More buying a splitter questions

[clearblue16]

So I have only used an iron and oak 26 ton rental splitter that had a 10ish horsepower engine and a 12 second cycle time....I want to buy my own now....it seems there is the basic class, 22 to 27 ton with a 6ish horsepower engine and a 19 second cycle time and then another class which is usually higher tonage but more importantly a higher hp and lower cycle time which is what I am used to....I am leaning towards the cheaper class but since j have only used a beefier rental model I am curious....is the higher horsepower necessary besides from cycle time or is the Troy bilt lowes special going to serve me fine? There is a 500 to 800 dollar price jump to bigger engines....I split a lot of wood, sometimes by myself sometimes with a helper...has anybody used a low power and a high power splitter and care share their thoughts?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have a small 110V electric splitter. It rates 5, maybe 6 tons. It split almost everything I've thrown at it. Maybe as high as 90% of the wood I scrounge. A 22+ ton machine should only split more faster. If you have some it doesn't split, would it be bad to cut it into slices and burn them like that?

This spring I plan on picking up a 22 ton from TSC.

Matt

 

[LLigetfa]

The higher HP is needed with higher GPM pumps for faster cycle times. There is no benefit to more HP if you don't have a higher GPM pump.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Cycle times to me are not important. I don't even know what mine is but will tell you mine is an old MTD 20 ton that will split horizontal or vertical. Horizontal splitting to me is a total waste so I only want vertical. This 20 ton splitter has a 5 hp Briggs engine and we have split a lot of wood; many, many cords. One year we split about 30 cords. In all this time we found only one piece that it would not split. It was a gnarly old elm. I probably could have split it by monkeying around but it just was not worth it to me so I threw that one piece on the brush pile.

If you are not familiar, the MTD and Huskee are basically the same splitter but I think they've now gone to a 22 ton model.

What do we split with this machine? At present it is mostly ash with some elm, soft maple and cherry. In the past we've split hard maple, box elder, beech, white oak, red oak, pin oak, white pine, red pine, etc. Some I've probably forgotten. The point is, only one little piece of elm gave me a problem.

The splitter is excellent in the vertical position as I can sit down and split wood all day if necessary without having to lift one log. I simply roll the log onto the butt plate using my left hand. The right hand runs the control lever and throws the splits onto the pile. Last year I split 9 cord; not sure how much there will be this year.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm an impatient man so cycle time is important to me. Unfortunately I'm also very frugal so was not prepared to pay the premium for a faster splitter. What I did was to short stop the return to save on cycle time. Works good for a one man operation.

 

[highmark800]

I purchased a Speeco (huskee) 22 ton this fall and split about 5 cords in three days. paid around $1000.00 for it. Love it.

 

[Gooserider]

Cycle time is a function of pump GPM and cylinder diameter - the more GPM's a pump can move, the faster the time on a given size cylinder. The bigger the cylinder, the slower the time for a given size pump. It takes a certain minimum horsepower to turn a given size pump, less and the engine will stall under heavy load, more is just a waste of fuel...

Tonnage ratings are a function of pressure and cylinder diameter, and are generally overstated by most manufacturers.

There are certain standard combos that all give about a 15 second cycle time -

5.5 hp / 11gpm / 4" - 20 ton
7 hp / 14gpm / 4.5" - 25 ton (rare)
8-9 hp / 16gpm / 5" - 30 ton

Some of the MTD splitters (i.e. Troy-built) are cheating a bit by using the 5.5hp / 11gpm power train with a 5" cylinder, which still gives the 30 ton capacity, but makes for a 20+ second cycle time.

Some of the commercial splitters will go the other way and put a bigger pump & engine on a smaller cylinder to get a faster cycle time - sounds like your rental unit did this.

I would stick with the 20 ton / 11 gpm unit, as these seem quite capable of splitting just about anything you can get onto their platform w/o power equipment, the 30 ton units are nice but a bit on the overkill side. (In retrospect I would have been just as happy w/ a 20 ton)

As posted earlier, I tend to find that the other good way to improve the cycle time is to "short cycle" the unit - ignore the auto-return, and bring the wedge down just far enough to make a split, and then back up just far enough to slide the next round into place - 4-6" of cycle is a lot faster than 24"....

