With the new EPA regulations coming into effect I heard that there was supposed to be a lot of wood gasification boiler manufacturers driven out of business. From a brief check of my old links they still appear to be in business and selling their wood burning products, even without receiving EPA approval as of Jan. 01/16. New Horizon, Wood Gun, Varmebaronen, Vigas, Effecta have no qualified wood boilers according to the EPA list but they continue to sell. What's up with that?
New EPA Regulations
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Maybe they are trying to go under the radar for as long as possible. Or maybe they are just paying fines. It's hard telling with companies that are fairly large with some money to throw around.
StihlKicking
Feeling the Heat
maple1
Minister of Fire
Can't answer the question.
But I think I would have to say, that if this EPA 'thing' had caused all those boilers to stop being made & sold, then there was something wrong with that 'thing'. These are clean burners - I think my oil boiler put more soot in my chimney than my new wood boiler.
But I think I would have to say, that if this EPA 'thing' had caused all those boilers to stop being made & sold, then there was something wrong with that 'thing'. These are clean burners - I think my oil boiler put more soot in my chimney than my new wood boiler.
I will ask the folks from Effecta to jump in and respond. My understanding is that Effecta ( and I would imagine most good gassification boilers) exceed the EPA requirements. If there is some special certification or something they are supposed to have, I have no idea about that.
Karl_northwind
Minister of Fire
If I remember correctly, units that met the current EPA regulations below a certain level (can't remember the level) are grandfathered in for a while. I know most of the european units with storage easily met the cutoff criteria, as did the Heatmaster and GARN units we sell.
Not without undergoing the new EPA testing procedure which I understand is quite expensive. If I'm not mistaken unless the new EPA Phase ? stamp is on the boiler or it doesn't appear on their list of approved units it shouldn't be legal to purchase or sell. It seems risky to purchase a new unit at this time that could be banned from use if there was ever a local government crack down. This only applies to new boilers, older ones are already grandfathered in.
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Bad LP
Minister of Fire
If I had the coins I would be buying one anyway.
Screw the EPA and what they think on these units that were passing the regs until the bastards changed the goal line.
Screw the EPA and what they think on these units that were passing the regs until the bastards changed the goal line.
I don't disagree with you but it is the certification required by law nationwide, so you could be gambling with a $10,000 purchase.
Been lurking a while, absorbing so much great info from you guys! Thanks! I am looking to pull the trigger on a gassifier in the spring and just stumbled across this. I will be following this for sure. I did notice that Wood Gun only has the one EPA model, but as far as I can tell they are still selling the others.
I'm thinking of running gassifier tours, price of admission will be a bottle or decent (or better) red wine
. Let me know if you ever want to see an installed system.That seems to be the case with a lot of them, some models are certified but not all. Greater concern is that some companies don't have any on the list. I'm shopping as well so just want to understand the risks and options fully.
StihlKicking
Feeling the Heat
The companies were allowed to make the old style boilers up until May of 2015. If you can find a new unit manufactured prior to this date they are grandfathered in and still legal to buy/use. I just bought a new hardy H2 yesterday straight from the manufacturer. It was the last one they made prior to the new EPA regulation.
StihlKicking
Feeling the Heat
maple1
Minister of Fire
I'm thinking of running gassifier tours, price of admission will be a bottle or decent (or better) red wine
I'm open to tours too - have given a couple. I won't be too picky though - a box of wine will get you in the door here.
I'm open to tours too - have given a couple. I won't be too picky though - a box of wine will get you in the door here.
A trip to Nova Scotia to visit a boiler, that could be a fun trip!I'm thinking of running gassifier tours, price of admission will be a bottle or decent (or better) red wine
Ha! That'd be great john! Looks like you're pretty close to my work too. I'll hit u up some time. Would be great to see a system first hand!
My biggest fear would be getting it installed and the town inspector showing up and saying no go... that would suck! I know CT was a big part of the push for the tighter epa regs. But this might be a locality thing as sometimes they don't adopt the new regs right away. Definitely going to do my homework.
