Nothing to screw chimney straps to, going up the outside of my house!

[castlegates]

Hello!

I started instlaling a Duravent chimney system for my DS machine stove. I started sinking screws only to find they all stripped into the interior drywall (I kept getting longer and longer screws looking to hit that wood board)! Re-inspecting the hole I cut for the thimble reveals my cheap house has absolutely no wood between the studs!

Basically it's made (outside in) aluminum siding, that pink slab insulation, fiberglass insulation, then drywall framed by studs.
I've never seen this before (all the other houses I've had they used wood between studs).

Any ideas how you screw in a 24 foot chimney up the side of a house where the screws have NOTHING to grab on to?


Also, I just realized I installed my thimble around 5" pipe to cieling, so that's another pain I'll have to rotate my siding and lower the hole, I suppose (unless anyone else has any ideas). I'll likely lower the hole 'cause I'm going above code for all parts; this chimney support thing was a surprise (the high thimble hole was just senility/stupidity my wife will love to rake me over the coals unless I can fix it and hide it fast enough!

THanks so much!

 

[Larry in OK]

Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of would be to locate the studs from the outside and attach some thing to anchor the chimney supports to spanning at least 2 studs then either paint to match or cover with the same siding material.

 

[castlegates]

Maybe PA has no/poor builing codes? The guys at the hardware store said their houses had no wood, either!

I was afraid of that answer (thanks)!

I was also thinking of building a lower support to the Tee/cleanout with treated wood sunk into cement into the ground and use the largest wall hanging expandable screw type anchors to hold it straight, using a final anchor on the roof (where I know there's wood).

So basically if I decide to support between studs, how do I find the studs on other floors without pecking holes though the siding? From the inside I could look for drywall nails or use one of those studfinders but the outside with metal siding....UGH! ;-)

 

[begreen]

Idea one - change plan and go up straight in the house. Idea two - if outside, bolt a 2 x 4 brace across the two adjacent studs and bolt the support to that.

 

[castlegates]

I already bought the through the wall kit and started (plus our house is small, 2 kids and one on the way; we can't even afford to lose 1" of space anywhere inside).

Thanks so much everyone; I really appreciate it!

Soon I'll be able to submit a review of my DS machine Amish coal/wood stove energymax 110 with water heater!

 

[castlegates]

Since I made the hole too high (a little too close to the ceiling), I think I'll:

1. Remove the drywall in the basement where the hole is and replace it with heat resistant drywall, shoring up the stud I cut while making the hole so I can use that for support).

1. Rotate the siding down on the side of the house to lower the hole I cut.

2. Since I did go through the stud on the right 1/3 of the hole, use that line (that hopefully extends to the upstairs stud) to attach pressure treated wood with 2 screws (to prevent rotation), then screw the bracket to the wood (also adding a couple wall expanding screws on the ends of the piece of wood to further prevent rotation, adding extra support.

Does this sound reasonable? I think I'm more likely to hit wood between floors and in the attic (If I measure things well and can hit one on the seam of the pipe). Each time I install a bracket, I should peel back the siding and feel for a stud to attach my wood.

If anyone has any other ideas, let me know! Thanks so much fo rthe suggestions; I was like a deer in the headlights when I saw my house had no plywood!


Good part is I have 4' of cinder block behind the stove and a cement floor. That'll make things easier (I plan on installing a stone cement hearth)

 

[rwhite]

I would take some plate steel or aluminum (1/8" maybe) and span 2 studs on the outside of the house the attach brackets to that. With flat metal you should be able to paint it to match the siding and it be fairly inconspicous.

 

[begreen]

Since I made the hole too high (a little too close to the ceiling), I think I'll:

1. Remove the drywall in the basement where the hole is and replace it with heat resistant drywall, shoring up the stud I cut while making the hole so I can use that for support).

1. Rotate the siding down on the side of the house to lower the hole I cut.

2. Since I did go through the stud on the right 1/3 of the hole, use that line (that hopefully extends to the upstairs stud) to attach pressure treated wood with 2 screws (to prevent rotation), then screw the bracket to the wood (also adding a couple wall expanding screws on the ends of the piece of wood to further prevent rotation, adding extra support.

Does this sound reasonable? I think I'm more likely to hit wood between floors and in the attic (If I measure things well and can hit one on the seam of the pipe). Each time I install a bracket, I should peel back the siding and feel for a stud to attach my wood.

If anyone has any other ideas, let me know! Thanks so much fo rthe suggestions; I was like a deer in the headlights when I saw my house had no plywood!


Good part is I have 4' of cinder block behind the stove and a cement floor. That'll make things easier (I plan on installing a stone cement hearth)

On the interior, what will be the connector pipe? Single or Double wall? That will determine the clearances from the ceiling. If single it must be at least 18" if double it must be at least 8". Also, how high is the ceiling in this room? Most stoves require a minimum of 84".

 

[SteveKG]

bolt a 2 x 4 brace across the two adjacent studs and bolt the support to that.

This is exactly what I was thinking and what I'd do. Quick, simple, and effective.

