Hello to everyone. I have been looking around the site for a few weeks and love it! For the last 11 years we heating our 1300sq' house with the old allnighter (moe) that came with it when we bought it. About 6 cords a year plus we burn the oil furnace also, 20-250 gallons depending on our schedule. Next May I'm putting up a 36x30 garage and going to get some kinda boiler to heat both. After years of research my brother installed a cb e-series last year with no storage yet. He loves it but swears if he could do it again he would go with a econoburn or an eko. His wood is very dry as always but his stove puffs a little smoke before it gets into the reburn stage and it torques him. It's a minor thing to me but I understand his point for what he paid for that boiler. The whole heating water/storage deal confuses me. I know dozens of locals that run heatmore/woodmaster/wooddoctor etc stoves.. No storage issues, throw the wood in and walk away. Which way do I go? Thanks, Kevin
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I'm sorry I can't speak to the choice your facing. Know nothing about that world. I burn wood in a stand alone wood stove in the house.
Just a comment about the "6 cords" a year: That's a LOT of wood!! You got a home that is pretty drafty? 1300 sq. ft. isn't huge......MY home is about the same, and I burn 3 cords from October to March.
Having spent a lot of time every year, for a number of years, in upstate New York, I know it does stay cold up there longer than here in Connecticut, but..............seems like a LOT of wood to me.
Anything you can do to tighten up your house? I'm thinkin you could save about 3 cords a year ($$). Or do you just like a roaring fire, all the time inside, and burn outside in the summer?
-Soupy1957
Just a comment about the "6 cords" a year: That's a LOT of wood!! You got a home that is pretty drafty? 1300 sq. ft. isn't huge......MY home is about the same, and I burn 3 cords from October to March.
Having spent a lot of time every year, for a number of years, in upstate New York, I know it does stay cold up there longer than here in Connecticut, but..............seems like a LOT of wood to me.
Anything you can do to tighten up your house? I'm thinkin you could save about 3 cords a year ($$). Or do you just like a roaring fire, all the time inside, and burn outside in the summer?
-Soupy1957
Big Welcome Kevin, Much like you I started researching online about two years ago and found this site. My search was started because of our energy costs and lots of folks here in the Tennessee hills have big ole reliable Hardy heaters. By nature and profession I started to do research and compare cost/performance and discovered I could get dramatic improvement in efficiency without much (if any) difference in installation cost by going with an import gassification boiler. So I decided to go gassification. Read here and at nofossil's website on customer satisfaction on the big name gassification boilers (EKO, BioMass, Tarm, Econoburn, etc....). So like others here, I recommend you make that first system decision and go with a gasser then decide which one. If you intend to stay in your home for at least 5 years the gassification boiler route makes even more sense. It's like buying a 40 Hp vs 85 Hp Tractor to work a field. Both will do the job, but you'll spend far less time with the better tool. For your home you're talking about the smallest of the gasser boilers.
I'm a DIYer when at all possible and decided to do our system in stages.
Stage 1 for me (last season '09) - ignore a storage system and install the minimum wood boiler system to use as little propane as possible. That was a plenty aggressive plan since I didn't have a large supply of seasoned wood and fired up the boiler first time the day before Thanksgiving. I spent all last season learning, cutting, splittin, fixin', draggin... whew. That approach worked perfectly for me because with just the minimal system I still had lots of learning and debugging without the added complexity of getting the storage to work.
Stage 2 for me (maybe next year '11) - install the tanks and extra systems for storage. Verdict still out whether for our home and climate it will really gain me enough to justify added expense. Since we're not way up north like you, if this heating season goes well, may drop the storage. Regardless, you can delay the storage decision to minimize startup expenses.
I couldn't have heated my home last season with wood without the generous help from the guys here. Best Wishes and enjoy the learning process. BUT if you want to heat with wood this season, better get on the stick ASAP.
I'm a DIYer when at all possible and decided to do our system in stages.
Stage 1 for me (last season '09) - ignore a storage system and install the minimum wood boiler system to use as little propane as possible. That was a plenty aggressive plan since I didn't have a large supply of seasoned wood and fired up the boiler first time the day before Thanksgiving. I spent all last season learning, cutting, splittin, fixin', draggin... whew. That approach worked perfectly for me because with just the minimal system I still had lots of learning and debugging without the added complexity of getting the storage to work.
Stage 2 for me (maybe next year '11) - install the tanks and extra systems for storage. Verdict still out whether for our home and climate it will really gain me enough to justify added expense. Since we're not way up north like you, if this heating season goes well, may drop the storage. Regardless, you can delay the storage decision to minimize startup expenses.
