New Jotul Oslo defects, experience, and observations

[Nepa]

Hello all, I am new to the forums and I have been browsing it over the past few months to help me in making some decisions with stoves. I have had so many issues recently. I must say what an educated group of people there are in this forum. You have helped me by learning through others experiences. I'm hoping to ask for some advice and hopefully offer some to others after reading how these problems have been resolved.

Some brief history. I now live in Northeast Pennsylvania. Just moved here from Colorado. Previously I had a quadra fire freestanding stove (I forget the model) that I used and loved for about 12 years. So I know how to work a fire.

When I moved to this ranch house, It had two stoves already in it. Each floor is about 1800 square feet. The main floor had a really old kodiak insert coal stove rusted to all heck and downstairs was a small freestanding vermont castings soapstone somewhat undersized.

I had the rock chimney rebuilt from the roofline up and the rest of it repointed. It has two 13x13 clay liners. I had them install two 6" double walled insulated liners for each of the runs. One is 16' to the first floor and 32' to the basement.

I replaced the coal stove with a Harmon Accentra 52i pellet stove. Amazing stove. Really just amazing.
I love the ease of use, the automation, everything. Heats up the entire floor, around corners, to a comfortable 72-74 degrees. Wonderful.

In the basement I replaced the vermont castings wood stove with a Quadrafire 5100i Insert. That's when the fun began.

It looked great, but I had a very hard time starting and maintaining a fire. Opened windows, doors, heck, I even cut a hole in the ceiling and ran a pipe up to the attic to draw some more air into the room. No help. Wet wood they said. (they love that excuse) Hardly. 3 years seasoned, sitting in a pile. Light as cork. My dealer refused to replace the stove. They wanted to add a draft kit to the harmon upstairs first to see if that would alleviate the "negative pressure" in the home overall. $400 Then if that didn't work, they would try to add the draft kit to the Quadrafire (more difficult) $800 to see if that would do the trick. I felt I was getting swindled. I refused.

After some really loud vibration issues and them replacing the blower twice, the dealer finally acknowledged something was up with the stove. He said he was going to pull it, send it to his welder to bend and reweld some loose metal "fins" underneath the firebox. It was then I reached out to the manufacturer DIRECTLY and they agreed to take it back and refund my $. I must say that the customer support hearthandhome extended to me was fantastic. I dealt with very understanding woman who enabled me to circumvent my dealer issue. Kudos.

I didn't care for the blackening side windows the model had, or the crumbly vermiculite baffle they used. The ceramic blanket was a royal pita to put back contrary to the instructional video they provided that makes it look as easy as sliding your foot into an old leather shoe.

Anywho, After visiting 5 other dealerships and doing as much research as I possibly could, I found out that other users were having draft issues with that stove. One guy ended up yanking the ceramic blanket to solve his problem. So besides not having a good fire, and seemingly not enough heat output, I opted to go freestanding after reading many different opinions both here and on youtube comparing the 2 varieties.

I also wanted the biggest stove possible using a 6" liner (at least 3.0 cubic feet to match the seemingly underperforming quadrafire.) I had it down to a Hearthstone and a Jotul. My problem was also in having to accept the fact that I had to use a rear venting stove that I've never had any practical experience with. I was nervous that maybe it wasn't the stove at all causing my burn problem.

I opted for the Jotul 500 because of the reviews, it looked nice, and was as big as I could go in keeping a rear vented 6" flue with a 42" wide 30" high fireplace opening. I really wanted the 600 but it wouldnt fit..bummer. I love the look of the soapstone but I read about it having a soft heat, and was hesitant, wanting as much radiant output as possible.

The good part is that I do not have a drafting issue, AHA! and my gut feeling was correct. No problems starting or maintaining a fire, although it just doesn't seem to heat the space well enough. As crummy as the quadrafire was able, with 3.0 cubic feet, and the fans blowing on high, it kept the room about 68. The jotul at 2.54 cubic feet and 600 degrees with the blower on high has yet to hit 69. I really want the 72-74 range. So I'm not overly impressed so far.

I am disappointed with the fan. For the money, you would think this thing would put out some cfm. It's all but a trickle and blows heavier on one side more than the other. My dealer says that's as good as it gets but would double check with jotul and get back to me. Thats was two weeks ago. yeah. right. thanks.

After going through the stinky curing process (really now, invest in some better paint, quadrafire's curing wasn't near as bad) I had the stove up to 600 and noticed after loading it up in the dark before I went to bed, that there was a glow coming out from one of the rear corners.

