noob says hi (and has a few vc vigilant q's)

[ljmaine]

Found this site after having to deal with a 1977 Vermont castings Vigilant stove and a crazy creosote problem. Upon research it seems these overnighter stoves were pretty much engineered to smother along and form deposits like crazy. Delightful.

Shares a flue with the oil burner (I know... I know) but the oil burner keeps the main chimney squeaky clean. I keep my eye on that. The problem I WAS having was crazy creosote buildup in the stovepipe elbow.

Was cleaning the elbow out practically weekly and getting a couple cups of the flaky, bubbly, black goo.

On advice of this site, two local "experts" and a pdf of the instruction manual (I apparantly don't believe just one person) I now leave the damper open until the elbow reaches a temp of 300'F. (just bought a magnetic thermometer... again, on this site's advice) This is great and has cut my creosote production down to nill.

Fantastic. Thanks you guys. Furthermore, that "tinka-tinka" of creosote burning in the pipe is a sound I haven't heard in a while. Great, it was a very disconcerting noise to say the least.

This is my third winter burning this stove; I had a non-airtight junky asian knockoff for a year before that. Apparantly I formed some bad habits but feel am on course to correct. Please don't flame as I want to learn but of course do stop me from burning my house down.

Now for my q's:

If I leave the damper open when I light it, there is flame in the elbow (see through a tiny screw-hole) before I reach 300'F. But if I return later with a nice bed of coals and open the damper to get 300'F, there is no visible flame. I prefer the second scenario for creosote melting but am I on the right track with this?

Am I in "serious" jeopardy with two things on the same flue? My ins co knows I have a stove and it's been on the policy since I bought the house. I figure if the 2nd hole was in the chimney at some point, it was code, and should be grandfathered in. But of course codes change after reviews of generations of fires.

I burn mostly evenings. Used to stack the stove to the top before bed; now I just throw one log in. Leave the damper closed and let it burn out. Is this long dwindling time of cooler exhaust gasses the biggest source of creosote? Anything I can do to prevent it? I feel more easy sleeping with the damper closed and the heat is sure nice-- I don't want to sit up while I "blow out" my fire.

Finally... the wood is 18 months old, half birch, half oak. I try to mix the two fairly evenly. Dried in a wood shanty under a roof but with open sides. Chimney is lined; furnace in basement, stove on 1st floor, 2 story house. It's my goal to go through 3 cord of wood per winter, with the rest of my heat coming from oil.

 

[Hogwildz]

Found this site after having to deal with a 1977 Vermont castings Vigilant stove and a crazy creosote problem. Upon research it seems these overnighter stoves were pretty much engineered to smother along and form deposits like crazy. Delightful.

Shares a flue with the oil burner (I know... I know) but the oil burner keeps the main chimney squeaky clean. I keep my eye on that. The problem I WAS having was crazy creosote buildup in the stovepipe elbow.

Was cleaning the elbow out practically weekly and getting a couple cups of the flaky, bubbly, black goo.

On advice of this site, two local "experts" and a pdf of the instruction manual (I apparantly don't believe just one person) I now leave the damper open until the elbow reaches a temp of 300'F. (just bought a magnetic thermometer... again, on this site's advice) This is great and has cut my creosote production down to nill.

Fantastic. Thanks you guys. Furthermore, that "tinka-tinka" of creosote burning in the pipe is a sound I haven't heard in a while. Great, it was a very disconcerting noise to say the least.

This is my third winter burning this stove; I had a non-airtight junky asian knockoff for a year before that. Apparantly I formed some bad habits but feel am on course to correct. Please don't flame as I want to learn but of course do stop me from burning my house down.

Now for my q's:

If I leave the damper open when I light it, there is flame in the elbow (see through a tiny screw-hole) before I reach 300'F. But if I return later with a nice bed of coals and open the damper to get 300'F, there is no visible flame. I prefer the second scenario for creosote melting but am I on the right track with this?
What sticks in my mind is you shouldn't be seeing the flame through any holes. Seal it up with furnace cement. Or better yet put a probe thermometer in it for a true internal chimney temp possibly.

Am I in "serious" jeopardy with two things on the same flue? My ins co knows I have a stove and it's been on the policy since I bought the house. I figure if the 2nd hole was in the chimney at some point, it was code, and should be grandfathered in. But of course codes change after reviews of generations of fires.
If you have a 2nd flue, put the furnace or stove into the free one (1 flue per 1 appliance). Better safe than sorry, you must have read other threads here about one drawing down draft from another. That a pretty big nono.

I burn mostly evenings. Used to stack the stove to the top before bed; now I just throw one log in. Leave the damper closed and let it burn out. Is this long dwindling time of cooler exhaust gasses the biggest source of creosote? Anything I can do to prevent it? I feel more easy sleeping with the damper closed and the heat is sure nice-- I don't want to sit up while I "blow out" my fire.
Seems you already answered that question with the elbow temp at 300, you said it didn't build up creosote as bad anymore? Above all do what you are confortable with. But confort levels can change with experience & experiences. If you shut the damper down you should be alright. But that 2 into 1 would worry me continually.

Finally... the wood is 18 months old, half birch, half oak. I try to mix the two fairly evenly. Dried in a wood shanty under a roof but with open sides. Chimney is lined; furnace in basement, stove on 1st floor, 2 story house. It's my goal to go through 3 cord of wood per winter, with the rest of my heat coming from oil.

Consumption is based on wood quality, wood species, burning habits & other factors. But if you are throwing a log on here and there and not burning 24/7, and using oil as primary, 3 cords should be plenty. (Based on limited knowledge of situation & habits).
I would get those each into their own flues, and possibly look into a more efficient, EPA approved stove. Of course, thats just me.
Good luck & of course welcome.