I couldn't have heated my home last season with wood without the generous help from the guys here. Best Wishes and enjoy the learning process. BUT if you want to heat with wood this season, better get on the stick ASAP.
Welcome!
You have definitely come to the right place to find out about wood boilers. I was in the same place as you two years ago. After reading about the various systems, I also decided that there was no sense in going with a non-gasifying boiler for a new install. I did a lot of research and ended up with the EKO.
As others have stated, it is a quick and effective solution to heat without storage for the first year, but you will probably find that you want storage to improve efficiency, especially with a relatively small heat load. What I found is that if you have a smaller heat load (as I do, since house and shop are both very well insulated) is that it takes less than one load of wood in the boiler to heat the house on all but the coldest days. After that, the boiler idles and the heat is wasted up the stack. I don't know about you, but I work too hard getting and processing wood to waste it. To reduce or eliminate idling, storage is the answer. Once the house load is satisfied, the extra heat produced gets stored in the tank, and can be drawn off to heat the house once the fire has died down. Overall, less wood used and less BTUs lost up the chimney.
Even with moderate heat loads, storage is helpful; not because it improves efficiency, but because it allows you to fire the boiler on your schedule. I can't wait for the first few nights this winter when I DON'T have to get up at 3AM to reload the boiler, because the tank will be hot enough to last until 6:30 am!
My advice is to read all you can about the various boilers and installation configurations and their pros/cons. Don't forget to look at Garn, too - it is a simple and complete solution that may often get overlooked. From there, make your decision and move forward. There is always lots of willing help and advice here on the forum!
Good luck,
Ryan
You have definitely come to the right place to find out about wood boilers. I was in the same place as you two years ago. After reading about the various systems, I also decided that there was no sense in going with a non-gasifying boiler for a new install. I did a lot of research and ended up with the EKO.
As others have stated, it is a quick and effective solution to heat without storage for the first year, but you will probably find that you want storage to improve efficiency, especially with a relatively small heat load. What I found is that if you have a smaller heat load (as I do, since house and shop are both very well insulated) is that it takes less than one load of wood in the boiler to heat the house on all but the coldest days. After that, the boiler idles and the heat is wasted up the stack. I don't know about you, but I work too hard getting and processing wood to waste it. To reduce or eliminate idling, storage is the answer. Once the house load is satisfied, the extra heat produced gets stored in the tank, and can be drawn off to heat the house once the fire has died down. Overall, less wood used and less BTUs lost up the chimney.
Even with moderate heat loads, storage is helpful; not because it improves efficiency, but because it allows you to fire the boiler on your schedule. I can't wait for the first few nights this winter when I DON'T have to get up at 3AM to reload the boiler, because the tank will be hot enough to last until 6:30 am!
My advice is to read all you can about the various boilers and installation configurations and their pros/cons. Don't forget to look at Garn, too - it is a simple and complete solution that may often get overlooked. From there, make your decision and move forward. There is always lots of willing help and advice here on the forum!
Good luck,
Ryan
Thanks for the replies! I did forget to add the 8x28 porch that I framed in for living space. That puts me up to 1525' of living space. It does seem excessive that I do go through that much wood. Over the years we have gutted the place. New insulation, sheetrock, windows etc. The 2 rooms we haven't done yet are insulated but need new windows. I have a feeling my stove is probably not real efficient? We plan on staying here, and after I build the garage I will have enough blood, sweet and tears involved in everything to ever sell it!
The gasser seems the smartest way to go. The storage makes more sense to me now, I just got to put it all together in 12 months... I can see the garage floor eating lots of btu's. Would 500 in storage be enough with a gasser for heating both? I was also wondering about size of the fire box on a smaller gasser. Would you cut 16-18" wood for it that I could use also in my current indoor stove when it gets below 0 to help the boiler in heating everything? Thanks, Kevin
The gasser seems the smartest way to go. The storage makes more sense to me now, I just got to put it all together in 12 months... I can see the garage floor eating lots of btu's. Would 500 in storage be enough with a gasser for heating both? I was also wondering about size of the fire box on a smaller gasser. Would you cut 16-18" wood for it that I could use also in my current indoor stove when it gets below 0 to help the boiler in heating everything? Thanks, Kevin
First thought of 500als of storage wouldn't be enough. Need to do a heat/loss calc. Which will help determine your load and how many btu's needed.
Use your wood stove as help when it gets really cold? Does you oil boiler heat the house ok? Without the aid of the stove? I'm assuming it does, if not somethings undersized. If you can heat it with the oil unit, than a properly sized wood boiler will heat the house also. Why feed wood to 2 units? The wood Stove would be a good backup in power outages, but if it were me I would remove the stove.
