Newbie with Jotul F400

[nhchad]

Newbie with a 3 day old F400 with some questions :

1. How much wood to put in? I've got mostly splits and it seems that putting much more than 3 is difficult at best. Stove burns very good but seems to be needing wood about every 90 mins? Stove temp is right around 500 - 525. Burning hardwood that is probably seasoned for at least two years. Wood is mostly white-oak with some red-oak mixed in. splits are 16 to 18" long and probably 5 to 6 inches on each of the three sides.

2. Air control; seems to be constantly to the right of the half-way point and as stated temp is typically >500 and less than <550. Am I letting in too much air? I've got 30' of 6" SS liner installed and the stove burns very well. I can light it with newspaper and few pieces of kindling. When burning at the temp range stated I have zero visible smoke outside and the firebox is literally an inferno.

3. Should I let it burn out from time to time? I'm sure there is no problem burning it 24 x 7 but does everyone else? I'm using it as supplemental heat for my 3400 SF house. It can keep the first floor very very warm with the stove in the 500 to 550 range.

Some comments :

Was installed by the dealer's installer on saturday. Did the (3) recommended initial burns and finally light it up for real on sunday morning. Started at 5:30 AM and by 8:30 AM the 1st floor was very comfortable. Stove is installed in my family room which is 16 x 26 and has a long opening to the rest of the downstairs on the longside. Turned my oil heat OFF on the first floor on sunday and the temp is currently a comfortable 72. The stove looks great and has already proven that I'll be able to save some serious $$$ on oil. Sunday in NH started off at a chilly 15 and never got above 24. Typically my forced oil fired forced hot water baseboard system would run quite a bit to keep it at the same temperature. A little bit of the heat slowly migrated upstairs but not enough to really say it would heat the entire house (~3400SF). However as stated the first floor at 1750 SF is heated better than I would imagine. I will state that I have low e-glass and 2x6 construction in a 6 year old house so it's very well insulated.

We looked at pellet stoves as well but didn't want to have to screw with storing pellets and the variable cost associated with them. I've got access to a local saw-mill and can buy off the "grapple" for $60 a cord so wood is by far the cheapest option.

So with 3 days into burning; I love it. I also can't say enough about the dealer / installer as they both delivered beyond my expectations.

 

[chad3]

I think the agreed upon thought is 3-4 splits. I am down to about 10-20% air once it gets going. DON'T KEEP IT HIGH LONG, just to a good burn (mistake last night, 750 range on temp). Drop the air when it is about 50-100 degrees cooler than you really want it, and keep settling the air down till it is going good. Too much will just put air up the stack. Good luck, I like the Jotul, although the glass doesn't stay as clear as I would like. I usually don't let it go out, but clear ash in the mornings before putting new kindling in the stove to get it going for the day.
Chad (same)

 

[begreen]

Welcome Chad, congratulations.

The F400 has a shallow firebox. It will take about four medium sized splits is an average load. Definitely try less air once the wood is charred. With that tall a stack you may be able to close it off completely and still burn strongly. The idea is to get it into secondary combustion as soon as possible. That will extend your between loading times. Don't surprised or alarmed if the stove top temps go up 50 to 100 degrees when you do this. The stove is fine running at 650 degrees, though this is where you are glad you respected the manufacturer's clearances.

Once the house is warmed up, we generally slack off and start loading 2-3 larger splits and run the stove at a bit lower temp, around 450 for our wood. It's up to you whether you burn it 24/7 or not. The stove is built to take it.

 

[Jotul Jed]

I have a couple of questions related to this topic. We recently installed our Jotul F400 ourselves. It is in the center of our house, which is off-grid up in the mountains. We have about 20 feet of double wall black pipe inside the house and then 6 feet of insulated stainless out the roof. It is about 3 feet higher than the peak of the roof outside. We burned the stove for a while before the house was insulated and since then have cleaned out the stovepipe and continued using the stove.

Question 1: Since insulating the house, the stove spills smoke out at a phenomenal rate. I have installed the outside air kit to the stove, and the problem persists. It makes no difference if I open a window or door near the stove. I have let the stove cool and checked the inside of the top of the stove for a build up of ash or creosote that might be blocking the smoke and there was none. Does anyone know of another reason this might be happening and how I could fix it? I've contacted the dealer we bought it from and the answer I keep getting is "We're waiting to see the Jotul representative, who should be here any day now...".

Question 2: This might be related to Question 1. The stove burns better on the left side than on the right. By this I mean that when I go to reload the stove, there are more coals and unburned little chunks of wood on the right side than on the left. It is obvious while it is burning, as the left side glows brighter and has more active flames. Is it possible that there is something blocking the right side that is preventing enough air from "washing" down the glass and therefore is also messing up the draft?

Any help on either of these problems would be greatly appreciated. The stove seems to burn well and keep the house warm, but filling up our house with smoke is a major problem, and we don't have any other heat source for the winter.

