkirk class A pipe I will find the fire stop close outs and attic through stops?
The chase is about 2 ft square ply wood & 2X4 framed all the way up with 3 feet above the roof with siding to match the rest of the house.
I'm not too worried about codes per-se but would like to have someone in the business inspect it. Just for peace of mind incase I miss something and insurance purposes.
I have not checked with the agent about removing the fireplace and installing the stove.
I am an aircraft mechanic/inspector and professional pilot so I understand a little about safety and risk management.

aansorge, if I end up with the FV from CL and you ever get to Madison, I buy you one of my favorites brewed right next to the airport.

http://aleasylum.com/ambergeddon/

Great place for post flight safety briefings!
Dan

 

[aansorge]

My brother lives there...I may take you up on that someday...they make some great beer around there.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Update and a couple questions:
I bought a Fireview from a guy near by.
(broken link removed to http://madison.craigslist.org/for/4069011932.html)
Paid less than he was asking and he threw in 2 three foot and 1 one foot section of new Supervent pipe along with 2 three foot sections of stove (connector) pipe.
This one is a 2005 model and has a one year old cat and screen.
Real nice and clean inside and out. He currently has a 1998 model installed at home and was going to put this one in the basement. Bought it from a friend that was moving and couldn't take it with him.
Turns out he did the same thing I am doing, pulling out a contractor ZC fireplace and putting in a stove.
He showed me how he left the outer piece of chimney and ran the class A up the middle.

I pulled the stove today and the inner pipe from the double wall installation. I secured the outer wall (12.5) inch with some Bolts throught the framing in the ceiling before cutting the support straps loose.
I intend on doing the same thing and running the class A inside the 12.5 inch tube running up the chase.
Is looks like I will be able to use old cap and flashing when I install the new inner pipe. The old inner was 8 inch OD just like the double wall class A.

Now the questions:
This installation is going to require a pair of 45s in the stove pipe to get it to the ceiling.
The class A is supposed to stick through an inch or two before the fitting to attach the stove pipe.
I will have 9 inches clearance from the outside of the 45 at the top where it enters the class A stub and the studs for the side wall I intend to Durock and stone. I can't find any requirements for this distance in the Woodstock instructions. Is 9 inches enough? The stove pipe clearance gets greater as it goes down in the 45 so there will only be a run of 2 inches of stove pipe that close to the wall.

I would like to put a tee in at the back of the stove with a cap on the bottom for cleaning. I was told the Woodstock sells these, I can't find them onthe website. Do I need to call for pricing?

Lastly, I have an outside combustion air tube sitting there from the old ZC fireplace. The guy I bought the stove from did too. He got the outside air kit from Woodstock and hooked it up. Do you guys think it makes any difference in overall efficiency of this type of install?
Couple pics of so far.....

 

[aansorge]

Do you have double wall stove pipe? That has a clearance to combustibles of only 6 inches. Single wall needs 18 inches.

As far as the T goes buy the same exact brand as the rest of the stove pipe and just do a google search to find dealers that carry it or sell it online.

There is a debate about outside air kits but most agree it is a good thing. The idea is that pulling outside air in for combustion keeps the stove from drawing room air. Drawing room air creates a low pressure zone sucking cold air into your house from outside making the edges of your house chilly.

 

[Dan Johnson]

The Woodstock brand pipe he is giving me is single wall. I would like to use single as it should radiate heat hence the clearance discussion. I see they make 45s and 30s in the class A, maybe a piece of that through the ceiling angling towards the stove then down to the single?
The original double wall with 12.5 OD and 8 inch inside had the space between open at the top and bottom.
Now the outer pipe will terminate just above or at the Durock ceiling with a close out to the double wall Class A.
At the top I am planning the same with some cone shaped flashing to keep rain and bugs out.
So the next question, there is a fire stop square flange inside the chase where the 12.5 inch pipe goes through the upper ceiling into the attic. There is a 1/4 inch gap around the pipe and the hole in the flange, can I seal this since the Class A could be running up by itself.
The main reason I want to use the old 12 inch is hopefully keep the inner pipe warmer than it would be if it was just in an uninsulated chase. I have read where Class A doesn't draft well when mounted outside running up the side of the house. Plus I can leave all the flashing and screened cap in place where it exits the chase on top.
It has to be a little safer too.
I just need to figure out the clearance to the wall where I go into the ceiling.
Dan

 

[ddddddden]

Congrats on youre new stove, Dan!

. . .I have read where Class A doesn't draft well when mounted outside running up the side of the house. . .

There are many folks here doing just fine with class A running up the side of the house; class A is insulated.

I believe the pipe sold by Woodstock is Olympia brand. Call them to verify.

Maybe start a new thread on your chimney project. . .