Storage will give you flexibility in burns. It will save some wood, but it's been debated on here a few times on how much less wood you use. With my storage I can supply 4 or 5 days worth of DHW, in the summer, on 1 firing of boiler. And if you're a DIY kinda guy, you can easily build your own storage fairly cheap. Some people use the slab radiant as a form of storage.
You've come to the right forum for your project. Top Notch people here. Installers, tradesmen, and complete knuckleheads like myself. But it is a very good and polite bunch on here. Get a cup of coffee, and ask away.
When i priced an E-classic, it was about $12,000. You can buy an gasser, buy storage and piping to install for about that price(the install could get pricey). AND you will burn a 1/3 maybe less wood than an OWB. Wood should be split, stacked and dryed for at least a yr to get good performance.
Length of wood will be determined by what boiler you get.
Use your wood stove as help when it gets really cold? Does you oil boiler heat the house ok? Without the aid of the stove? I'm assuming it does, if not somethings undersized. If you can heat it with the oil unit, than a properly sized wood boiler will heat the house also. Why feed wood to 2 units? The wood Stove would be a good backup in power outages, but if it were me I would remove the stove.
Storage will give you flexibility in burns. It will save some wood, but it's been debated on here a few times on how much less wood you use. With my storage I can supply 4 or 5 days worth of DHW, in the summer, on 1 firing of boiler. And if you're a DIY kinda guy, you can easily build your own storage fairly cheap. Some people use the slab radiant as a form of storage.
You've come to the right forum for your project. Top Notch people here. Installers, tradesmen, and complete knuckleheads like myself. But it is a very good and polite bunch on here. Get a cup of coffee, and ask away.
When i priced an E-classic, it was about $12,000. You can buy an gasser, buy storage and piping to install for about that price(the install could get pricey). AND you will burn a 1/3 maybe less wood than an OWB. Wood should be split, stacked and dryed for at least a yr to get good performance.
Length of wood will be determined by what boiler you get.
I agree that sounds like a lot of wood for the house, I'd double check the air tightness of the house, starting with the attic and sill plate areas.
You have a pretty good situation there, that is plans to add a new garage and boiler set up designed from scratch. I like the idea of loading a wood burner from indoors so I would tend to shy away from the outdoor units. Some people burn so much wood that the outdoor units make a lot of sense, maybe it would be easier to seal up the house, get a more efficient boiler and cut less wood...
I wouldn't be bothered by the CB E series puffing a little at the start of the burn cycle, I bet most gassifiers do that if you were watching the chimney the whole time. Can anybody confirm or deny this?
Theoretically the argument could be made that storage uses more wood, but in the real world it is undeniably more efficient to burn wood "full blast" rather than smoldering, and all at once rather than on and off. Unless you're willing to feed your fire every half hour with just the right amount of wood, then storage can save you wood.
The heated slab is great for a garage workshop. It does have the major disadvantage of taking a while to heat up if you only heat it when you're working. If it's insulated underneath, even 1" it won't lose a lot of heat, but will take a lot to heat up. If you can put some tempered glass into the south facing wall you'll have passive solar gain that will keep your floor warm (at least warmer than outside) and your shop dry. If you can't find the glass now, just frame it to accept 34"x76" patio door panels (or the size of the frame if you prefer) and keep an eye out for discards.
You have a pretty good situation there, that is plans to add a new garage and boiler set up designed from scratch. I like the idea of loading a wood burner from indoors so I would tend to shy away from the outdoor units. Some people burn so much wood that the outdoor units make a lot of sense, maybe it would be easier to seal up the house, get a more efficient boiler and cut less wood...
I wouldn't be bothered by the CB E series puffing a little at the start of the burn cycle, I bet most gassifiers do that if you were watching the chimney the whole time. Can anybody confirm or deny this?
Theoretically the argument could be made that storage uses more wood, but in the real world it is undeniably more efficient to burn wood "full blast" rather than smoldering, and all at once rather than on and off. Unless you're willing to feed your fire every half hour with just the right amount of wood, then storage can save you wood.
The heated slab is great for a garage workshop. It does have the major disadvantage of taking a while to heat up if you only heat it when you're working. If it's insulated underneath, even 1" it won't lose a lot of heat, but will take a lot to heat up. If you can put some tempered glass into the south facing wall you'll have passive solar gain that will keep your floor warm (at least warmer than outside) and your shop dry. If you can't find the glass now, just frame it to accept 34"x76" patio door panels (or the size of the frame if you prefer) and keep an eye out for discards.
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