Gooserider

 

[tfdchief]

So I have only used an iron and oak 26 ton rental splitter that had a 10ish horsepower engine and a 12 second cycle time....I want to buy my own now....it seems there is the basic class, 22 to 27 ton with a 6ish horsepower engine and a 19 second cycle time and then another class which is usually higher tonage but more importantly a higher hp and lower cycle time which is what I am used to....I am leaning towards the cheaper class but since j have only used a beefier rental model I am curious....is the higher horsepower necessary besides from cycle time or is the Troy bilt lowes special going to serve me fine? There is a 500 to 800 dollar price jump to bigger engines....I split a lot of wood, sometimes by myself sometimes with a helper...has anybody used a low power and a high power splitter and care share their thoughts?

I have the Brave (Iron & Oak made) 22 Ton SR0622 and I love it. http://www.braveproducts.com/itemde...tegory&categoryid=103&parentid;=&searchtext;=

 

[cre73]

I have the 26ton MTD 6.5hp and I am more than happy with it. Haven't found anything yet that it won't split.

 

[SWI Don]

If you want to short stroke your splitters, go to your local farm supply and get some cylinder stops for you ram cylinder. If you are splitting 16" wood you set the stops up for 17-18" opening instead of a 24" + opening. You can still use your return detent and have the benefit of less waiting for he ram to get to the wood. If you also have a hard limit as to what size wood you can use in your stove, you can set it so big wood doesn't fit in the splitter.

Here is an example of what you are looking for. They are made of aluminum so they are non abrasive on your cylinder rod.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricu...with-finger-tab-1-1-8-in-to-1-1-2-in--1832997

Don

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I say don't get hung up on the stroke or cycle time as you can control a lot of that yourself. For example, I rarely let my ram go all the way up and on a lot of wood I don't have to push it all the way through the log.

For some real fun, make some kindling. You can do it by moving the ram probably not more than 3-4" all the time you are making the kindling. It is fun to make and extremely fast once you get the hang of it.

 

[smokinj]

I say don't get hung up on the stroke or cycle time as you can control a lot of that yourself. For example, I rarely let my ram go all the way up and on a lot of wood I don't have to push it all the way through the log.

For some real fun, make some kindling. You can do it by moving the ram probably not more than 3-4" all the time you are making the kindling. It is fun to make and extremely fast once you get the hang of it.

+1 most woods need less than a 6in. stroke, if cycle time is the main focus its time for a timber wolf 3500.00 bucks

 

[EKLawton]

like they all said "don't get carried away with cycle times" , the bigger question would be the height of the controls. the one i use has me bent just enough to make it hurt.

 

[Gooserider]

like they all said "don't get carried away with cycle times" , the bigger question would be the height of the controls. the one i use has me bent just enough to make it hurt.

I would say that control position is arguably less relevant than cycle time... It is possible to improve the cycle time, but that takes "major surgery" as to do so requires major parts replacement - you have to either replace the cylinder with a smaller one, (which also lowers your tonnage rating) or increase the size of BOTH the engine and pump. There are also definite limits of how much practical improvement you can get on that route. Of these options, the cylinder swap would probably cost on the order of $150-200, while the engine and pump swap would be 2-3 times that, depending on the quality of parts used....

OTOH, it is relatively easy to redo the plumbing, and relocate the controls to any location you'd like - you will likely need a few fittings, and maybe a new hose or two, and possibly some brackets depending on what you are doing, but the cost would probably be under $100, even going to the local hydraulic shop rather than doing on-line shopping for your parts....

Gooserider

 

[SlyFerret]

My dad and I were looking at building a splitter yesterday. After finding parts on craigslist, ebay, and other online vendors, we priced it all out.

In the end... we realized that it would probably be more cost effective to just buy a splitter from TSC.

What we built would have probably been heavier duty, but... most likely unnecessarily so.

-SF

 

[Gooserider]

My dad and I were looking at building a splitter yesterday. After finding parts on craigslist, ebay, and other online vendors, we priced it all out.

In the end... we realized that it would probably be more cost effective to just buy a splitter from TSC.

What we built would have probably been heavier duty, but... most likely unnecessarily so.

-SF

I'm not terribly surprised, as this seems to be the general experience - unless one already has, or can get at little or no cost, a substantial amount of the needed hardware, building your own from scratch doesn't seem cost effective. It can be good from a learning experience standpoint, or as a fun project, but that is a different equation all together...


Gooserider

 

[blel]

If you want to short stroke your splitters, go to your local farm supply and get some cylinder stops for you ram cylinder. If you are splitting 16" wood you set the stops up for 17-18" opening instead of a 24" + opening. You can still use your return detent and have the benefit of less waiting for he ram to get to the wood. If you also have a hard limit as to what size wood you can use in your stove, you can set it so big wood doesn't fit in the splitter.

