New Yorker Or Harman

[Wood Pirate]

Hi Everyone.
As you can see I am new to the site but can see that you guys are the most qualified to answer my question.
I am taking out my woodstove which sits next to my boiler and would like to add a wood/coal boiler add on to supplement my oil boiler.

With not a lot of money to spend I have narrowed it down to 2 choices unless I find a decent used one in the mean time.
1. New Yorker Model WC90
2. Harman SF160

Both are reasonably priced and similar. Lead time on the New Yorker is 10 weeks. Harmon says November but I have heard that could mean next year.

Can anyone offer advise on this? Would either of them have a longer burn time? I am going to primarily burn wood. I have heard a 4 - 5 hours burn time which seems low. Is either one buit better?

 

[firebird400]

have you looked at the baisi 3 wood by qht it looks like a great boiler

 

[Wood Pirate]

No I have not. But I will take a look today.

 

[SUPPLYGUY]

I sell the New yorker I just had 3 wc90's come in lead time is about 8 weeks. I burn a wc130 in my house 3700 sq ft new construction. I pack that boiler at 10:00pm and at 6am theres still lots of red ash. My next order of boilers will be in next week. call me if I can help. 860-808-9466

 

[steam man]

My dad used a New Yorker WC120 for a few years. Nicely made. I would suggest not to oversize unless you have storage. You want it to burn hot and not smolder to minimze creosote problems. The downside seems as if the smaller unit will give less burn time.

Mike

 

[SUPPLYGUY]

The wc90 and wc130 have the same height and width firebox. The length of the box is the size difference so you can get still get a good load of wood in the small one.

 

[ssupercoolss]

i just put a downpayment on a harman. it seems i got one of the last ones ordered in pa. my choice was also between the harman and the new yorker. both seemed to have similar features, except maybe the harman has an ash drawer where as maybe the new yorker had just some kind of clean-out? i forget. i liked the harman just a smidge better, but from what i have heard, if it wasnt already an ordered piece, it very well could be next year from harman.

 

[Wood Pirate]

Well everyone has been very helpful. I am leaning toward the New Yorker. Its seems like a decent model and I would rather not risk not getting the Harman until the middle of this heating season.

The Harmon does seem like an extremely well built boiler. Can anyone explain why the harmon does not have a fan on it and why some models including the New Yorker do have a fan?

I would assume the fan is to stoke the fire when heat is called for. Does that mean the fire is just smoldering when the system is not calling for heat?

Also should the pressure relief be piped through an outside wall just in case or is piping it into the basement as done with a oil or gas boiler sufficient?

 

[steam man]

On the WC120 I mentioned (it looks exactly the same as the newer models) the fan was on controlled by an aquastat up to 180 and then it turned off until the boiler was at 160 deg, and then back on. If the boiler stayed hot from no load then yes, smoldering could occur. Just make sure you burn well seasoned wood. That being said you can always burn some coal and not worry about creosote. Maybe some CO-oh yeah get a CO detector.

The install instructions should tell you to use an automag valve to dump the load in case of power outage to a large baseboard zone. My dad used a thermostatic valve on the tankless coil to dump hot water to a drain in case of overheating. He had an indirect tank. The relief valve should be piped per code and hopefully near a floor drain. It doesn't need to go through an outside wall , especially where there is a freezing potential which may be a problem.

Mike

 

[SUPPLYGUY]

Both NY models have an ash pan. I have to dump my pan about every 2 weeks. The boiler market is becoming not what boiler you like its what boiler you can get.

 

[jmarkowski]

We just purchased a New Yorker WC130 and are having trouble burning coal. Can anyone help with some information on burning coal. We normally burn wood with no problems. However, when we decided to switch to burning coal we are having the following problems:

1. The flame doesn't spread to cover all the coal in the boiler.
2. The coal does not burn away to an ash, unburned chunks remain in the boiler.
3. Not generating enough hot temperatures, water temps struggle to hold 170
4. Short burn times
5. Blower needed to keep burning

We are using Redding Anthracite coal.