I let the stove cool down began shoveling out the ash. My grating doesn't sit flush and my shovel hits the edge preventing me from reaching all the way to the back (quite annoying) So I had to use a dustpan instead and then cleaned the remainder with my ash vac. I removed the firebrick from the back. When I did, I found a washer! Yes, it seems they forgot to put one on and were kind enough to leave it for me underneath one of the bricks. I also found two small "pockmarks" or holes if you will, behind the firebrick on the iron backing.

One, I'm afraid if I take the bolt off and reinstall the washer where it belongs I'll further crack some of their factory cement seal. making it worse.

Two, There are small holes in the iron! Theoretical weak points just waiting to crack and spread. Can it be filled with something as strong to guarantee it won't spread?

Three, The space in the back right, can it be filled with their industrial cement to repair it or maybe something isn't sitting right by not having the washer in place, causing it to go out of whack?

Four, What's the deal with the fan? 120 CFM is terrible. Is it replaceable with something stronger?

I haven't reached out to the dealer yet. I want to hear what the pros think first. ; P

Thanks gents!

 

[begreen]

The last shot is the most troubling. First question the dealer will probably ask is how often has the fire been started with the ash pan door open?

 

[defiant3]

Before doing anything, I would be certain to document the problems (as yo have) then convey all that to the dealer and perhaps to Jotul USA as well. Doing ANYTHING may provide a reason to void a warranty claim, so go by the book. My opinion as a service tech. is that there was an assembly issue.

No matter what you may have done or not done, there's simply no way that you could cause that seam to be compromised that way even if you wanted to. It just appears to not have been sealed properly when assembled.

Frankly, a squirt of cement into that seam would probably take care of it, and the washer could be on there or not but I'd want the dealer to take care of that to avoid warranty issues.

 

[Nepa]

Thanks, guys, I've never burned it with the ash pan open. I've emailed the dealer with the photos. I just got the stove just 2-3 weeks ago, I saw the problem but have been too busy to follow up let alone use it regularly. After the curing process, I used all of 3 times.

When I cured it, I was ultra careful with the process and the doubled the amount of times per burn. 2x@200 F, 2x@300 F 2x@400F.

In the manual, it shows ideal placement areas as any one of the 4 corners for a magnetic stove thermometer. I bought a new one (close to 25F accurate) and also used a UEI INF165 infrared thermometer.

What's odd is that towards the center plate the temperatures were about double that of the corners. I always read that stoves weren't supposed to go over 600, the UEI maxes out at 700 so I don't know exactly how hot it got. It didn't turn red, but still peculiar that there was such a major difference just a few inches away.

During the times I used it, it did seem to burn wood a bit quicker than usual, and I read elsewhere other users had the same issue. I never noticed that on any of the other reviews until i started googling more intensely. Any Feedback on that? I'm gonna shoot myself if I find out I should have gotten the hearthstone afterall. It hate it when my wife is right...

 

[xman23]

That doesn't look like mine. Is this a stove or a insert?

 

[begreen]

Before doing anything, I would be certain to document the problems (as yo have) then convey all that to the dealer and perhaps to Jotul USA as well. Doing ANYTHING may provide a reason to void a warranty claim, so go by the book. My opinion as a service tech. is that there was an assembly issue.

No matter what you may have done or not done, there's simply no way that you could cause that seam to be compromised that way even if you wanted to. It just appears to not have been sealed properly when assembled.

Frankly, a squirt of cement into that seam would probably take care of it, and the washer could be on there or not but I'd want the dealer to take care of that to avoid warranty issues.

Good advice. That light leak should not be.
The F500 is a good, time tested stove. Get it right and you should be happy with your selection.

 

[claydogg84]

I'm sure Jotul will take care of what looks to be an assembly issue. As far as the fan is concerned, you should have purchased a convection style stove if you intended to use a fan. While adding fans to purely radiant style stoves is an option, it isn't nearly as effective as convection.

 

[Nepa]

That doesn't look like mine. Is this a stove or a insert?

Thats a freestanding stove, The Jotul 500 Oslo.

 

[Nepa]

The last shot is the most troubling. First question the dealer will probably ask is how often has the fire been started with the ash pan door open?

Never burned with the ash door open. No need to! I'm guessing the space in the stove is an air leak and is what gave me such easy, and maybe too fast) burns! and I agree, it is what is most troubling, and still no response or opinions on that one. Not an Assembly issue. More like a defect in the Iron. Can someone say REPLACEMENT!