Here is an example of what you are looking for. They are made of aluminum so they are non abrasive on your cylinder rod.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricu...with-finger-tab-1-1-8-in-to-1-1-2-in--1832997

Don

Do you just stack these up on the rod depending on length of wood you have?

 

[EKLawton]

like they all said "don't get carried away with cycle times" , the bigger question would be the height of the controls. the one i use has me bent just enough to make it hurt.

I would say that control position is arguably less relevant than cycle time... It is possible to improve the cycle time, but that takes "major surgery" as to do so requires major parts replacement - you have to either replace the cylinder with a smaller one, (which also lowers your tonnage rating) or increase the size of BOTH the engine and pump. There are also definite limits of how much practical improvement you can get on that route. Of these options, the cylinder swap would probably cost on the order of $150-200, while the engine and pump swap would be 2-3 times that, depending on the quality of parts used....

OTOH, it is relatively easy to redo the plumbing, and relocate the controls to any location you'd like - you will likely need a few fittings, and maybe a new hose or two, and possibly some brackets depending on what you are doing, but the cost would probably be under $100, even going to the local hydraulic shop rather than doing on-line shopping for your parts....

Gooserider

I should have said "that the times are all about the same for the same size model"(slow). The part about the controls is not just the lever but the bed size to, you cant raise that very easy, and if you have to bend over to hold the round or split it will add up buy the end of the day. to raise the bed you can put on bigger tires but then you have to cut and re-weld the pivot point for the vertical part.

 

[Gooserider]

like they all said "don't get carried away with cycle times" , the bigger question would be the height of the controls. the one i use has me bent just enough to make it hurt.

I would say that control position is arguably less relevant than cycle time... It is possible to improve the cycle time, but that takes "major surgery" as to do so requires major parts replacement - you have to either replace the cylinder with a smaller one, (which also lowers your tonnage rating) or increase the size of BOTH the engine and pump. There are also definite limits of how much practical improvement you can get on that route. Of these options, the cylinder swap would probably cost on the order of $150-200, while the engine and pump swap would be 2-3 times that, depending on the quality of parts used....

OTOH, it is relatively easy to redo the plumbing, and relocate the controls to any location you'd like - you will likely need a few fittings, and maybe a new hose or two, and possibly some brackets depending on what you are doing, but the cost would probably be under $100, even going to the local hydraulic shop rather than doing on-line shopping for your parts....

Gooserider

I should have said "that the times are all about the same for the same size model"(slow). The part about the controls is not just the lever but the bed size to, you cant raise that very easy, and if you have to bend over to hold the round or split it will add up buy the end of the day. to raise the bed you can put on bigger tires but then you have to cut and re-weld the pivot point for the vertical part.

True, but the "industry standard" for bed length is a 25" working area w/ a 24" cylinder. Height varies, but to me that was a non-issue since I am a "vertical only" person... OTOH I did reconfigure the control position as I found the stock position awkward. Probably the biggest and most successful modification I've done to the unit.

SWI Don:
If you want to short stroke your splitters, go to your local farm supply and get some cylinder stops for you ram cylinder. If you are splitting 16” wood you set the stops up for 17-18” opening instead of a 24” + opening. You can still use your return detent and have the benefit of less waiting for he ram to get to the wood. If you also have a hard limit as to what size wood you can use in your stove, you can set it so big wood doesn’t fit in the splitter.

Here is an example of what you are looking for. They are made of aluminum so they are non abrasive on your cylinder rod.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricu...-with-finger-tab-1-1-8-in-to-1-1-2-in—1832997

Don

I've thought about those, but I wasn't sure just how well they'd work on the style wedge mount I have where the end of the piston is turned down slightly, and fits into a socket with a cross bolt to hold it. it doesn't seem like there is a lot of ledge to catch the bottom side of the stop... (Also the TSC description didn't say how much they actually limited travel per stop...)

The "hard limit" concept also works, but I find that I would rather split everything while I have it in my hands, and then cut it down later - saves a second trip to the splitting station.

What I have done is drilled some marker dots in my splitter beam to give me a crude measuring stick (a dot every two inches) Which I use both to tell me where to stop the ram on each return stroke, and to tell me if a split is overlength. I end up throwing my splits into three piles as I make them - The main pile for done "ready to stack" splits, and two smaller piles, one for "over length" splits that I will take to my cutdown rack, make one swipe with the chainsaw to get them to length (and then stack) and overly short "chunk wood" that I keep in a separate bin for use in shoulder season and the like.

