MT Vernon AE battery backup

[dmathieu]

I have a direct vented MT Vernon AE, which means if I loss power I will get smoke in my house.

For that reason I would like to get a battery backup system. I am assuming that the Quadra-Fire backup solution communicates with the Pellet Stove and tells it to shut down when the battery is low. Is that correct?

I work at APC so I would like to use one of our UPSs. My concern with using an APC UPS is that if I loss power when I am not home the battery will eventually drain and the stove will not shutdown properly.

Any thought?

Thanks
Dave

 

[TboneMan]

Since you work at APC, you might want to check with one of your engineers. Actually APC's website as a pretty good calculator.

It looks like the Quadra MV draws 1.25amps (assuming it is not relighting). For argument sake call it 140 watts. The calculator on the APC site projects 440 minutes of run time with a APC Smart-UPS XL 750VA. Mind you that's a server class UPS, but if you get an employee discount it might be affordable.


I had a smoking episode last year shortly after having my stove installed. I hadn't got around to getting a UPS, but I had plans to. Needless to say, I went out the next day and bought one. Mind you it was a low end ($100 ish) 750VA unit. I did a test and the stove ran an hour (Quad 1200) without a problem. This year I bought a bigger (1300VA) unit and moved the 750VA unit to my computer.

I haven't tested the run time yet. Maybe this weekend.


Anyway, it is a calculated risk. What is the probability that you will loose power while you're not home? If you loose power what is the probability that it will go out immediately after you leave (as apposed to sometime later in the day).

As such, I use a programmable thermostat to shut the stove down for 4 hours during the middle of the day. Should there be a power loss after I leave for work, I'm gambling that I will be a window of time that UPS will keep the stove running.

The other alternative is a whole house automatic generator = much more expensive (albeit little risk).

 

[dmathieu]

Your right the chances are very slim that someone won't be home within a window of 4+ hours if I loss power.

Thanks for your help, TboneMan!

 

[timss13]

how about this UPS?

1500VA Dual Form Factor Small Enterprise UPS with AVR
SKU#: 5535848
Manufacturer: Belkin Components
Manufacturer Part#: F6C1500-TW-RK
List Price: $166.95
For more information: http://it.pcconnection.com/web/Shopping/Product.htm?product_id=5535848

 

[hossthehermit]

I have a direct vented MT Vernon AE, which means if I loss power I will get smoke in my house.

For that reason I would like to get a battery backup system. I am assuming that the Quadra-Fire backup solution communicates with the Pellet Stove and tells it to shut down when the battery is low. Is that correct?

I work at APC so I would like to use one of our UPSs. My concern with using an APC UPS is that if I loss power when I am not home the battery will eventually drain and the stove will not shutdown properly.

Any thought?

Thanks
Dave

Just a thought, but can't you just add 3 foot vertical and save a lot of bucks?

 

[globewyre]

I got the battery cable for the AE from the dealer. It was only $50. I just need to get a marin battery. If you have an AE this might be a cheaper option that runs longer.

 

[timss13]

do you then just connect to that battery when power is out? Can I keep it charged in the garage and then connect when it is needed? I just don't want a battery hanging out in the living room is my point.

 

[jtp10181]

Yes it is made to just hook up when needed.

dmathieu, I don't think the Quad batter b/u cable will do what you want. I think it is just made to hook up after the power goes out. Also I have not heard of it sensing when the batter is low, it would probably just run till its dead. The stove would run a LONG time on a good deep cycle marine battery though.

 

[dsnedegar3]

The AE will automatically switch over to the battery so you can have it plugged in automatically -- from the manual

F. Battery Back-up System (Optional)
The appliance has been designed to operate on an optional
battery back-up system. If you have frequent power
outages in your region, hook the appliance up to a 12 volt
battery and it will automatically switch to battery power in
the event of a power failure. There will be a battery icon
that appears on your wall control to let you know you are
now operating on battery power.
Once you are operating on battery power, you must
manually light the fire in the appliance as it will no longer
automatically light. Use only approved fire starting gel to
start the fire. The high burn rate is no longer available
on battery back-up as each level drops down one level.
For example; the high burn becomes medium high burn
and so on.

 

[mainegeek]

I have our Mt Vernon attached to 1500VA rack mount APC. We lost power for ~5-6 hours one night and when I woke in the morning the stove was stone cold. The startup part of the Mt Vernon stove uses much more energy then sustaining the fire. It is evident when the stove "starts" and the APC's load gauge goes from 0 bars to 2 bars (5 is the maximum). When the stove is started load returns back to 0 bars.

Also the Quadrafire battery cable can be connected all the time; in fact it will charge it when the power is on....

I would say 440 minutes is being EXTREMELY generous. Remember the Mt Vernon, when on battery, requires starting gel to ignite, to conserve batter life. With a UPS the stove does not realize there is no power and ignite just as usual. This will burn through the battery in no time--especially with many starts/stops to maintain the temperature. Your best bet when connected to a UPS with no power is to raise the comfort level on the thermostat to keep the stove running....