 

[Nepa]

I'm sure Jotul will take care of what looks to be an assembly issue. As far as the fan is concerned, you should have purchased a convection style stove if you intended to use a fan. While adding fans to purely radiant style stoves is an option, it isn't nearly as effective as convection.

Clarify please. My goal is to heat the space. I heard radiant was "stronger' or more effective in distributing heat than convection. I thought that by adding the fan option it would help to distribute the heat. Apparently a $500 mistake.

 

[claydogg84]

Clarify please. My goal is to heat the space. I heard radiant was "stronger' or more effective in distributing heat than convection. I thought that by adding the fan option it would help to distribute the heat. Apparently a $500 mistake.

Jotul makes convection stoves which are steel inside, a small air gap, and then a cast iron outter jacket. The fan on these style stoves blows air through that air gap which is much more effective than simply blowing air past a radiant stove. I'm not saying the fan on your Oslo isn't doing anything, but it's simply not as effective as the other option.

 

[Nepa]

Jotul makes convection stoves which are steel inside, a small air gap, and then a cast iron outter jacket. The fan on these style stoves blows air through that air gap which is much more effective than simply blowing air past a radiant stove. I'm not saying the fan on your Oslo isn't doing anything, but it's simply not as effective as the other option.

I see

 

[defiant3]

I've actually pulled stoves apart that are 20, 30 even 40 years old with small defects in their castings that have never developed into problems. Especially true on enameled parts once the enamel has been sandblasted off. Apparently enameling covers ths up quite well. Anyway, not saying "Don't worry", but those pockmarks may or may not be problematic. If you get the stove replaced, great. If not, just keep an eye on that casting. 3 year warranty isn't it? If it's gonna fail, that should be sufficient time.

Open seam definately needs a fix ASAP though.

 

[Nepa]

I've actually pulled stoves apart that are 20, 30 even 40 years old with small defects in their castings that have never developed into problems. Especially true on enameled parts once the enamel has been sandblasted off. Apparently enameling covers ths up quite well. Anyway, not saying "Don't worry", but those pockmarks may or may not be problematic. If you get the stove replaced, great. If not, just keep an eye on that casting. 3 year warranty isn't it? If it's gonna fail, that should be sufficient time.

Open seam definately needs a fix ASAP though.

Good to know, thanks, I would be happier with a replacement just to be safe, no sense I should have to settle for mediocrity.

 

[kennyp2339]

Your 32ft chimney @ 6" is causing too much draft, causing air to be pulled through your closed ash pan draw, the reason why the stove isn't over firing is because the heat is being sucked out just as fast, I would recommend going with a 8" flue to a 6" reducer at the stove to slow the volume of air.

 

[Nepa]

Your 32ft chimney @ 6" is causing too much draft, causing air to be pulled through your closed ash pan draw, the reason why the stove isn't over firing is because the heat is being sucked out just as fast, I would recommend going with a 8" flue to a 6" reducer at the stove to slow the volume of air.

Interesting, being that with the quadrafire installed, I didn't have enough draft. They even wanted to install an air kit. and if that didn't work, raise the stack. So I understand your theory. I appreciate the suggestion, but in my mind, the air control should be available through the stove. Granted if I find I can't manage it, I was thinking about the hearthstone equinox 8000. It could theoretically kill two birds with one stone.

Is there a way to measure draft quantifiably? A device of sorts?

 

[kennyp2339]

yes, a draft meter, they are expensive, I would see if your dealer has one and have them test it out and compare the readings to the stove makers specs, also I would do this when it gets colder outside, that's when draft picks up the most.

 

[Nepa]

How about something like this. Effective? only 40 bucks

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0039OHLVK/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[kennyp2339]

the dwyer series 25 manometer will work fine to

 

[weatherguy]

If your draft is too strong a simple key damper will solve that problem. If your thinking of soapstone check out woodstocks line.

 

[branchburner]

32ft chimney @ 6" is causing too much draft, causing air to be pulled through your closed ash pan draw

You seem to be saying that at a certain chimney height a gasketed and fairly airtight seal ceases to be airtight. I have to wonder, at what chimney height does this become the case, and what volume of air might be pulled through that sealed door for each additional foot of chimney height? Why would the additional draft be pulling air through a sealed door and not just pulling more air through the existing primary and secondary air passages?