New to OWB

[CDA Dave]

I am looking at OWB's. I have an estimate in hand from a Central Boiler dealer that pushes $16K for a e-classic 2400 water to air basic system with auto ignition. I have spoken to several other dealers who bad mouth Central Boiler on service and warrantee. I am also looking at the Woodmaster Flex Fuel 60. I have about a 6000 ft2 house (extreemely well insulated- Insulated concrete forms, never falls below 45 degrees when unheated in northern Idaho) on 35 Acres of woodland. I would like to have an alternate fuel source like pellets for times when I cannot load the boiler (like vacation days).
Just looking for input. I'm not in a hurry and want to do this right.

 

[flyingcow]

welcome to the site. Be prepared to get many ideas on what you should do. OWB's are generally disliked here. But take it with a grain of salt, but the members here are a really good group with some great experience in wood burning. I suspect you'll find for the same money you will find a much better way to burn wood, and use a lot less of wood too. The no hurry part is a good thing.

 

[JP11]

Not in a hurry.. READ… and read A LOT on this site.

I could tell you why a OWB isn't a good idea, and an indoor boiler with storage is much better. But you're better off coming to your own conclusions about that.

You need to think about the WHOLE solution. If you're gonna burn wood, where are you going to get it? Sounds like you have the trees. Harvest yourself? Got the gear, time and desire to do it?

HOW are you going to handle the wood? Where to cut, buck, split, dry? Then, how to get it to wherever your boiler is. Every time you touch it, it gets more 'expensive'

How much heat do you need? I spent one winter with a hour meter on my oil boiler just to figure out what I was really using.

Lots and LOTS of information here. Get a cup of coffee and start looking around.

JP

 

[JP11]

OH.. and welcome!

You'll figure it out. Lots have. Wood takes a long time to dry. Start splitting now!

 

[flyingcow]

What do you have for a heating system now? And do you have any numbers on amount of fuel you're burning per year?

 

[BoilerMan]

To add, you said you'd like to have some type of backup like pellets. A pellet boiler is an EXPENSIVE backup option. Especially if you have bulk storage so you can go away. To be honest conventional fossil fuels are the most reliable backup, or electric resistance, remember it's backup it needs to be reliable, not the cheapest to run, that's whay you have wood!

Welcome to Hearth, we are all addicted to wood-burning!

TS

 

[__dan]

Welcome to the board.

It's been said before, but every prospective OWB buyer who comes here and gets talked out of it is counted as a save.

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[CDA Dave]

welcome to the site. Be prepared to get many ideas on what you should do. OWB's are generally disliked here. But take it with a grain of salt, but the members here are a really good group with some great experience in wood burning. I suspect you'll find for the same money you will find a much better way to burn wood, and use a lot less of wood too. The no hurry part is a good thing.

Have at me

 

[CDA Dave]

Not in a hurry.. READ… and read A LOT on this site.

I could tell you why a OWB isn't a good idea, and an indoor boiler with storage is much better. But you're better off coming to your own conclusions about that.

You need to think about the WHOLE solution. If you're gonna burn wood, where are you going to get it? Sounds like you have the trees. Harvest yourself? Got the gear, time and desire to do it?

HOW are you going to handle the wood? Where to cut, buck, split, dry? Then, how to get it to wherever your boiler is. Every time you touch it, it gets more 'expensive'

How much heat do you need? I spent one winter with a hour meter on my oil boiler just to figure out what I was really using.

Lots and LOTS of information here. Get a cup of coffee and start looking around.

JP

Yea, I got trees. Plan to continue using my Bobcat to haul, but thinking about adding an inverted skid-steer splitter to save the ol' back. I have a good woodshed, holds about 8 cords. I have been burning about 5 cords in my Quadrafire 7100FP for the past few years. It's small and needs frequent tending. I am looking hard at the Woodmaster Flex Fuel. They claim great efficiency and the EPA emissions are the lowest on the chart. Of course it's an indoor unit. I talked with one of their tech people and he said they are working on an outdoor Flex Unit, but couldn't/wouldn't give any prediction on when they would be able to sell them. The outdoor thing is mainly my wife, tired of the dust and all. Also suspicious that she is a bit sadistic though...
If I go with the Woodmaster, I have a prelim plan to buy a tank, maybe a 1000 gallon poly, spray it with urethane foam and bury it under the site where I will build an outbuilding for the Woodmaster. Heat loss would then at least help dry things in the outbuilding. Thinking of making the outbuilding a combo woodshed, and pellet bin. In regards the tank, anyone know if a polyethylene tank would be an oxygen problem?

 

[CDA Dave]

What do you have for a heating system now? And do you have any numbers on amount of fuel you're burning per year?

I have a heat pump which is inadequate (runs on emergency heat- resistance, most of the time). No I don't have any useful numbers on the resistance. I heat with wood > 95% of the time. Only use the heat pump in late spring and early fall for a short time while it is still too warm to use the Quadrafire.

 

[CDA Dave]

To add, you said you'd like to have some type of backup like pellets. A pellet boiler is an EXPENSIVE backup option. Especially if you have bulk storage so you can go away. To be honest conventional fossil fuels are the most reliable backup, or electric resistance, remember it's backup it needs to be reliable, not the cheapest to run, that's whay you have wood!