Gooserider

 

[Ducati996]

Someone mentioned earlier vertical isnt important - well when you deal with 36" + rounds, it comes in handy sectioning them off to manageable size....IMHO of course

I use the tractor backhoe w/thumb to place them near the splitter -

(broken image removed)

(broken image removed)

 

[SWI Don]

If you want to short stroke your splitters, go to your local farm supply and get some cylinder stops for you ram cylinder. If you are splitting 16" wood you set the stops up for 17-18" opening instead of a 24" + opening. You can still use your return detent and have the benefit of less waiting for he ram to get to the wood. If you also have a hard limit as to what size wood you can use in your stove, you can set it so big wood doesn't fit in the splitter.

Here is an example of what you are looking for. They are made of aluminum so they are non abrasive on your cylinder rod.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricu...with-finger-tab-1-1-8-in-to-1-1-2-in--1832997

Don

Do you just stack these up on the rod depending on length of wood you have?

Yes that is how it works. They come in a set with a variety of thicknesses. They lightly grip the rod and travel with the ram / wedge through the cycle.

Gooserider,

I don't know what to tell you besides try them and take em back if they don't work. You could weld on some pads to increase the bearing area on the back of your wedge if it does end up being a problem.

Don

 

[SWI Don]

Someone mentioned earlier vertical isnt important - well when you deal with 36" + rounds, it comes in handy sectioning them off to manageable size....IMHO of course

I use the tractor backhoe w/thumb to place them near the splitter -

(broken image removed)

(broken image removed)

Vertical isn't important if you have a log lifting device. Different strokes for different folks.

If you are looking at a sub $2000 splitter vertical is about your only option unless your are building your own.

Don

 

[SWI Don]

My dad and I were looking at building a splitter yesterday. After finding parts on craigslist, ebay, and other online vendors, we priced it all out.

In the end... we realized that it would probably be more cost effective to just buy a splitter from TSC.

What we built would have probably been heavier duty, but... most likely unnecessarily so.

-SF

Building a basic splitter is about like building a basic car trailer. There is no way you can build one for what you can buy it for. Both are highly competitive segments that require lots of volume, be inexpensive to fabricate, and integration of components to make money.

Now if you want a Timberwolf TW-5/6/7 type of splitter with log lifts, multi-way wedges, fast cycle times, etc, then you can build cheaper than buying.

Don

 

[Ducati996]

Someone mentioned earlier vertical isnt important - well when you deal with 36" + rounds, it comes in handy sectioning them off to manageable size....IMHO of course

I use the tractor backhoe w/thumb to place them near the splitter -

Vertical isn't important if you have a log lifting device. Different strokes for different folks.

If you are looking at a sub $2000 splitter vertical is about your only option unless your are building your own.

Don

If your using a log lifting hydraulic unit, that would prevent you from having vertical functionality, plus they would be over $2k (not sure who set the budget)

However the unit I have is less than $2k and gives you both vertical/horizontal...just go on Northern tool's website

Hope this helps

 

[SWI Don]

Someone mentioned earlier vertical isnt important - well when you deal with 36" + rounds, it comes in handy sectioning them off to manageable size....IMHO of course

I use the tractor backhoe w/thumb to place them near the splitter -

Vertical isn't important if you have a log lifting device. Different strokes for different folks.

If you are looking at a sub $2000 splitter vertical is about your only option unless your are building your own.

Don

If your using a log lifting hydraulic unit, that would prevent you from having vertical functionality, plus they would be over $2k (not sure who set the budget)

However the unit I have is less than $2k and gives you both vertical/horizontal...just go on Northern tool's website

Hope this helps

I threw the $2k number out as level where you can build your own splitter pretty easily. Most all of the horizontal / vertical units are under that as I stated. At least we agree on that. The cheapest way to get a basic splitter is to buy it.

Now my homebuilt unit DID cost under $2K with a log lift & a 9sec round trip cycle time. All hydraulics were new and steel was purchased from the local scrap yard. I have ~$2.5k in it now with a hydraulic 4 way wedge. Can you buy one off the shelf for that? No you are looking at $5k+ The only segment of log splitter where you can build more inexpensively than buy is the optioned out commercial splitters.

Just looked like you were contradicting me when we pretty much said the same thing.

Don