Thanks

Jed Dillingham

Jotul F400
Stihl MS 361 25" bar
Stihl MS 260 20" bar
Many, many mauls and axes and wedges . . .

 

[ansehnlich1]

Jotul Jed, check your chimney cap that it is not clogged, or that some other obstruction is not in the chimney.

Also I'd check the air inlet that it is free of obstruction.

When does this thing spill smoke? All the time? On startup?

I have an Oslo and when I start a new fire I always light a couple pieces of newspaper to get the draft rolling before lighting the kindling.



nhchad, my bet would be that you have a strong draft, hence the short burn time, try cutting the air back on that stove once you get it to 500 or so, cut the air way back, maybe even closed, and keep an eye on those secondary burn tubes, see if you get a bunch of flame action up at the top of the firebox there......that's what you should be seeing. Those pipes should glow orange, well, at least they do on my Oslo.

 

[Jotul Jed]

Jotul Jed, check your chimney cap that it is not clogged, or that some other obstruction is not in the chimney.

Also I'd check the air inlet that it is free of obstruction.

When does this thing spill smoke? All the time? On startup?

I have an Oslo and when I start a new fire I always light a couple pieces of newspaper to get the draft rolling before lighting the kindling.

I know the chimney is not clogged. I have taken the clean out cap off the bottom and I can look straight up at the underside of the chimney cap. No creosote even to speak of.

The air intake is clear also. Even with a slightly clogged air intake, if the the fire is burning properly then the draft should pull the smoke out. Especially with the door open, I would think, when it would be getting lots of combustion air. It is my understanding that this stove is designed so that it can be burned as a fireplace with no door on it and just a screen where the door had been. It I did that, we'd all die of carbon monoxide poisoning.

It smokes all the time. On startup it is worse, of course, but it does it even when the stove is raring hot and full of glowing red coals. There isn't as much smoke being created at that point, so it's not as noticeable, but it still does it.

 

[begreen]

Jed, is the stove set up with top exit or rear exit flue? Is the smoke spillage worst when you are first trying to heat up the cabin from a very low temp? How is the wood as far as being really dry?

The uneven burning is not right, it may indicate an air leak. Have you done the dollar bill test on the door and ashpan gaskets? Also examine the door glass seal carefully. Make sure that it is sealing all the way around. Often, if there is air leakage, there will be a telltale carbon soot trail leading to the leakage point. Examine the stove for this. And last, was the top removed from the stove at any point? If it is not seated squarely, it may be leaking. Look at the bottom edge of the stove top on the sides. It should be perfectly level and square with the stove body.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Jed here's another question, is your home situated at the base of a large hill, where prevailing wind flow may sweep down that hill toward your home/chimney?

 

[Jotul Jed]

It is not situated on a hill. It is well open on all sides. We are on a mountain, but the terrain is not such that wind pushes down on the house. I notice this problem whether or not the weather is windy, anyways. Even on a perfectly still day, the problem continues.

Jed

 

[Jotul Jed]

Jed, is the stove set up with top exit or rear exit flue? Is the smoke spillage worst when you are first trying to heat up the cabin from a very low temp? How is the wood as far as being really dry?

The uneven burning is not right, it may indicate an air leak. Have you done the dollar bill test on the door and ashpan gaskets? Also examine the door glass seal carefully. Make sure that it is sealing all the way around. Often, if there is air leakage, there will be a telltale carbon soot trail leading to the leakage point. Examine the stove for this. And last, was the top removed from the stove at any point? If it is not seated squarely, it may be leaking. Look at the bottom edge of the stove top on the sides. It should be perfectly level and square with the stove body.

In order . . .

1) The stove is set up with top exit. It goes up 4' then does a 90, then travels horizontally for 2', then intersects the T with the clean out and goes vertically for another 16 - 18 feet before passing through the roof.

2) The smoke spillage is worse when the house, and therefore the interior metal chimney, are cold. However, as I said, the problem continues even when the house is 72 downstairs and 80 upstairs and the fire has been running all day.

3) The wood is VERY dry.

4) There are no carbon trails to show an air leak. The stove is only one year old and has only been used, total, for maybe 4 months. The top was never removed and the gaskets are all tight. There is a noticeable difference when either the ash pan or glass door is opened, but I haven't done the dollar bill test yet. It is our only source of heat and I haven't wanted to cool the house down that much yet.

Thanks, everyone, for all the responses.

Jed

 

[ansehnlich1]

Well something just ain't addin' up here. I'd take a look at the things BeGreen suggested. And I ain't trying to be mean, but I'd go out and take a real close look at my cap, especially if it had a spark screen on it.

Something just ain't right with this picture.

Brad

 

[begreen]

Put a level on the horizontal run. I'm betting it is either level or running slightly downhill. It needs to head uphill at least 1/4" per foot.

If it were me, I would change out the 90's for a pair of 45's and have the 4' offset made up with a diagonal telescoping section of pipe. It will draft much better and will be easier to clean.