News flash from stihl! for you octane haters!

[smokinj]

The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI) made its position clear on this issue during recent testimony in front of the House oversight committee on environment and public works. At STIHL our basic recommendation is that fuel be as high an octane rating as possible, at least 89, and contain no more than 10% ethanol. STIHL customers should also be aware that using fuel containing more than 10% ethanol could void the product warranty.




(broken link removed to http://stihlusa.blogspot.com/2011/05/stihl-motomix-offers-convenience-and.html)

 

[CTYank]

The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI) made its position clear on this issue during recent testimony in front of the House oversight committee on environment and public works. At STIHL our basic recommendation is that fuel be as high an octane rating as possible, at least 89, and contain no more than 10% ethanol. STIHL customers should also be aware that using fuel containing more than 10% ethanol could void the product warranty.

Sure sounds like Stihl USA wants their customers in a squeeze between feds/EPA, oil companies, and Stihl dealers. Some folks have said that Echo has gotten into that.

Maybe they could design/build their saws to run reliably with available fuels and/or provide appropriate additives in their engine oil.

Something's wrong when the big-guys threaten to jump on the little-guys. (How do you know if someone sells you 13% ethanol, vice the 10% on the label?)

Better the big players work it out and keep the paying customers out of the scrimmage, not try to use them as their lobbying tools.

 

[smokinj]

The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI) made its position clear on this issue during recent testimony in front of the House oversight committee on environment and public works. At STIHL our basic recommendation is that fuel be as high an octane rating as possible, at least 89, and contain no more than 10% ethanol. STIHL customers should also be aware that using fuel containing more than 10% ethanol could void the product warranty.

Sure sounds like Stihl USA wants their customers in a squeeze between feds/EPA, oil companies, and Stihl dealers. Some folks have said that Echo has gotten into that.

Maybe they could design/build their saws to run reliably with available fuels and/or provide appropriate additives in their engine oil.

Something's wrong when the big-guys threaten to jump on the little-guys. (How do you know if someone sells you 13% ethanol, vice the 10% on the label?)

Better the big players work it out and keep the paying customers out of the scrimmage, not try to use them as their lobbying tools.

Yep they are throwing darts for sure. Really do not think they could prove it anyways but sure sending a strong message. This really means there taking a beating on saws going down in the first year.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

 

[mayhem]

They want us to all go to Wal Mart and buy the pre-mixed stuff in the quart cans at 5x the price of pump gas.

 

[smokinj]

They want us to all go to Wal Mart and buy the pre-mixed stuff in the quart cans at 5x the price of pump gas.

No, but stressing at-least 89 octane as mim.

 

[smokinj]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

That is a great way to go....

 

[Creekyphil]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

I'm not familiar with avgas, but a quick google shows many different grades and types. Is there one that you recommend running?

 

[smokinj]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

I'm not familiar with avgas, but a quick google shows many different grades and types. Is there one that you recommend running?

This stuff is expensie and can be bought at any small airport. 100 octane without ethanol. If you just run the best can you can find you will be in good shape. I run 93 and 94. There is additives out there to take the ethanol out. The saws being ran on 87 octane and under is where the issue really lyes. Without the ethanol there would not be a problem.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I think Stihl is just trying to come up with another money maker; those little homeowners that run their saw once every year or two for maybe 20 minutes.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

I'm not familiar with avgas, but a quick google shows many different grades and types. Is there one that you recommend running?

100LL AvGas. It's the only gasoline I've ever seen sold at airports in WA. I heard 88LL used to be common but no one sells it anymore. Check with a local municipal airport. I bet they have only Jet A (which is basically kerosene) and 100LL AvGas.

A couple bonuses: 1) AvGas has a very long shelf life, even in a plastic gas can. In a metal gas can it takes years to go bad. 2) It will not gum up your carb the way pump gas will if left sitting for too long. 3) Easier starting - a 5 pull saw becomes a 3 or 4 pull saw. 4) More complete/uniform combustion makes the saw run cooler at a given RPM, AND by the same principal you'll get a few extra RPM. 5) Around here it costs only about $.50 per gallon more than premium and the biggest pain about it is actually going to the airport to get it.

 

[smokinj]

AvGas = 100 octane + Lead = chainsaw bliss

I'm not familiar with avgas, but a quick google shows many different grades and types. Is there one that you recommend running?

100LL AvGas. It's the only gasoline I've ever seen sold at airports in WA. I heard 88LL used to be common but no one sells it anymore. Check with a local municipal airport. I bet they have only Jet A (which is basically kerosene) and 100LL AvGas.

