newbie needs advice

[monstertruck287]

Hello all! first post here. I am new to all this boiler stuff and want to build a system for mobile home. right now i am heating with an old ashley circulator, but want to use my existing oil furnace blower and a hx hooked to an older model boiler i got for free. I am building a small addition on the side of my trailor to put the boiler in. My oil furnace is rated for 60,000 btu so im assuming thats what i need the hx to be also? i dont know anything about the boiler, I can't find no info anywhere on it. All i know is it was a coal boiler and somebody converted it to oil, now i want to convert it wood. My home is a 1972 12x60 with a 7X30 slide out addition. so what i need help with is, hx size, pump size, and maybe a diagram of a similar setup? Any advice at all would be great. I also plan to use a 40 gal electric water heater as storage. I got the boiler thinking it would be an easy install, but after a few days of trying to research what i need i just got more confused I'll post a couple pics of the boiler tomorrow .Someone please point me in the right direction.

 

[Tennman]

OK... Anyone who's posting at 3 in the morning deserves SOME input. As I understand it you have a boiler of unknown output BUT apparently a furnace with a 60K output keeps the place warm. Here's what I'd do:

1) Forget messing with storage right off the bat. Will dramtically simplify getting heat now.
2) Your water to air heat exchanger (abreviated here to HX) has to go into your existing ductwork downstream of your furnace blower in a plenum before where all the ducts splits up to go everywhere. That plenum will be maybe 20" x 20" in cross section (that's just my guess for discussion here). That's where your HX will go and about the size of your HX, now do some research how THICK it will be to produce 60K BTUs at about 175-180 deg F.
3) Your boiler needs to have some type of control to turn on the circulator pump or something. You gotta figure out if your boiler has any brains.
4) Call a pump supplier or do research here to pick a pump (like from a company like Taco) that will circulate the water from boiler to HX and back. But something has to turn it on and off.
5) Figure out how you will insulate those 1" diameter water lines between the boiler and the HX.

I'm assuming from your post you have a steep learning curve. Above are 5 steps to get you started finding the some of the key parts. I'm off now for my second cup of coffee to go with Fox and Friends. BTW, my mom lives outside Hollidaysburg. Good luck.

 

[monstertruck287]

Here are some pics of what i have. The duct directly under my furnace is 12"x12" so i guess that's the size i need. Would a hx out of an old a/c work for my needs? I don't plan on using my oil furnace at all except for the blower. I was also wondering if I can use this control box to turn the pump and fan on at the same time? Any idea of the btu this boiler can put out? It measures 34"L 23"W 28"H. i plan to weld a firebox under whats there so i can use a bigger feed door. Ok give me a few for the pics. <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From boiler</td></tr></table> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From boiler</td></tr></table> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From boiler</td></tr></table> <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From boiler</td></tr></table>

 

[monstertruck287]

Ok so i can't figure the pics out quite right. i read the sticky and followed the directions but no pics would show up, so this what i got for now.

 

[monstertruck287]

And to answer your question about insulation, I am going to lowes and getting the frost king fiberglass.

 

[Tennman]

Not a good sign that I'm the only one replying. I think you need someone local to help you because from what I see there will be far too many decisions and issues to try to solve via forum inputs. If you're gonna do this yourself, you'll have to understand all that's necessary and what you have and don't have now. Maybe someone else will pitch in here, but from what I see I'm not sure you really have anything that is useable. Sorry, but I really think you need someone with boots on the ground there to help.

 

[Gasifier]

Monster,

Have you thought about a used wood stove? You could direct the warm air around with a couple of small fans. Might be a lot less headaches and cheaper. Just an idea. Don't mean to say you can't do what your thinking. But I hear what Tenn is saying as well. And that could get more expensive as you go along. I have seen some decent stoves on Craigslist sell for like $300. And all you have to do is hook up a proper stack. Could work for you for a year or two until you figured out the boiler thing as well. If that is the what you want. Just an idea. Good luck man, and keep us posted on how you make out.

 

[Fred61]

Not a good sign that I'm the only one replying. I think you need someone local to help you because from what I see there will be far too many decisions and issues to try to solve via forum inputs. If you're gonna do this yourself, you'll have to understand all that's necessary and what you have and don't have now. Maybe someone else will pitch in here, but from what I see I'm not sure you really have anything that is useable. Sorry, but I really think you need someone with boots on the ground there to help.

I agree with Tennman. Forum messages can help with design enhancements, etc. but some kind of workable concept must be in place before sent and received messages can be of any value.

BTW, Sometime working with Picassa can be daunting for a new user. I happen to be one that doesn't use it. Back when I loaded it I was able to make use of all it's features but it ate all my regular files and I wasn't able to view them. I had to bring my computer to a geek to retrieve my photos. After going to several Picassa forums, I found that I was not the only one this has happened to. If the only thing you are using it for is to re size photos, there is a simpler way.