Welcome to Hearth, we are all addicted to wood-burning!

TS

To be honest, cost is not the only factor. I like the idea of being independent of the polecats (I hate utility poles, they so deface the country- and no I'm NOT a tree hugger). Actually wood chips are a strong possibility for me. I'm looking into chippers now.

 

[CDA Dave]

OH.. and welcome!

You'll figure it out. Lots have. Wood takes a long time to dry. Start splitting now!

OH- and thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[BoilerMan]

Are you off grid?

TS

 

[CDA Dave]

No, I have access (underground), but it's famously unreliable. You might say I'm at the edge of the Grid. I am installing a 16 KW Outback Radian system with 125 thin film panels. Hope to have it partly operable by spring.

 

[flyingcow]

FYI

My indoor boiler is located in an unattached garage, now classified as a wood shed. My storage is located in my basement. I was using 1000 gals of oil yr round. I replaced that with 6.5 cord of well seasoned wood. I have a family of 5 that puts a fairly decent dent in the DHW use.

Have you heard of this? http://www.garn.com/ Storage and boiler all in one. Put radiant floor or better yet low temp radiators/emmiters and you'll have a nice set up.

Also, I stack my wood on pallets and move into garage with a FEL. I only stack my wood once and handle with the tractor after that. Woeks good, if you got a bob cat skid steer this would work well. I leave my pallets outdoors for at least a yr.

 

[maple1]

I would be very leery of combining hot water and a poly tank.

Since you seem to be talking about the electric side of things, and unreliable electricity - well, I just have to bring this up.

Would a gassifier that runs on natural draft (no fans at all) be a consideration? You'd need a tall chimney, and likely a basement installation, and storage. I'll stop there for now.

 

[flyingcow]

maple1 may be onto something.

 

[salecker]

Hi CDA Dave
Just want to clear one thing up.
OWB groups a lot of units together.It mostly refers to Central Boiler type stoves.The Central Boilers aren't really boilers.They are unpressurized system so should be referred to as an OWS outdoor wood stove.
I have an Outdoor Econoburn,which is a pressurized system,in my case the outdoor unit ended up in it's own building with storage.I also have my backup oil boiler in the same building.Our reasons for having our complete system in it's own building are.....
Safety no chance of fire or carbon monoxide in our home.
Cleanliness, no smoke,ash dust or bugs in our home
Health,both my wife and daughter have Asthma.
Room,our system would use up a bunch of our basement,at the moment we are still living in our basement.
This is the third year of burning in our system,we rarely find a reason that makes us wish we had it in our home.Another plus when we are finished our house i will have a nice warm Man Cave.
Thomas

 

[Jayf19]

I could tell you why a OWB isn't a good idea, and an indoor boiler with storage is much better. But you're better off coming to your own conclusions about that.

JP

I'm in the same boat as the OP, I thought I had come to the conclusion that OWB (gasification) was the way to go, and I haven't found any information indicating me why I should think otherwise... would you mind sharing why you don't think it's a good idea, or pointing me to articles that could enlighten me?

Thanks!

 

[MarkW]

That's a great video! I love him lighting the flue gasses. Nuff said, right?

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[maple1]

I'm in the same boat as the OP, I thought I had come to the conclusion that OWB (gasification) was the way to go, and I haven't found any information indicating me why I should think otherwise... would you mind sharing why you don't think it's a good idea, or pointing me to articles that could enlighten me?

Thanks!

There's no right answer - everyones situation & priorities are different. Generally, the main advantage that an IWB & storage has is that any heat loss (OWBs lose some heat to the atmosphere no matter how well they're insulated) is lost to a space where it will be used. And if set up properly, won't idle. Both of which lead to decreased wood consumption & increased efficiency, and the latter making for very clean burns & no creosote. That has to be weighed against all the other factors for & against and how they apply to you - don't think I'll go any further. Just do all the reading you can here, make like a sponge, and take full stock of your present & future situations & priorities.

 

[MarkW]

Jay
We're not refering to gassifiers when referencing OWB. It's the fire-in-a-barrel burners that are most often refered to OWB, though some gassers are now coming in their own "shed" so would techincally fit into the OWB catergory.

 

[MarkW]

Yeah, what he said...Maple typing faster than me

 

[JP11]

It's not the amount of heat that the OWBs CLAIM to put out.

It's the amount of losses before you get that heat into your envelope. I have a neighbor with a OWB. He could do better with better wood techniques.. but he burns about 50% more wood than me, for half the house size, set on lower temps.

I get it, some people want the dust outside. Realize you are giving up A LOT of losses to do it. I don't care how much fiberglass they wind around that thing… you're losing a bunch of heat.

JP

 

[Jayf19]

Thanks for the replies and sorry for hijacking the thread!

I'm still trying to figure out what would work best for my situation, still have a lot of reading to do, but so far I'm leaning towards either an outdoor gasifier, or an indoors gasifier setup in the garage (which runs approximately 300 feet from the house - I doubt this would be a smart move considering the heat loss involved in moving the water from the house to the garage).