Okanagan VS. Eco-Flame

[mapezzul]

First time poster, though long-time lurker, lots of great info here.

Last year I burned mostly Barefoots and some Hamer's and was happy with both; I also experienced some garbage Bayou's. This year the price of the Hamer's and the Barefoots are a bit high for my liking (Hamer's especially). The Barefoot retailer is not the best.

That is why I am thinking of going with a different brand this season. I have read great things about the Okanagan's here but will be honest and say I am not impressed with the quality of the packaging for such a high quality pellet. The bags are of a lower grade (more like Pres-To-Logs etc.) than what I am used to. This concerns me because of moisture levels in my garage (I am not going to run a dehumidifier as it would cost a fortune!).

The OKs are made from beetle killed trees and are of course soft wood. I am able to get these for $395 a pallet (not a ton) plus delivery ($290 a ton).

My real question is does anyone have any experience with the Eco-Flames from Confluence Energy? These are also beetle kill lumber and appear to be very similar to the OKs but the packaging is far superior, thicker bags and thicker pallet cover.

The Ecos are branded premium but are also touted by some as super-premium. I can have these for $240 a ton plus delivery. I have burned a bag of these and was impressed with the low ash and overall burn but I have no BTU ratings or measurable heat output- plus it has been HOT the last few days here so it is hard to judge.

Barefoots are $300 a ton and from a different retailer at which I had a bad experience (worst case I will get them there), Hamer's $325 a ton plus delivery (they are out of their minds..).

Any input would be great and thanks in advance! Looking for 3 tons minimum.

 

[Xena]

Welcome to the forum. I cannot answer your question,
but I am eagerly awaiting the fireworks of answers from member BTU. ;-)

 

[summit]

can't go wrong w/ the okies... nothing but good luck with their product... and we have sold 15+ TRUCKLOADS SO FAR THIS YR. i believe they are almost too pretty a pellet to burn ( ;-) that ones 4 U, BTU), but in all seriousness are a wonderfull product, very consistent ton to ton.. take BTU's advice and go 50/50: he is willing to take the pepsi challange w/ his pellets, and if you got any problems you can jack him up here! :coolsmirk:... they are really good.

 

[jtakeman]

Why don't you split your order 50/50 and buy half of you needs of each brand and then you can tell first hand if one is much better than the other...or simply buy 4-5 bags of each and do a test that way... That is far and away the best test in your stove that you can do and see which you prefer

BTU you think like one of us long time pellet burners. Always try to test the pellets before a large purchase and Most of use get at least 1/2 our needed supply as the hottest pellet we can afford. Use the not so hots for the shoulder season(fall and spring) Use the Higher heat pellets for the extremly cold days.

mapezzul, Welcome to the forums.

If you purchased all Eco-Flame and the heat was not as high as the others. There would be a chance of your stove not providing enough heat in the extreme days. If your looking for 3 tons I would play it save and get 2 tons of Okies and 1 ton of the Eco Flames. Best to have more heat than not enough!

just mt 2
jay

 

[mapezzul]

Thanks for the great replies!

My family has been burning pellets since the early 90's ( my dad has one of the original Breckwells and finally replaced it last winter with a Quad Mt. Vernon as well) so I have a good deal of experience with testing and variety. I have tried (thus far over the last week) Pres-to-logs, Maine, Hamer, Barefoot, Spurce Pointe, Michigan, Eco-Flame, and next up are the Okies...

I run the stove as a basic run, measure the ash, and flame etc. I just need to get me a thermometer that goes over 200!

I was just hoping to find a single pellet that puts out the most heat and has low ash etc. I don't see the point in burning a lower heat pellet during the fall/spring as my stove runs off the thermometer and cleans itself, so it is not running constant. I may be wrong in my thinking but that is how I look at it.