 

[ljmaine]

I should clarify my 3 cord goal is based on two equally sized shanties that hold 3 cord apiece.

If I don't finish my supply off, it will create more complicated logistics when I order green wood next spring for 18 months from then. Ergo, how will I stack it?

Also the hippie in me wants that many BTUs worth of oil to stay in the ground a little longer.

Naturally I want the most efficient, safest heat, from this supply.

 

[webbie]

As to the two in one flue thing, this has been debated many times over the year....and the conclusion is that, as per virtually all codes, the situation requires two flues. As to your exact question- whether you are taking a big chance, my opinion would be this....and based on this....

As I have mentioned before, there were earlier codes, including one in Mass. up to at least the 90's, which allowed OIL and wood into the same flue given the proper chimney capacity. Maine may have had something like it for this reason - the original research and codes were done by the Maine Energy Testing Lab!

BUT, the problem is that people do not check the capacity, the construction and everything else - so it becomes a danger in the real world with the exception of certain mult-fuel furnaces and boilers which are listed for such use (on the label).

OK, so your question is not answered yet - my opinion is that the biggest danger is that the flue is not up to snuff - ask any chimney sweep or inspector and they will tell you that most masonry chimneys are not built correctly. Cracked tiles, close clearance to combustibles, etc....it is rare to find one built to current standards.

Since oil does not make creosote and has a low stack temp, these poorly constructed chimneys are not burning a lot of houses down - but if folks started putting woodstoves into them, and therefore much higher temps, I think the stats would increase.

So, the final opinion is YES, I think that having a chimney which is very likely not up to snuff serving an older woodstove is much more dangerous than having things right. As to exactly HOW much more dangerous, it's hard to measure. We could say that it make the chance of igniting the house 1 in 10,000 as opposed to 1 in 40,000, (just a guess) - which means 4x as dangerous as it might be otherwise. You can greatly lower your chances of injury in three ways - at least:
1. Have a good chimney sweep inspect the chimney for compliance with modern standards...and cracks, etc/
2. Have a good - possibly multiple CO2 and Smoke detectors
3. And, of course, add an additional chimney constructed to code, or power-vent oil burner, etc. through side wall.

(written by an ex-hippie who has ignited a few houses and shed before learning)

 

[BrotherBart]

(written by an ex-hippie who has ignited a few houses and shed before learning)

Now there is the post I have been waiting to see. Tell us about lighting up those houses Craig!

 

[Hogwildz]

(written by an ex-hippie who has ignited a few houses and shed before learning)

Now there is the post I have been waiting to see. Tell us about lighting up those houses Craig!

HAHA, yes please do tell, Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[webbie]

The first one was a FULL tool shed. Me and a bunch of hippies lived in the hollow of West Virginny.
We had a rented house, and some extra bread vans and a corn crib (we insulated it with cardboard and newspaper) to live in. At the time, Martha and I had a bedroom in the house.

The shed was about 30 feet away and was two story. We had no bathrooms nor showers or baths....so, we converted the root cellar which was below the shed to a Sauna. What a nice job we did - using rough sawn lumber for all the walls....looked just great! Installed a warm morning wood stove we found used for $25. or so - and the pipe of course had to go through the wall - in this case, about 3 inches from the ceiling. Someone said to use Asbestos. so we wrapped a little sheet around it and that was that.

Now it was time for the first night to get clean! Wow, we all went in there and fired that stove up, sweat up a storm and felt really good. Went outside and poured some cold water over us (it was winter)......my, I felt like a new man! Went into the house and to sleep.

My dog Wilbur wakes us up in the middle of the night barking his head off. One look out the window and we saw the shed fully engulfed. The heat was so intense that the house roof 30 feet away was steaming and about to ignite. - Oh, we had no hoses or running water either, and the local fire co. could not get their truck up the muddy road!

So we started a bucket brigade down to the creek and threw wet blankets over the house gable to protect it from the flames. BOOM - as the welding tanks and an LP tank blew. All our chainsaws and tools were gone, gone, gone.

In the morning only some twisted metal and ash remained.

A one-time use sauna.

 

[Hogwildz]

The first one was a FULL tool shed. Me and a bunch of hippies lived in the hollow of West Virginny.
We had a rented house, and some extra bread vans and a corn crib (we insulated it with cardboard and newspaper) to live in. At the time, Martha and I had a bedroom in the house.

The shed was about 30 feet away and was two story. We had no bathrooms nor showers or baths....so, we converted the root cellar which was below the shed to a Sauna. What a nice job we did - using rough sawn lumber for all the walls....looked just great! Installed a warm morning wood stove we found used for $25. or so - and the pipe of course had to go through the wall - in this case, about 3 inches from the ceiling. Someone said to use Asbestos. so we wrapped a little sheet around it and that was that.

Now it was time for the first night to get clean! Wow, we all went in there and fired that stove up, sweat up a storm and felt really good. Went outside and poured some cold water over us (it was winter)......my, I felt like a new man! Went into the house and to sleep.

My dog Wilbur wakes us up in the middle of the night barking his head off. One look out the window and we saw the shed fully engulfed. The heat was so intense that the house roof 30 feet away was steaming and about to ignite. - Oh, we had no hoses or running water either, and the local fire co. could not get their truck up the muddy road!

So we started a bucket brigade down to the creek and threw wet blankets over the house gable to protect it from the flames. BOOM - as the welding tanks and an LP tank blew. All our chainsaws and tools were gone, gone, gone.

In the morning only some twisted metal and ash remained.

A one-time use sauna.

I didn't notice a time era reference there anywhere? 70's? Good read Web, better the shed than the house.

 

[webbie]

1972