 

[LeonMSPT]

I think I've been lucky with the coal, but I like it better than wood.

1. I've had some large chunks... no barometric damper, contractor didn't like them and I didn't either. But it seems it's not going to be right if it's not there. Overdrafting clinkers your coal instead of consuming it... lot's of coal gas puffs, and an explosion, have convinced me that you can't burn this stuff in a vacuum. Do you have a barometric damper, and is it set up properly? Coal is sensitive about draft... not enough, no coal fire and no heat. Too much? Clinkers and overfires.

2. When you light a coal fire, do you put a charge of kindling wood and small splits in with some paper and burn it down to coals before adding coal?

3. When you add coal, only add a small layer, and try to not "kill" the flames off the coal you put in previously... see noted explosions above... no fire, not so good, as it allows gas to accumulate until it reaches the proper temperature and mixture, then it all burns at once.

4. Do you make a deep fire? The WC line says to the bottom of the loading door. The heat you get from coal comes from the depth of the fire, not the width...

 

[jmarkowski]

Thanks for the info.
1. Got an education tonight on different sizes of coal. seems the Reading anthracite is much to large. There is a much higher percentage of large chuncks (larger than stove size 2-7/16") than there is of pea size (13/16" - 9/16"). I'm going to try burning straight pea size as listed in the wc130 specs.
I tried with and without a barometric damper. Same type of burn either way. My install contractor indicates I may need a power style draft enducer as the barometric door does not open when fire is burning.
2. Yes , I add coal slowly over a bed of hot wood coals. the coal makes a lot of sizzle, crackig and popping at this point. Is this normal?
3.I must have the temp.- mixture problem. One minute its burning, then it's a quick death- it's out. What is the explosions you mention and how does this happen?
4.I was not aware a deeper fire is better. My intentions were to get the entire area filled to the height marker and burning but I can't keep it burning .
5 Does coal have a moisture concern like wood?

Thanks

 

[LeonMSPT]

Thanks for the info.
1. Got an education tonight on different sizes of coal. seems the Reading anthracite is much to large. There is a much higher percentage of large chuncks (larger than stove size 2-7/16") than there is of pea size (13/16" - 9/16"). I'm going to try burning straight pea size as listed in the wc130 specs.

Sometimes a mix works better, but I've been burning "nut" sized coal with decent results, not perfect yet but I am working on it.

I tried with and without a barometric damper. Same type of burn either way. My install contractor indicates I may need a power style draft enducer as the barometric door does not open when fire is burning.

Need to have the draft evaluated with a manometer or draft gauge. Can't make any judgement really, based on an adjustment made on a bone stock barometric damper. I think that is part of the reason they have such a bum rap in some circles, although I can't testify to it. People just stick them in the pipe, set the draft to what they want it with the weight, and go on their way. Not that simple, unfortunately.

2. Yes , I add coal slowly over a bed of hot wood coals. the coal makes a lot of sizzle, crackig and popping at this point. Is this normal?

Crack, snap, pop, rice crispies in there.... evenatually should break out into small blue flames over glowing edged coal... it's lit and ready for the next layer...

3.I must have the temp.- mixture problem. One minute its burning, then it's a quick death- it's out. What is the explosions you mention and how does this happen?

Sounds like poor draft, hard to tell.

4.I was not aware a deeper fire is better. My intentions were to get the entire area filled to the height marker and burning but I can't keep it burning .

The "Marker" on mine is lower than the door. Looks like some dummy put the sticker on lined up with the bottom corner of the jacket, not the door opening... might be yours is the same? I haven't checked with New Yorker, but it looks like this is the case.

5 Does coal have a moisture concern like wood?

Don't believe moisture can penetrate carbon bonds... there's gas in it... when it gets hot it turns shiny and gives off the gas. Try to not let too much of that accumulate unburnt in a poorly vented firebox... eventually the air supply and temperature will be "just right", and it's going to shake your house. Make sure installer screwed chimney connector together with three screws at each joint.

Thanks