I may just get 2 pallets of the Ecos and 1 Pallet of the Okies or maybe two of each.... How is supply of Okies looking for the rest of the year? Trying to save some delivery money as pellets don't fit so well in my current vehicle of choice...

thanks,

-M

 

[jtakeman]

I was just hoping to find a single pellet that puts out the most heat and has low ash etc. I don't see the point in burning a lower heat pellet during the fall/spring as my stove runs off the thermometer and cleans itself, so it is not running constant. I may be wrong in my thinking but that is how I look at it.......

-M

You are probably right! The faster you bring up the room temp the faster the stove is Idle. You will most likley burn less pellets this way. Great if you can afford to spend the extra money on the Hotter pellets for your full season's stash! I really prefer to but just not in my budget this year.

But burning cheaper pellets in the shoulders is the only way I know how to try and save something. This is the only place you can skimp on pellets. Try to skimp in the cold and your likely to freeze! I don't like to be cold!

Everyone has there own way to do it. Do what works best for you.

jay

 

[wyatt9696]

i bought 5 pallets of Okanagan, sight unseen. I took the advice of a friend and from the fine folks on this forum. i've burned through about 2 bags over the last 3+weeks. though the temps have not been at all bad yet,(burned them to take the morning chill out of the house) this pellet is noticeably hotter than the hamers i burned last year. Hamers were good too. i figured I would buy them now, while i could get them from my local guy. instead of waiting til it gets cold and everyone is scrambling to get he ones they want. So far, i'm pleased i made the switch to Okanagan.

as far as the post complaining about the pallet wrapping and bag strength of the Okies, i started swearing because I couldn't get the pallet wrap off w/o breaking a sweat. No concerns here regarding their wrap. These things could have been buried in an avalanche, and would have stayed dry.

For BTU;
You're right, these babies are "purdy" (LOL)

 

[mapezzul]

i bought 5 pallets of Okanagan, sight unseen. I took the advice of a friend and from the fine folks on this forum. i've burned through about 2 bags over the last 3+weeks. though the temps have not been at all bad yet,(burned them to take the morning chill out of the house) this pellet is noticeably hotter than the hamers i burned last year. Hamers were good too. i figured I would buy them now, while i could get them from my local guy. instead of waiting til it gets cold and everyone is scrambling to get he ones they want. So far, i'm pleased i made the switch to Okanagan.

as far as the post complaining about the pallet wrapping and bag strength of the Okies, i started swearing because I couldn't get the pallet wrap off w/o breaking a sweat. No concerns here regarding their wrap. These things could have been buried in an avalanche, and would have stayed dry.

For BTU;
You're right, these babies are "purdy" (LOL)

The pallet I saw may have been "rewrapped" to make a ton, I will be sure to get them factory wrapped! I just threw the bag (I was given free!) in the stove after cleaning it and switching it over to softwood. All the windows in the house are open and AE is cranking. These pellets put out a noticeable increase in heat (unscientific holding hand up to exchanger and watching a watch to see how long it takes to be "too" hot)

I will keep an eye on the ashes and be sure there are no clinkers (I doubt there will be any)...
The pellets do look very nice.

I also burned a bag of Lignetics which were good...

We'll see how things shape up by tomorrow but it looks like I will be getting 2 pallets of the Okies and 1 ton of the Ecos...

As for pricing- I look at a good quality high BTU pellet much the same way as I argue gas vs. diesel, even when diesel costs more your still get 20% better mileage so as long as it is not 20% more you are saving money and resources.

Using that rationale, if the Okies are only 15% more and produce 15% more heat I am breaking even. I burn pellets more for an ecological reason (and I love having a direct source of heat) than just for the money; that is one reason these beetle kill pellets are interesting to me- they need to be taken care of.
All the best and thanks again everyone for the help!