A couple bonuses: 1) AvGas has a very long shelf life, even in a plastic gas can. In a metal gas can it takes years to go bad. 2) It will not gum up your carb the way pump gas will if left sitting for too long. 3) Easier starting - a 5 pull saw becomes a 3 or 4 pull saw. 4) More complete/uniform combustion makes the saw run cooler at a given RPM, AND by the same principal you'll get a few extra RPM. 5) Around here it costs only about $.50 per gallon more than premium and the biggest pain about it is actually going to the airport to get it.

At .50 cents more its a NO- Brain-er!

 

[CTBurner]

The airport near me has AV gas both LL100 and LL80 am i correct in that the LL100 would be best choice for saws

 

[lukem]

Forgive the ignorance, and if this has been discussed before, but what is it about ethanol that would be hard on a two stroke engine? I know they can be hard on a fuel system (deteriorate plastics and rubbers) but what is the difference when the fuel is in the cylinder?

 

[smokinj]

Forgive the ignorance, and if this has been discussed before, but what is it about ethanol that would be hard on a two stroke engine? I know they can be hard on a fuel system (deteriorate plastics and rubbers) but what is the difference when the fuel is in the cylinder?

Without going into the science of it (because I cant) It cause piston failure ring and or damage.

 

[lukem]

Forgive the ignorance, and if this has been discussed before, but what is it about ethanol that would be hard on a two stroke engine? I know they can be hard on a fuel system (deteriorate plastics and rubbers) but what is the difference when the fuel is in the cylinder?

Without going into the science of it (because I cant) It cause piston failure ring and or damage.

Anyone know anything else?

Alcohol burns cooler than gas, so is it a temperature thing?

In a 4 cycle engine spark knock/detonation/pinging can occur with poor quality fuel, which leans things out and can burn a hole in the piston if it goes on long enough. Could the same type of thing apply for 2 cycle engines and ethanol?

There has to be some science behind it. I'm with you Jay...don't disagree with the statement...but sure would like to know why ethanol is bad (don't know the science either).

 

[smokinj]

Forgive the ignorance, and if this has been discussed before, but what is it about ethanol that would be hard on a two stroke engine? I know they can be hard on a fuel system (deteriorate plastics and rubbers) but what is the difference when the fuel is in the cylinder?

Without going into the science of it (because I cant) It cause piston failure ring and or damage.

Anyone know anything else?

Alcohol burns cooler than gas, so is it a temperature thing?

In a 4 cycle engine spark knock/detonation/pinging can occur with poor quality fuel, which leans things out and can burn a hole in the piston if it goes on long enough. Could the same type of thing apply for 2 cycle engines and ethanol?

There has to be some science behind it. I'm with you Jay...don't disagree with the statement...but sure would like to know why ethanol is bad (don't know the science either).

The stihl news letter link at the top of the thread has many supporting links with in the news letter sure the details are there.
Too long winded for me to write down....lol This is a direct link form stihls news letter.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...s-from-the-wear-and-tear-of-e10?click=main_sr

 

[oldspark]

I will look for a link but ethanol does not burn cooler.

 

[lukem]

Thanks Jay.

Cliff's Notes:

Results from the use of ethanol, which can cause rust and carbon deposits inside the engine, dissolve plastic parts and more

Deposits and corrosion aren't the only reasons alcohol is hard on today's small engines. The power plants are easily ruined by bad fuel because they lack the sophisticated computer-controlled ignition systems found in today's cars and trucks. The alcohol can cause the fuel to ignite at the wrong time in the combustion sequence, ruining parts in the process.

 

[lukem]

I will look for a link but ethanol does not burn cooler.

Sure it does. That's why it is popular with race cars. Doesn't pack as much punch as gas, but burns a lot cooler.

 

[fireview2788]

Stihl told me the same thing several months ago when I contacted them to get a manual for my saw. They said a minimum of 89 octane.


fv

 

[oldspark]

I will look for a link but ethanol does not burn cooler.

Sure it does. That's why it is popular with race cars. Doesn't pack as much punch as gas, but burns a lot cooler.

I know that but there is a disagreement on it in two strokes, do a google search and you will find a huge can of worms.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

The airport near me has AV gas both LL100 and LL80 am i correct in that the LL100 would be best choice for saws

Yes

 

[fyrwoodguy]

The airport near me has AV gas both LL100 and LL80 am i correct in that the LL100 would be best choice for saws

Yes

i'm with you redd...+1

 

[smokinj]

The airport near me has AV gas both LL100 and LL80 am i correct in that the LL100 would be best choice for saws

Yes

i'm with you redd...+1

How much a gallon does this run? Average is fine.