Go to http://bluefive.pair.com/ and download "Pix Resizer". It's a little freeware program that allows you to re-size any photo in your files and save it to the chosen size. Then all you need to do is choose it and insert it in your message. Great for E-mails!

 

[monstertruck287]

I am using an ashey wood stove now sitting in my livingroom and a fan so i do have heat for now. The reason i want the boiler is so i can use my thermostat to control the heat, get the mess out of here, and warm the belly of my trailor so it keeps my pipes warm to. Last night i was messing with the honeywell 3way relay box and it seems to work properly, turns on and off with call for heat and turns on pump if i hold a lighter on the probe. I also found a hx on the net the size i need for $107. So what i have is the boiler the controller and a hx picked out so far. I know i need a pump, the lines and insulation, some valves, and an expansion tank which i think i can get one from where the boiler was. Anything else i need to source? Sorry for being a newb but this what i really want to do and get it done soon. I almost have my addition done for the boiler, it is at ground level and about 3' of steps to floor level of my home. I am gona take the boiler to my buddies garage and work on it and clean it up in the next couple days, it seems solid not rotted out at all. Thanks for your help on this guys.

 

[Tennman]

I admire perseverence. Usually the key to success.

Most boilers like mine have 2 controllers and in my case they are independent.

First turns on the water circulation pump when the water in the boiler reaches a useable temp, about 150-160 F. When the temp in the boiler is less than that temp, the pump cuts off to allow the boiler to heat back up. At this point I'm assuming your boiler does not have a fan pushing air into the combustion chamber. The boiler controller also controls that fan if you have one. My guess is that there is one to control the fire.

Second the termostat that turns on the blower in your ductwork when the home needs heat. Two controllers, each managing it's own job.

You probably have no idea of the energy capacity of your boiler, but given the size of your home I'd GUESS (emphasis on guess!) a pump size typically used in an EKO 25 would work. I use a pump made by Taco. Do a search here for EKO 25 Taco, or even better one of the EKO 25 guys will chime in.

The above is Wood Boiler 101. All very unscientific, but what the heck, I'm just sipping coffee again. Hope your boiler shed is well away from your home. This approach certainly is far less than ideal.

 

[monstertruck287]

Yes the controller has one for pump, one for a fan for the firebox, and another for a second zone. I will research about the second controller for the blower. I do want to ad a fan for the firebox. I was on taco website tryin figure out the right pump size, but i need to learn alittle more before i decide, according to what i figured so far I think I need a 005. Unfortunately it looks like i can"t spend no money on this untill after christmas. I just started a new night job and I'm low on cash, so anyway it will give me time to research some more and do it right and gather what I can for free or build for cheap. Oh and the room is an add on where my back door is, right now its just a stone floor but plan for concrete someday. The top of the boiler will be about a foot or 2 below the hx and about a 30 foot run to it. The room is about 10x16 so i got plenty of space for future ad ons and a storage tank. I wish I could have made it farther away but I don't got open space for it elsewhere, and I thought it convenient I don't gotta go out in the cold to fill it up. It was in a basement before and has an insulated tin cover to go around it, so i figured close is OK as long as it isn't actually in my livingroom like my ashley. I'll continue to read the forum and learn away untill I get more cash, I've learned alot and enjoy it while I'm at it. Thanks for the help so far guys!

 

[2.beans]

first things first is you should get done what your doing to the boiler and get in place. then or now find a taco 007 pump on ebay. start with that it probably will do it. one with an internal flow check would be a bonus. use you the triple aquastat to run run the pump. you may be able to run the fan as well but you would have to talk to a professional about that. you should have a second aquastat that closes on rise in case your boiler gets to hot when there is no call for heat to dump the excess heat without boiling over.

 

[benjamin]

First I'll have to recommend considering the other options. It just doesn't seem like this is a good fit for your situation. Hydronics systems are designed for quality and longevity which presents a problem for any low budget and/or quick schedule hydronics install. You have the quick and cheap way to heat a quick and cheap structure. But you're doing this anyway, so...

Make sure you flush the boiler out with a hose with some pressure. Tip it up so it slopes to the drain and move the hose around to get all of the sludge and mice nests out before you hook anything up to it. Sand and gunk will stay on the bottom of that boiler, but an acorn can make your system have all kinds of problems. Also design the pipes large enough, with enough air vents and with slope as if you are using thermosyphoning, air in the system is the number one PITA for starting up a system like this. A "kilawat" meter (or clamp on amp meter) can be a useful tool to check the watt draw of the pump when you're trying to figure out if it's circulating, a given pump will draw the fewest watts if it's airlocked or at high head low flow, and most watts at lowest head highest flow. You'll have to listen to tell when it has air, when you turn the pump off, you'll hear the air more as the pump slows down.

An 005 pump might do the job, but an 007 (or equivalent) is much more common (cheaper) and certainly isn't overkill.

You mentioned a 12"x12" duct as the size of heat exchanger. You want something bigger than that, find a place upstream of the oil furnace if you have to, or remove the oil furnace.