-M

 

[wyatt9696]

the pallets I received were 1.3 ton I believe. Anyway, good luck with your MT Vernon AE. I got mine last january and love it. I was a conventional wood stove guy until we moved and no more access to free wood. pellets are so much easier to deal with. good luck this winter. you folks up in the danbury area get any snow yet???(LOL) i'm down in WallyWorld. not too bad here yet. couple of chilly nights(not condusive to growing my fig trees) but still pretty mild. Take care.

 

[Stentor]

I'm very happy with the Okanagans and am sticking with them.

But you should be aware of Rocky Mountain softwood pellets from Colorado, using the beetle-killed lodge pole pine. They are probably comparable to Eco-flame, judging by their marketing stats on ash, BTU, etc. I don't know about price or availability in your area. They are priced about the same as Okanagans at the dealer I bought from in New Hampshire.

 

[ineclipse]

Using that rationale, if the Okies are only 15% more and produce 15% more heat I am breaking even. I burn pellets more for an ecological reason (and I love having a direct source of heat) than just for the money; that is one reason these beetle kill pellets are interesting to me- they need to be taken care of.
All the best and thanks again everyone for the help!

Hi mapezzul (and BTU),
Like you, I choose pellets primarily for ecological reasons (and the 'ease-of-use' has turned out to be a nice plus too!) Obviously the Okies get a helluva lot of praise (not to mention outright promotion... ahem, cough cough ...hehe...) here on the forum, for their relatively high heat output. But, ecologically speaking, I'm curious as to your take on whether the extra heat you might get out of the Okies, which reduces the amount you have to burn, as well as any possible ecological benefit from using beetle kill, does or does not fully mitigate the additional petroleum resources required to transport them what must be at least a couple thousand more miles than most of the other pellets available to us here in the northeast.

I'll be using Clean Energy pellets this winter, and so far they are definitely in the top two or three pellets I've tried as far as fines and ash are concerned, and the heat seemed pretty good too, though hard to compare as it really hasn't been cold out. (Unfortunately, I have a hard time just putting my hand in front of the stove to tell which pellet is hotter than another.) And these are labeled on the bag as "certified sustainably harvested Appalachian hardwood" ...though I suppose that could meaning many things.

Also, can you really say that the Okies produce "15%" more heat than the next pellet? Esp. when your alternate pellet - the Ecos, are reputed to have good heat as well? And not sure where the Ecos come from....?

Cheers!

 

[mapezzul]

Using that rationale, if the Okies are only 15% more and produce 15% more heat I am breaking even. I burn pellets more for an ecological reason (and I love having a direct source of heat) than just for the money; that is one reason these beetle kill pellets are interesting to me- they need to be taken care of.
All the best and thanks again everyone for the help!

Hi mapezzul (and BTU),
Like you, I choose pellets primarily for ecological reasons (and the 'ease-of-use' has turned out to be a nice plus too!) Obviously the Okies get a helluva lot of praise (not to mention outright promotion... ahem, cough cough ...hehe...) here on the forum, for their relatively high heat output. But, ecologically speaking, I'm curious as to your take on whether the extra heat you might get out of the Okies, which reduces the amount you have to burn, as well as any possible ecological benefit from using beetle kill, does or does not fully mitigate the additional petroleum resources required to transport them what must be at least a couple thousand more miles than most of the other pellets available to us here in the northeast.

I'll be using Clean Energy pellets this winter, and so far they are definitely in the top two or three pellets I've tried as far as fines and ash are concerned, and the heat seemed pretty good too, though hard to compare as it really hasn't been cold out. (Unfortunately, I have a hard time just putting my hand in front of the stove to tell which pellet is hotter than another.) And these are labeled on the bag as "certified sustainably harvested Appalachian hardwood" ...though I suppose that could meaning many things.

Also, can you really say that the Okies produce "15%" more heat than the next pellet? Esp. when your alternate pellet - the Ecos, are reputed to have good heat as well? And not sure where the Ecos come from....?

Cheers!

