New BlazeKing struggles to remain in Active Zone

[sepidpooy]

We have a new BlazeKing Ashford 25 insert, installed yesterday. Today I test it and have a hard time to keep the CAT in the active zone. I was wondering to hear the opinion of experts in here.

I load it up with quality seasoned hardwood (see in pictures) after the first curing fire. I set the thermostat to high and it barely remains in active zone regardless of having flaming wood or all red hot charcoal.

We have a 25' chimney liner (SS, flexible) inside our masonry chimney. I don't know the moisture content of my firewood but it was covered sitting outside for at least two years.

I was hoping to use this stove for long burns but can't do that when the thermostat is set to HIGH to keep the CAT in active zone.

 

[aansorge]

The answer is probably the wood. If you just purchased the stove, I would suggest the retailer from which you purchased it from come and run a load of wood through it with some dry wood that they have and see if the problem persists.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

From the position of the needle in your picture, I think your cat is active, and that’s all that needle is going to do. Blaze King doesn’t use a thermometer for the cat on this insert. If the cat is inactive, the needle should be all the way to the left. If the cat is active, it swings to the right, but it doesn’t keep going up farther into the active zone. Since you’re right there at the border, your cat is active.

I don’t own one of these inserts, but the question has come up several times, at least once quite recently. There are a couple of threads on it, but I don’t have time to dig them up right now. Your question is a good one, but I think your concern is unfounded.

It sounds as though you know that your wood is seasoned properly. It seems as though your cat is working just fine, so go ahead and adjust the thermostat to where the stove is giving you the heat you want. You should be able to turn it down for long burns if the low heat output is what you want.

 

[Dieselhead]

I second what daue posted, that indicator is more of a on-off switch, it looks on from here. When it’s in the active zone, hows the top of your stack look? Any rolling smoke?

 

[broadhead]

When you get it raging with flames, does your cat glow? Once I get good flames and the cat is glowing I flip the thermostat down to about 2 o’clock and turn the blower to low to 3 o’clock at most. When you turn down it will build more heat and you will see your indicator rise. Make sure you are packing this with wood with as little space as possible. Give it a shot. These are great stoves and that enamel looks great. You will figure it out. 25’ stack is great for these.

 

[BKVP]

Two very important notes here:

1) Whether or not the cat glowing does not indicate if it is working or not. Go outside and look up at the stack. When cats glow it is because a tremendous amount of gases are pooled up in front of the combustor. I can make a cat glow with a baseball size piece of charred wood just by breaking it up and shutting the door. All the gases being released cause the reaction observed as glowing.

2) The thermometer on the SC25 and AF25 are in fact a switch as indicated. Once the combustor hits 550F the thermometer "switches" on and the needle rises to around 12-1 o'clock referencing a clock face. If it drops below 550F, then it switches.

Was the liner that was installed insulated? If so, then I second the idea of the fuel not being as dry as you might like. (or the stove might like). An easy check for this is to run to a fireplace shop and get a small bundle of process fuel logs or bricks. (BioBricks and North Idaho Energy logs being the big names in the category).

If they burn hot and cat stays active, then likely fuel MC is the issue. Your stack is plenty long. Also check to see if the cap has a spark arrestor screen. If it does, then....well clean it.

BKVP

 

[sepidpooy]

2) The thermometer on the SC25 and AF25 are in fact a switch as indicated. Once the combustor hits 550F the thermometer "switches" on and the needle rises to around 12-1 o'clock referencing a clock face. If it drops below 550F, then it switches.

Thank you for your response. I did no know this.

Was the liner that was installed insulated?

No, they used Olympia Hybrid 316L-Alloy Stainless Steel Liner. They did not put a new chimney top and the liner is kind of lose on the top between the masonry chimney walls. They will come again to install the chimney top.

They also had to remove the interior masonry wall of the firebox to fit the insert in (see the picture).
The exterior wall has some cracks here or there and the liner is not sealed on the top. Therefore, we have outside cold air leaks into the house from the sides of the fireplace surround. What should I do to stop the cold air draft into the house when the fireplace is not used ?

I was thinking to stick some insulation inside the firebox or at least behind the surround.

 

[BKVP]

We need more input on the install from @bholler
When are they returning? Who is they?

BKVP

 

[sepidpooy]

When are they returning? Who is they?

Star Bright Chimney, no appoitment is scheduled yet. I guess they are waiting for the part delivery from BK. The surround got chipped during the install so they need to replace it. My dealer (Rob's Country) said the black part of the surround (s.Z2091) is on back-order and he don't know when BK can get that to us.

Would you be able to give us some estimate for shipping of this back-ordered part ?