 

[northernontario]

2x4 Across the studs... thats what I had to do. Took several pilot holes to find the darn stud... then a long piece of 2x4 screwed into two studs overtop of the aluminium siding... then fastened the bracket to that.

 

[castlegates]

I checked my clearances again (I must have been tired working nights without sleep the previous day); I've got 8" to the dropped cieling from the top of the pipe leading into the thimble and I'm using double pipe for the top half of my exit pipe. I'm angling down soon as I get out of the thimble (with proper clearances) to keep the pipe away from the cieling area altogether.

The basement has those 4'x2' (or so) tiles; I plan to remove the "dropped" part that's directly over the stove, anyway (which will add 3 inches or so) and install some sort of resistant rock wall up there; so all will be well in the clearance and safety world ) I was just thinking today; I wonder about that space cinder material you can heat to 2100 degrees and pick up while the other end is under a blow torch (super heat dissapating properties). I wonder about the conduction of different materials (just for brain excercise, not that UL cares).

My basement cieling is high enough so I'm OK there.

I do have a side wall 2 feet from where I cut out my carpet for the hearth I later will be removing to reconfigure my rooms anyway... My basement has a cement floor; cinderblock lines the exterior wall to around 3 1/2-4' high (I can't recall exactly) basically the cinder block is as high as my stove minus 2-3 inches. (It's one of those where you've got a ledge all the way around to cover up the difference between cinder blocks and studs/drywall)-they boxed that in with that prefab sheet board printed to look like plywood strips from the '80's so wiht a pine shelf surrounding the basement. Taking that out from behind the stove exposed cinder block (with drywall set back 3 inches above) My clearance for that exposed 2-3 inches of stove height is 2 feet drywall to stove (it's just 2-3" but I don't need a fire upstairs; just downstairs in the stove)!

Chimney-I was thinking also of vertical wood brace that would be better hidden, but finding wood vertically paging through each siding layer to find wood would be a pain (and this job is already a pain)!

I like the idea of using a metal brace between studs and bolting to that (when I'm all done humming and hawing this & that, I think I'll take that suggestion) then painting the metal strip to match close as I can. All I'd need is an inch wide with enough strength and I'd be set, screwing into the studs like a ladder. I plan to put 5 brackets just under every 4 1/2 feet.

I'm not fond of punching holes to look for studs; I'm hoping I can peel back the siding to see where what is (without pushing myself off the ladder)!

Great suggestions and questions; thanks so much

ps-I wonder about the HEAT reflectivity of a mirror? Just curious if anyone has thought of putting a mirror in the air space between a barrier and a combustible wall? (or radiant barrier foil that's supposed to reflect 97%; maybe I'll stick some of that behind my rock cieling for the fun of it just above the stove).

 

[nate379]

I am just wondering, what is used to hold the wall in shear if there is JUST foam on the outside? Usually the plywood or OSB would be holding the wall in shear. The drywall inside helps a bit as well, but I would not rely on just that.

The foam is a great idea, provided that it's put over the sheathing!

 

[rwhite]

I am just wondering, what is used to hold the wall in shear if there is JUST foam on the outside? Usually the plywood or OSB would be holding the wall in shear. The drywall inside helps a bit as well, but I would not rely on just that.

The foam is a great idea, provided that it's put over the sheathing!

This is pretty common construction that is used in the Southwest anyway on stucco'd houses. The walls are framed and strong tie straps are ran diagonally across the studs. Plywood is used at all the corners. Once that foam is lathed it's pretty dang strong.

 

[castlegates]

I've got half the chimney up; I supported the bottom of the tee bracket screwed with pressure treated 4x4 legs angled back in to a pressure treated 2x4 jammed back against the masonry foundation keeping it all nice and level (later I'll cement a nicer support in, but it looks pretty good)!

3 sections up, hit wood only once, the other straps I have heavy duty drywall expandable screws through the siding just to hold it when I failed to hit wood. I'm going every 3' instead of 5' for extra support, so I'm basically tacking it to the siding for now hitting wood when I can. Because of the uneven clearance spacing if I used cross supports only on the one's I missed wood, it wouldn't be perfectly vertical matching with the base. My solution is to fabricate straps that extend around the chimney to the studs and the existing siding-supported bracket will keep the consistent clearance, keeping it uniformly vertical.

For now, even with just the siding holding some of the straps, it's pretty strong and immovable (even with 40-50-mph gusts all night that blew my ladder down)!

Everything is cleared from tbe basement (cut carpet from slab for hearth, removed anything that could burn from 2+ feet around, scooting the stove from that side wall a little more for clearance. I plan to get some stone board for extra safety and to a test fire on the stove after the chimney is done (then work on hearth installation this weekend).

I'm removing the water coil and installing heavy duty bolts and washers I got from the manufacturer to cover the holes until I get ready for the water heater phase in a couple weeks after the hearth.

Soon I'll be able to submit a review on a DS Machine Energymax 100 with hot water coil! Good bye to $450 PA electric bills!


Regarding construction, the foam is just a little stronger than cooler styrofoam, it feels like. I'm not impressed but what can I do? I read some use plywood for corners, others use straps, others use extra framing. I just wish the economy was different; I'd be out of this place (and state) if I could.