Ineclipse- You make a great point about the transportation of these pellets from the West-East. Since both companies are using rail to transport they really are helping their cause. Trains have become so much more efficient (in terms of freight and emissions) that their trip East is can actuality be more efficient than some of the East Coast pellets being trucked. I believe the ECOs even claim to be carbon neutral so it is all a crap shoot... I intend to get a high temp thermometer and test these brands throughout the winter to see if there really is a 15% improvement and if it all is justified.

I tried corn last year from a local producer to go really green and the ash/clinkers and lack of heat negated all of the positives about being local. I will not be going that route again unless there are no pellets.

Either way I look at it I am saving a lot of oil (last winter we used 50 gallons total for hotwater) and to me that is the most important thing. I also compost my waste (naturemill) to offset my carbon footprint thanks to my cars; I could be greener but I do a lot more than most and my footprint is shrinking a lot. I think if everyone did at least a little bit we would be much better off.


-M

 

[mapezzul]

Well, taking everyones advice and BTU's "Pepsi Challenge" we are getting 2 pallets of Okies (2.6 ton) and 2 pallets (2 tons) of Eco-Flames. Ordered them today, Ecos were "cheap" at $240 a ton so they will offset the higher priced Okies ($290). We should be all set for this winter and I will update this thread with ash and temp output comparison as it gets a bit colder. I am going to start and finish the season with the Ecos and use the Okies mid season for the cold days and just keep the stove on "auto" and see what the outcome is.

The Okies blew me away with pellet quality, low ash, and heat output. Truly an amazing bag of pellets and hopefully they are all like it! The Mt. V seems to like them and I actually had to turn the flame height down-1 to get the flame at the normal level for the setting.

This will be the first year going all softwood and it should be interesting!


all the best,

-M

 

[Stentor]

I agree with both Mapazzul and Ineclipse.

I'm using pellets for a number of reasons and they all play together. I use less fossil fuel, which is good for the environment and for the country's increased energy independence. Over time, I'll spend less money and get a return on my investment. I have a more diverse energy supply, so I have a little more flexibility. And I get enjoyment out of the pellet stove in the room where we've placed it.

The Okanagan pellets really are excellent, although there are a few other brands that are comparable, like Rocky Mountain. Buying a very similar product made in Massachusetts with equal environmental and economic impact would be nice, but I don't think of a Canadian product as all that foreign. (Yes. they are politically independent but their economy and society are so integrated with ours that the differences are not all that great.) Rail transportation and then trucking does take some energy but there is a net benefit over other forms of energy.

I have not taken extreme measures to reduce my carbon imprint but I've taken some and over time probably more. For now, stuffy though it sounds, I think of Aristotle's idea that "the best is the enemy of the good." and figure I'm doing a lot better than a few years ago.

 

[CanadaClinker]

Mapezzul.....here's a suggestion on a thermometer for testing.... I purchases for $30 a 'remote' turkey/cookng thermometer. It has a probe you can stick in the bird (or in the output of the heat exchanger tube of your stove, out of sight) along with the oven approved heat shield cord which runs about 3 ft to the sending unit. I have my 'sending' unit mounted permanently down on the cold floor inside the stove at the rear of the side cover. The 'receiver' unit is next to my lazyboy chair so that I can sit back and glance at any time to see what the temp is. I can watch the stove start up and see how long it takes to reach peak temp. Oh, it has a built in 'count up' timer which I start when the stove starts up. It had a alarm beeper in it which told you when you were approaching the set temp. but after a week, I snipped the wires to the speaker as it was starting to get on my nerves..... :grrr: ... bet there are some other good thermometer ideas out there for you too..... have fun setting up one! :lol: .... and let us know your pellet testing results.....

 

[jtakeman]

This will be the first year going all softwood and it should be interesting!......

The softies will provide some surprising results! If you ever get a chance try some Douglas Fur pellets. I happend upon them at Agway and I will never think the same about hardwoods as I used to.

Please keep us posted on the overall performance of both pellets.

Take care and stay warm!
jay