Sounds good. I would suggest you do your research on your own (via a manufacturer, good dealer, EPA rule,etc.), I am not confident that the Town Inspector will have an accurate understanding of the Regs. My inspection was kind of funny because the Inspector really had no idea what he was looking at. I never bothered to tell him that the boiler was actually connected to 1000 gal of water, etc. I gave him the spec sheet that showed positioning of the boiler relative to walls, etc., it gave him something to feel good about and seemed to make everyone happy. In his defense he may have been preoccupied with the 16x24 barn that he couldn't seem to find on my plot plan
.Ok guys the first round of epa regs that applied to wood stoves but furnaces were exempt has greatly improved the performance and efficiency of wood stoves. I am sure that it will do the same for furnaces as well. As a pro i can tell you that the majority of furnaces out there need some improvement. The chimneys they are attached to are generally much worse than ones with wood stoves running through them. We do have a few customers with furnaces that do a very good job and have very good setups. But most do not. Stop fighting it and embrace the fact that the furnaces will get better with these regulations. And by the way the manufacturers knew this was coming a long time ago so if they dont have compliant products they have no one to blame but themselves
Bad LP
Minister of Fire
Good luck to anyone wanting to take it away or ordering me to stop using it. I don't say that in a threatening sort of way.
No worries, everything out that has been grandfathered in. I would only be concerned if I was buying something new and and needed to get it permitted (which I felt was critical so the insurance company could not use that against me in case of ANY kind of disaster here). As others have posted it then becomes an issue of when it was manufactured.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Buzz Saw
Minister of Fire
I was just on smokelessheat.com and they have a big disclaimer about EPA testing and until approval sales are frozen for residential use.
Thanks for that link, that is the information that I was looking for and it's nice to see this Manufacturer honestly stepping up to address the issue. What about the other manufacturers??? Hope you don't mind but I think it would be helpful to others in the market for a new wood boiler to post the response here.
-for US customers- The new EPA regulations are in effect as of 1-1-2016 so we only have some used and demonstration wood boiler models still available for sale until the new tests are completed. Also any of our wood boilers that are used for a commercial install can still be legally sold new as the NSPS only affects residential use. Our Pellmax UB pellet boiler is on the NYSERTA and EPA list of approved boilers.
The method by which most of the pellet boilers appear on the EPA approved list is: The new EPA rule approves all the boilers that were approved with NYSERTA’s renewable heat program. That is the method we used for the Pellmax UB.
We began the process many months ago with the hope that all approvals would be finished by 2016. We had indications from correspondence with EPA in 2015 that after the laboratory being used received their approval by the the EPA as an accredited laboratory, the laboratory would be able to submit already performed EN-303 tests for consideration, however the EPA has very recently informed this lab they have decided not to consider prior test results. The Vedolux wood boilers will need all new tests performed by the approved lab. This will take some more time but we will continue to remain in business while this is happening.
The Vedolux boilers we sell were made for cord wood and thermal storage. What had been the official test method for hydronic boilers was designed for primarily for outdoor wood boilers was not a workable option. A new test method for boilers using thermal storage and cord wood as fuel was announced with the publication of the EPA NSPS in May 2015. Since this test method is so new, labs are only very recently able to perform this test. A few US labs were unwilling at first to even offer quotes for this new test. That left our european imported boilers designed for thermal storage at a distinct disadvantage. There wasn’t a good viable EPA approved option prior to this time and consequently the ability to get grand-fathered in, like many of the current boilers that appear on EPA wood boiler approved list. And considering the rule was announced in May 2015, it only allowed about a half year to make everything fall in place by Jan 2016. All our boilers have lower emissions than the current .32lb per million BTU when we convert the en-303 lab results. This emissions rate limit is required for all new residential boilers being sold now. The EPA has informed us we can not use these previously performed tests to get current EPA recognition. Varmebaronen and SmokeLess Heat are committed to the US marketplace and have plans to have their wood boiler product line EPA approved as soon as possible. The first boilers to be approved will be the Vedolux Lambda because those tests results should be able to meet stricter the 2020 limits.
The new EPA rule now in place and it appears this is effectively removing some of the the very cleanest burning products to an unavailable status in the residential market in the near term.
This is how we understand the conditions we find ourselves in and how our business is working toward getting EPA approvals for the wood boiler product line.
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