I have also noticed the door is not sealed. May I ask you please to share info about fixing this door? Here is the dollar bill test :

 

[BKVP]

We are definitely a bit behind on the 2091 shrouds. Hopefully we will get them in the next couple of weeks and can UPS to the dealer. They are powder coated and our vendor is way behind due to material shortage.

Try the dollar bill test across the top or bottom and handle has to be cam (past detent) prior to testing. You can see, looking into the cavity where the door latch extends when latched, two nuts. The can be loosened very, very slightly and the bracket can be moved back a bit increasing tension. You may wish to have the dealer perform this for you,

You said you are getting cold air through the back wall of the masonry? I think that needs to addressed both inside and outside, but not being a mason, I will defer to others. You also do not have any flashing on top or an actual cap, so that needs to be addressed as well.

Given this is on an exterior wall, you may wish to speak to them about an insulated blanket being added to the liner. It will do two things, first help hold what little heat loss there is in the stack, which helps with draft. Also, NFPA 211 requires a 1" clearance to combustibles from the brick chimney. The way this is confirmed is a level 2 inspection. If you have a insulated liner, you have not problem meeting the requirement.

There are a few sweeps on this site that are very knowledgeable. bholler is one of them. I hope he chimes in on this install.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

While discussing insulating the chimney liner, ask about having a block-off plate installed in the damper area. That will notably improve heat output.

 

[sepidpooy]

Try the dollar bill test across the top or bottom and handle has to be cam (past detent) prior to testing. You can see, looking into the cavity where the door latch extends when latched, two nuts. The can be loosened very, very slightly and the bracket can be moved back a bit increasing tension. You may wish to have the dealer perform this for you,

The dealer said the installer would be able to do this since they need to take the surround out for this purpose. Is that the case ? I guess I should have wait for the surround delivery for a couple of weeks until this is getting fixed.

You said you are getting cold air through the back wall of the masonry? I think that needs to addressed both inside and outside, but not being a mason, I will defer to others. You also do not have any flashing on top or an actual cap, so that needs to be addressed as well.

They did not remove the old chimney cap that was there (see the left cap in the attached picture) However, the cap only blocks water coming into the chimney. It does not sear around the chimney liner. Previously I had a chimney bypass in the firebox that would stop the cold draft coming into the house. Now there is no bypass and interior wall of the firebox is gone.

Honestly, I don't know where is cold air is coming, the chimney structure is about 30' and exterior wall small gaps between the bricks on the top.

Given this is on an exterior wall, you may wish to speak to them about an insulated blanket being added to the liner. It will do two things, first help hold what little heat loss there is in the stack, which helps with draft. Also, NFPA 211 requires a 1" clearance to combustibles from the brick chimney. The way this is confirmed is a level 2 inspection. If you have a insulated liner, you have not problem meeting the requirement.

Do they need to take out the current liner to insulate it ? I asked the installed if he is going to install a insulated liner but he said those is only used on very cold places like mountains. In our area (Seattle) we don't need it.

 

[sepidpooy]

While discussing insulating the chimney liner, ask about having a block-off plate installed in the damper area. That will notably improve heat output.

that is a great idea. Do you know where I can order those ? Is that custom made for each chimney size ?

 

[BKVP]

The dealer said the installer would be able to do this since they need to take the surround out for this purpose. Is that the case ? I guess I should have wait for the surround delivery for a couple of weeks until this is getting fixed.


They did not remove the old chimney cap that was there (see the left cap in the attached picture) However, the cap only blocks water coming into the chimney. It does not sear around the chimney liner. Previously I had a chimney bypass in the firebox that would stop the cold draft coming into the house. Now there is no bypass and interior wall of the firebox is gone.
View attachment 319260
Honestly, I don't know where is cold air is coming, the chimney structure is about 30' and exterior wall small gaps between the bricks on the top.


Do they need to take out the current liner to insulate it ? I asked the installed if he is going to install a insulated liner but he said those is only used on very cold places like mountains. In our area (Seattle) we don't need it.

Within our Owner's & Installation Guide, we recommend in numerous locations to use an insulated liner. To insluate, yes they would have to pull it, wrap it and drop it back down.

BKVP

 

[begreen]

that is a great idea. Do you know where I can order those ? Is that custom made for each chimney size ?

They are usually custom-made and fitted on-site. It helps to make a cardboard template first. For existing liner installations it's often easier to do this with two overlapping pieces.

Make a damper sealing block off plate

Should fireplace inserts and hearth stoves have a metal sealing plate installed at the Damper area? Here is the simple answer. It is almost impossible to correctly seal most insert panels to the fireplace front. A lot of air can get through them...

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