 

[dsnedegar3]

I'm expecting my Mount Vernon AE insert in January and I'm venting using our existing chimney -- I see Marine batteries at Costco for 60 bucks. We have a lot of power outages from a few seconds, to a few minutes. If the battery is connected and the stove is running, will it continue to run through the intermittent power outage - or will it shut down and require you to restart manually using the battery? Would you go UPS or marine battery?

Thanks!

 

[jtp10181]

Daves, thanks for pointing that out from the manual... guess I have not read the whole thing.

Knowing that I suspect you might loose power for a few seconds when it switches to the battery but it would sense there is already a fire in the pot and continue running. Since you have to manually light the unit when using the battery backup it keeps the fire going very low when it has reached the desired room temp so that if it gets cold again it can ramp back up without anyone having to light it manually.

 

[mainegeek]

I'm expecting my Mount Vernon AE insert in January and I'm venting using our existing chimney -- I see Marine batteries at Costco for 60 bucks. We have a lot of power outages from a few seconds, to a few minutes. If the battery is connected and the stove is running, will it continue to run through the intermittent power outage - or will it shut down and require you to restart manually using the battery? Would you go UPS or marine battery?

Thanks!

I believe that the stove will continue to run uninterrupted when you lose power (not positive though). I do know the stove will also keep a flame during power outages so you only have to use the starting gel the initial time you start it after the power goes out.

I hooked up the stove to a UPS because it was recommended that the stove be plugged into a surge protector or GFCI outlet. I work in a Data Center which is entirely protected by some massive UPS and a gas generator. We had no need for a rackmount UPS so it was sitting in a box at work for 2 years--so I asked politely if I could utilize it! If I had to pay for the UPS (~$800) I probably wouldn't have gotten one for the stove. But since it was free and does a much better job at cleaning the power then a GFCI or surge protector I decided to go that route.

I have the battery cable for the stove and still plan on eventually buying a marine battery for the stove..... if you have a spare UPS it wouldn't hurt to hook up. If you don't have one then I would just get the battery cable and a marine battery. The nice thing with the marine battery is you can buy a few and swap them as needed. Anybody try in series? I'm guessing the charging circuit probably couldn't handle it.

If you get an UPS make sure it is able to handle the start-up phase of the stove which requires about 5 amps (~575VA). Anything less then 900-1000VA is not worth your trouble since it will provide little to no battery time

 

[coryrhonda]

hook them in paralel if they are twelve volt batts. you can hook in series if they are six volt batts.m with the batts connected and power gos out it stays running if was running and will run longer and will drop the clinker and refill the pot and give a message to manually light, ignighter is 115volt AC. If call temp is reached it will do a maint. low burn till it gets cold or needs to drop a clinker. If power returns it automaticaly contines like the power never went out. It won"t charge the batt. wish it did. make sure the batt says it is ok to store indoors and near fire before you put it by a flame sorce. I have yet to find a wet or agm(gel) batt. that says you can. even ventless batteries have to vent or will bust in temp changes. ran my cable out outside air vent and batts are outside in batt box.

 

[gwesleyr]

I have a Mount Vernon AE that saved my butt during the power outages resulting from the New England ice storm. We were without power for 7 days - Friday to Thursday. I had planned to buy the battery backup cable but never got around to it. The stove shop where I bought it was without power too, and I figured by the time they re-opened and I got back there they would be out of them anyhow. So I checked out the connector and saw it had 2 spade connectors on the back. I rigged up a pair of wires w/connectors, unhokked the wires from the connectors, and hooked up it up to my 12v RV battery. It would run almost 24 hours before needing a charge. I borrowed a couple more batteries from a friend, charged them up at another friend's house who had a generator, and kept toasty warm through this whole mess.

MV owners, save yourself $30-$50 and make your own cable - Get 2 Fork connectors for the battery end (assuming your deep cycle battery has wing nuts), 2 fully insulated male disconnect terminals, find some wire lying around the house and you are good2go.

I would like to know if it actually charges the battery when AC is restored though.

 

[eric_s]

[quote author="NHTimberFrame" date="1229935423"]

MV owners, save yourself $30-$50 and make your own cable - Get 2 Fork connectors for the battery end (assuming your deep cycle battery has wing nuts), 2 fully insulated male disconnect terminals, find some wire lying around the house and you are good2go.

quote]

That is exactly what I was planning to do, but being a new stove I didn't want to mess anything up by playing around. Figured if we lost power I would throw something together. After the storm hit you guys up north, I actually got my multimeter out to check the polarity of the connector. I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of your hook-up if you had one.

 

[maineheat]

I've done the same thing as NHTimberFrame and it works beautifully! Some cheap male spade connectors, a pair of replacement battery terminal clamps ($2.50), and some 12 gauge romex and I was in business. While I haven't had a real outage, I've tested it with manual lighting and run it for 3 hours which didn't drop the voltage much. Since I've run the cable to the basement this works good and the battery is out of sight. If your going to run the cable far away you might want to check voltage drop and upsize a few gauges of wire.

This is also in addition to the APC 1400 that I'm using as a surge strip/quick power outage buffer. Which will run the ignitor but really draws the watts out of UPS.

All in all save yourself the $50 on the Quad cable.

 

[coryrhonda]

no, it will not charge the batteries when AC power is restored